String Theory: A Puppetmaster's Guide *NEW*

These changes really did wonders for the jobs they did reach (mostly, sorry NIN) and were coming so quickly that it seemed easy for them to implement. Oh well, maybe they will surprise us with whatever TVR brings.

At this point PUP (and other pet jobs) need some pretty fundamental changes to have any chance of becoming relevant outside of niche situations, unfortunately. Personally, I'd say PUP would become quite competitive (but not too strong) with the following changes, some of which have been brought up before:

- make BRD songs and COR rolls affect pets, even if only at half potency, or give all pet jobs a Spirit Link-type ability, even if this means matons no longer enjoy faux "immunity" to dispel—though SMN's would need to be spammable because Avatars are so fragile (changing Maintenance, Spur and Avatar's Favor to transfer buffs would make some sense)

- with the above in mind, change Beast Roll to Pet: TP Bonus and Drachen Roll to a general Conserve TP effect that could stack with Miser's, perhaps; I'd almost prefer if Puppet and Comp Roll were left unchanged due to the dual effects, but it'd probably make sense to change them to Pet: MBD (or FC) and Pet: DT since the old effects could already be replicated to an extent

- change Turbo Chargers to JA haste so the Automaton can actually reach the delay cap

- add a total of Pet: Haste+15-16% to the 4th augment slots across multiple Mpaca pieces or at least Pet: Haste+10% to the 3rd on Neo Animator (I'd prefer this over Nyame D having it, personally)

- remove the skillchain AI from Inhibitors and instead add that particular skillchaining behavior to Speedloader 1 (while leaving Speedloader 2 unchanged)

- update Automaton WSs or finally add some new ones, since we haven't had any additions since WotG

- improve mage AI for Automatons and increase base MACC and FC

There are some other things I'd like to see changed (a buff/support maton would be great, but unrealistic, unless they rework Stormwaker head to focus on buffing the party and debuffing like a real RDM), but at least with the above PUP would become pretty viable. And the changes wouldn't be too taxing on SE's limited dev capabilities.

It would be cool if rdm maton wouldnt nuke unless you have at least one loudspeaker equiped, and if mana channeler could actually give fc.

Amplifiers give a ton of FC for nukes, but not for anything else. Would be nice if Automaton heads gave base FC depending on type, i.e. Stormwaker highest as it's a RDM, Soulsoother a good chunk for efficient healing and Spiritreaver just a small amount due to Amplifiers.

Welp, yet again no Pet: Haste on anything, unfortunately. At least Neo Animator got SAD+5% which makes it the strongest choice for any physical DD automaton for sure.

Rank: 30
[1]Automaton: Accuracy+30 Mag. Acc.+30
[2]Automaton: HP+60
[3]Automaton: Special attack damage+5%

Schere Earring also became even more amazing:

Rank: 30
[1]Accuracy+15
[2]Attack+15
[3]"Store TP"+5

Mpaca's Cap is also pretty uncontested top tier for WS now, I'd say. Very, very good for TP as well with DA+5%/TA+3% and massive Accuracy.

Rank: 30
[1]Attack+30
[2]Skillchain dmg. +15%
[3]Accuracy+15 Mag. Acc.+15
[4]"Double Attack"+5%

Sadly, only master augments on Mpaca and Nyame path D is nothing but Pet DT, so only really interesting for bruiser or OD matons, unfortunately.

Overall I have pretty mixed feelings about the r30 augments. Some are incredible, others are forgettable and some are just plain headscratchers. Regen on Mpaca body, DEX on Mpaca hands, AGI on Mpaca feet? Really? They couldn't have added anything Pet related instead?

I had the same thoughts about "Why not add a pet stat?" for both Mpaca and Gleti for some of the slots that are just... meh.

The silliness on the stat+5 pieces really hurt since that locks you out of 2 potential augment options, whereas i could say nyame did it right with stats+10 or stat+15, then like you said there's the random regen on both gleti's an mpaca, though honestly im annoyed that nyame D is all the same augment, couldnt be bothered to redeem that path any just make it an i guess okay "hybrid" set for both master and pet DT wise

The pet DT on nyame is nice if you want to mix auto tank DT and master DT for both high survivability i guess, but two of the nyame pièces could have rep heyoka for haste but SE said nope lol

Nyame D has its uses, of course, but it's really, really difficult to justify even for career PUPs who don't care about other jobs as Nyame B is also the strongest choice for HF and RF in the body/hand/feet slots.

The path A with crit rate tho might be considered over B for some crit ws's ?

Mpaca head has more STR, more Attack, 4% base Crit + ~3% Crit via TP bonus, DA and TA, so even with the PDL that'd be difficult for Nyame A to beat and you'd need really strong buffs.

Mpaca legs have more STR, more Attack, 1% more PDL, less Crit but TA+4%, so I can't see Nyame A beating those meaningfully either.

If it were Crit damage on Nyame A instead it'd change things, but sadly that's not the case.

Has there been any discussion/testing of Sroda earring on pup?

I'm having trouble finding any.

What kind of testing?

Master Double attack?

Automaton Melee DMG for WS? etc.

It's a very good option for Multi hit weaponskills for the master and BiS for Automaton melee weaponskills.

weaponskill damage comparisons I think would be most useful no?

guess I'll try it out.

Way back from R0 Neo Animator vs. Animator P +1 testing the Attributes+20 did a bit more for WS damage, but the difference was relatively small.

So for Valoredge white damage and WS the Sroda Earring should be pretty solid. But given other TP earring options you'll likely only ever use it for pet burning.

Was searching fcr the discussion for puppet blackmage bursting but couldn't find it. Finally made some room for magic pet gear and was messing with it.
Stormwalker Head- Stormwalker Frame. I was surprised it was casting stoneskin on me. I thought for some reason that was a separate attachment (Shock Absorber) and with a earth maneuver. I was just going off they Toy Theatre set ups but wasn't sure if there was something different now. Was messing with double ice, dark but only seen a slight difference in damage compared to light, ice, dark.

Any input is appreciated.

I noticed with mana channelers it sometimes likes to miss the burst window. Not sure if this from weapons killing back to back or what.

Masquerade: Black Mage I

Attachments: Optic fiber, Optic fiber II, Tactical processor, Ice maker, Loudspeaker IV, Loudspeaker III, Mana chaneller, Mana channeler II, Mana tank IV, Mana tank III, Economizer, Mana conserver
Warning: Overload risk.
Maneuvers: Light, Ice, Dark

The Automaton will eat an Ice Maneuver every time it nukes with Ice Maker, and a Dark Maneuver with Economizer to regain MP. Can swap out Economizer + Mana conserver for Heatsink + Mana tank.
Where this would be useful: Set up for maximum damage single nukes, anything that requires magic damage. (All endgame content).

Masquerade: Black Mage II

Attachments: Optic fiber, Optic fiber II, Amplifier, Amplifier II, Loudspeaker IV, Ice Maker, Mana channeler, Mana channeler II, Mana tank IV, Mana tank III, Economizer, Mana convserver
Warning: Overload risk.
Maneuvers: Light, Ice, Dark

The Automaton will eat an Ice Maneuver every time it nukes with Ice Maker, and a Dark Maneuver with Economizer to regain MP. Can swap out Economizer + Mana conserver for Heatsink + Mana tank.
Where this would be useful: Focusing on magic burst, this setup is best for following skillchains. (CP, All endgame content).

I normally use the following with ice/ice/ice for bursts with the following loadout:

stormwaker frame
spiritreaver head
loudspeaker iv
ice maker
amplifier
amplifier ii
arcanoclutch
optic fiber ii
optic fiber
arcanic cell
arcanic cell ii
mana tank iii
mana tank iv
mana conserver

For MP, I just deactivate, and reactivate. Here is some results vs Apex Bats

Yes this is what I was looking for thank you. Used red and whm matons but wasn't familiar with the blm setup. Didn't realize I had the wrong head equipped. Was magic bursting but using SSkin as well. Was trying to figure out what occult acumen attachments do for the maton?

Same as mages version, gives TP based on the cost of a spell, doesnt do much for the auto especially as it's tied to light maneuvers, doubly so if you're just deactivating and reactivating frequently

If im doing math right and OF isnt improving cells any you're getting roughly 80 TP off a blizzard V at base, so unless im missing something probably better to swap those to mana channelers or a heatsink if overloads are a concern as it looks like you got water capacity to spare

Arcanoclutch is a mistake and should be something else. Don't look too far into it.

Regarding what should go in its place, I use Kenkonken so overloading isn't as much of a concern.

From old testing, I usually got the best damage results with the following setup (add in Tranquilizers if MACC is an issue). Not 100% sure if results would still be the same with newer gear, but I doubt it has changed.

- Ice Maker
- Amplifier 1+2
- Arcanoclutch 2
- Loudspeaker 3
- Heat Sink
- Mana Tank 1+3+4 (to reduce Deactivate frequency)
- Optic Fiber 1+2
- Turbo Charger 2 (recasts, but largely unimportant)

For dark resistant targets to prevent Aspir spam:

- Scanner
- Arcanoclutch 1
- rest is the same

Don't ever use Mana Channelers as they break the Amplifier bursting AI. Arcanic Cells also don't really do anything relevant as the BLMaton can't make good use of the TP.

Well that explains why bursting was always a chore for me

Mana channelers seems to mess with the bursting A.I from what I noticed. Wasn't sure about Arcanoclutch being magic damage vs magic attack difference. Wish there was more variety of atttachments like the dd and tank matons.
Was getting 60-75k bursts Double Ice, and Dark messing around on Dire Locus Bats. No puppet roll or geo with above slightly average pet magic attack gear. So I can see higher numbers possible. Will mess around with it some more. Thank you to everyone for the input.

There's no real point to using a Dark Maneuver for MP since you can always just Repair or Deactivate/Activate to restore it. With Heatsink, Cooldown and Overload- JSE you can triple Ice all the way even if you don't have a Kenkonken.

If you're worried you can also replace Turbo Charger 2 with Condenser and go Water > Ice > Ice > Ice.

I was thinking that a few pages ago you guys gave me some very interesting setups (Attachments, suggested gear, maneuvers to keep up and swap) to be able to solo RP on V20 T3s, but I see no reason why that wouldn't work on V25 as well.

I'd love to make those posts readily available even in the future, for myself and other people, as this thread rightfully keeps to host new topics and new posts.

How do you suggest we could create an "index" to make those posts/guidelines easily accessible to everyone in the future?

Maybe create a new thread and ask some mod to make it sticky in the PUP subforum? I can't think of anything else.

Adding it to BGwiki for the respective NMs would probably give it the most visibility and longevity overall. Anything on FFXIAH is likely to get buried over time.

I like to see some changes to haste also.
Not sure if this is just me but I like to see the maneuevers timer increased at start and or shorter cast durations. Always feels starting and having them drop so quick is slow. Once you get going it is fine.
Still wondering why they just couldn't give Luzah pet oriented rolls at least.

Yeah, it'd be nice if maneuvers started at 3 mins and capped out at 5 mins (or were just straight up 5 mins like runes). Since they don't even animation lock us anymore there's no real reason for SE to keep the initial duration so short.

Wouldn't the weaponskill wall as well as the inability to build tp from melee (for a valor+ss od) be a bit of a damper in v25 t3's?

I thought the inability to build TP from melee was a thing for Ongo-only.
Here we were talking about Arebati and Xevioso, do they have that mechanic as well?

In which case yeah, would have to gear around regain or something and I'm not sure if it could be viable.

The WS wall would be no issue at all, with the builds we discussed a few pages ago the Automaton uses different WS everytime to create SCs so that resets the WS wall every time.