Dev Tracker - Discussion

“I did a thing that purposefully left my tank in orange HP and he died to a TP move see the content is too hard”

There's a reason Odyssey hits hard. It is designed to be anti-RMT. The enemies hit hard so RMT can't just keep on making characters and flood the economy with stacks of Lustreless. You have to play the game properly, get better trusts, and play with others to become strong enough to earn the right to enter Odyssey solo without trusts dying left and right. The content isn't hard, but it is definitely not designed for returning players to jump in to right away. I'm glad it is that way.

It's design keeps players out. Obviously.

That's called counter-intuitive.

We want more bodies in endgame but our design purposely limits people getting into endgame! What do we do! Conundrum.

Yes but in terms of being "game changing", loxotic mace+1 lets you use WAR in Gigel and Henwen (gog too easy to bother mentioning) so it changes the game by enabling WAR to be used for things. I wasn't trying to say it cannot be killed without a WAR.

Ngai I half expected someone would say can be done as MNK PUP. Are there any videos of this?

idk, I'm not convinced. The DPS check is quite high and Ragnarok is *** - what WS would you use?

I thought you would appreciate me being pedantic and literal.

You're still missing my point here. I'm not saying I expected that DRG+MNK+NIN or whatever should have got weapons which changed meta or made them equal to DRK+SAM, but closed the gap more. DRK+SAM shouldn't have got the two best weapons again.

Relics are irrelevant at this point, and so are Mythics really - sure Gaxe is one of the better ones, but it isn't better than Chango. Empyrean obviously WAR only got 1h axe... I still wish WAR got a better gaxe out of Prime.

Fair enough, both videos make the DPS check look even weaker than I thought, and still wholly dependent on the quality of the WHM.

Ukon would like a word with you.

Oh yeah, I got confused and thought Ukon was Mythic for a minute

I still put Naegling in "game changing" category because it allows you to use a THF for Bumba V20 when otherwise you couldn't use a THF though.

inb4 "hurr durr V20 is ez pz" - again still not the point.

Loxotic is a really nice item and it gives some great flexibility in your job setups. Same with Maxentius, Shining One, and a billion other items, including (almost) every single prime weapon. They'll open up options to change how you approach fights, or make you clear them faster.

...Still not going to allow you to beat a battle you couldn't otherwise beat.


Depends who you ask, TBH. Lots of people say the Polearm, Gun, & Bow are the best weapons. I digress though, that wasn't my point in the previous post and isn't my point here either. My point is that even if the NIN, MNK, and BST weapons did comparable damage to the WAR, DRK, and SAM weapons, they still wouldn't be invited to content because Warcry > Issekigan. I guess it would make soloing Omen on NIN more exciting, but it wouldn't change the meta one iota.

Also DRG got a completely busted prime weapon so IDK what you're talking about there. The fact that it deals piercing damage is the only possible criticism of that thing and that kinda comes with the territory of being a DRG. If they made it do slashing damage the DRGs of the world would riot.

Eiryl: "Odyssey is 6 man because otherwise mercs would take over the content"

Also Eiryl: "Odyssey is too hard for entry level characters (aka throwaway RMT characters) to do anything"


Dramatization of Eiryl's first foray into Odyssey:

I already offered a second definition that an item allows you to use a job somewhere where you otherwise couldn't/wouldn't. I agree Shining One is in there too - WAR on Xevioso, no way to use WAR without it? Also SAM for Procne and Dealan-dhe.

I really don't think it is a billion items. I think there is a definite top tier of items that are more "game changing" than others, and the prime shield sure as *** is not in there, to get back to the main point.

Lmfao take drg out of that comment. Its prime has the highest dps potential in the game. At worst it's on par with Sam. Drk got the coolest ws but a drk is still a drk.

On topic (kinda?). Primes make stuff easier but are not required. They are all toys for the diehards. None are game changing. I agree with Mal (I think? This has been going on so long I'm loosing who's making what point)

I agree with the premise that certain items change the content you can bring a specific job to and I certainly think that could be considering "game-changing" for those jobs, but that's still a bit of a stretch.

I also have never used WAR for Xevioso and rarely, if ever, use SAM for Procne or Dealan-dhe.

Prime shield definitely isn't game-changing by your definition (allowing you to do a new fight on PLD you couldn't previously slam a PLD into) so...sure I suppose.


This is...sorta my point, but backwards, a bit? I agree, primes don't change the game (largely) and they're toys for diehards. I also think basically every other item in the game is a toy (some for diehards, some not) and that none of them are particularly game-changing. By a very loose definition of game-changing and if you only consider the perspective of a single job, sure...? If you consider the wider perspective of the entire game and all jobs, no single item really enables or disables a specific win.

We've been doing Ongo lately, using 3 KI strat. Last time we did it was almost a year ago and (as I remember) back then we would BARELY kill the bird in the second KI, with like... 30 seconds left at most. This time, despite not using Bolster at all, we killed the bird with 3+ minutes left. Is it game-changing, nope we're still killing the bird in the allotted time. Sure does make the fight a whole hell of a lot easier though. Call them toys if you want, but this kind of impact really helps. One of those KI#2s, we had the DNC die with several minutes left to go and we still killed it with time to spare. Probably because of those prime weapons.

They're equally as impactful, if not more, than other items in this game. Which is to say: They're just toys for FFXI players. If it upsets you that you "have to be hardcore" to get these toys, by all means feel free to be upset. Doesn't change the fact that they're just like all the other toys you had fun collecting and playing with.

Sure, but the point still stands - the weapon allows WAR to be used for Xevioso and SAM for the other two when otherwise you couldn't use those jobs for those fights.

What do you use for Xevioso then?

You can use various jobs really.

DNC+DRG
DNC+SAM

You could probably use DNC+RNG too without issue. Especially RNG with Prime. Maybe even DNC+RDM with Prime or Mandau.

Can't see how DRG or SAM would be better than WAR with MS and Warcry, etc.

Who said they would be better? I though we were talking how we can approach the fight and succeed, not which setup is fastest.

That being said, Gae Buide DRG providing Angon could probably easily compete with WAR.

Gae Buide probably makes DRG + WAR viable for the fight as well.

DRG gets Diarmuud and Camlaan's
WAR can Impulse and Stardiver.

DRG has the added annoyance in Xeviosi of keeping his wyvern alive. You can use Spirit Link, Spirit Bond, and Steady Wing and full-time a pet DT/Absorb helm, but I've found it slightly more annoying being concerned with it's health, especially at v25. Spirit Bond can also potentially get you killed

You can't Play the Game without people and people love a carry the dead weight, few people love to waste their time gearing people and teach them how to play anyway, the design is outdated and don't fit for modern gameplay.

Probably, but WAR is at 68.75% haste without DNC, and BoxStep would be heavily missed. WAR can also gets Berserk dispelled and fall even more behind. DNC and DRG are not depended on any high cooldown JA buff, beside maybe Wyvern, but you can pop Wyvern like 2-3 times on top of having one from lobby, so you should be fine. Would still have an easy time to meet dps check probably, but DRG would probably parse twice higher total damage than WAR in that setup.

I'm going to have to watch out to see if this is an issue for me. All of my V25 Bee experience is doing RP and I am usually the last DD to go down thanks to high jump.

I haven't found that anything is problematic for my wyvern and spirit link recasts since I switched to this set.

I know people are going to say Dreki ring bad, but I'm already overcapped on DT for me. Might as well give my pet more defensive stats when I know I'm walking them into terrible fights. The A Path helmet also probably makes them call their local priest.

I'm not saying you'll die, I was just talking about the annoyance of worrying about it dying, though with RD and WC that's less of an issue. Your set looks good, and I didn't consider Dreki Ring. Personally, I prefer the emp+3 head fulltime. Once I swapped to that across my sets, I felt less worried about wyvern health. I suppose I could swap resin augment to pet DT if I wanted to be sure it was capped. It was a problem early on when doing Xevioso, probably not much of an issue for me now.

Why would Maletaru elitist use less than the optimal set up?

I see no reason to not take DNC for the extra panic heals, even if your WHM is god.

We do Xevioso with DNC+DRG, indeed. DRG does insane damage, even more than WAR in my experience.

BRD COR DRG DNC WHM PLD

We swapped one of our songs from Minuet -> Minne because the fight is not a DPS check or race at all and damage is insignificant. Our DRG does some tricks with engaging -> moving to keep his wyvern outside of conals and it survives the whole fight without much trouble.