Dev Tracker - Discussion
Dev Tracker - Discussion
I can't imagine a way to get people to quit faster than to have them run Sortie 3-4 times back-to-back in the same day.
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The confusion of people having FOMO in a min/max game like XI is hilarious to me.
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This might be a hot take, but hear me out:
You wouldn't have to do 3-4 sorties on Saturday and you would not be obligated to stack the KI's to 4 every time before entering.
You wouldn't have to do 3-4 sorties on Saturday and you would not be obligated to stack the KI's to 4 every time before entering.
Just like you don't have to do 1 Sortie a day, or even 1 Sortie a week. You're not obligated to do Sortie at all!
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Asura.Hya said: »
Just like you don't have to do 1 Sortie a day, or even 1 Sortie a week. You're not obligated to do Sortie at all!
and then you say "no ur a loser with FOMO"
And I repeat this:
Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
Its amazing how some people can happily bootlock the daily "use it or lose it" entry mechanics of Ody/Sortie.
Asura.Mcdoogle said: »
The confusion of people having FOMO in a min/max game like XI is hilarious to me.
It should be, because it is. They can't help themselves though. Brain chemistry is a ***.
You even think about skipping a daily and you get to hear that voice. It's an exceedingly rare skill to tell it, I don't care. And to mean it, rarer still.
"No ones forcing you to do Ody/Sortie every day"
"If SE let entry items stack, you would be stuck in 2-hour long queue when you enter on Saturday"
Both quotes come from the same people. Makes no sense.
"If SE let entry items stack, you would be stuck in 2-hour long queue when you enter on Saturday"
Both quotes come from the same people. Makes no sense.
Literally all you have to do is stop doing daily sortie, and work on it at your own rate or the rate your group is cool with. Your character isn't going to disappear if you take longer to achieve your goals.
The idea that you have to get the most possible out of every real day to maximize timers is a self-imposed restriction that doesn't actually do you any good. FFXI [should be] a marathon not a sprint, much like any other long-term goal.
If you did daily odyssey and didn't suck, you'd have been done with odyssey well over a year ago anyway. There's a hard cap to what you can get out of it.
The idea that you have to get the most possible out of every real day to maximize timers is a self-imposed restriction that doesn't actually do you any good. FFXI [should be] a marathon not a sprint, much like any other long-term goal.
If you did daily odyssey and didn't suck, you'd have been done with odyssey well over a year ago anyway. There's a hard cap to what you can get out of it.
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It's a lot easier to dispel the idea that there is no one around to play with, if we can see the populations of our servers alive and active in something open world like Besieged. I'm sure it will be botted up asap just like domain dragons, but something new and large population centric would be a nice change of pace.
I'm looking forward to seeing if the servers can handle it. Idk if they ever replaced the servers like they said they would, but it would be nice to see any improvements in the future. I'd like them to actually do the maintenance in maintenance mode.
It doesn't seem like they're doing it based on how consistently laggy sortie is with only 6 people during my regular play time.
I'm looking forward to seeing if the servers can handle it. Idk if they ever replaced the servers like they said they would, but it would be nice to see any improvements in the future. I'd like them to actually do the maintenance in maintenance mode.
It doesn't seem like they're doing it based on how consistently laggy sortie is with only 6 people during my regular play time.
I do Sortie once a week. Maybe twice. I went four months this year not doing it at all. Anyone who is getting super upset that they missed a day have an addiction with this game. Go touch grass. Play something else. You don't have to use your key item every single day. Jesus.
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What would be fun is to be able to stack sortie tag up to 3 like omen, then using all 3 at once for triple the reward on one run. So, like dyna, twice a week plus an extra tag for unlock/extra run… will free a lot of time for other content that have been discarded as a result of sortie daily grind
Options are bad, got it.
Let me dig up all those angry posts about how Canteen's didnt need to be stackable, Omen being a daily 6-man was perfect as is. If you miss an Omen one day who cares, go touch grass etc etc.
Oh wait, there are none. Go figure.
Let me dig up all those angry posts about how Canteen's didnt need to be stackable, Omen being a daily 6-man was perfect as is. If you miss an Omen one day who cares, go touch grass etc etc.
Oh wait, there are none. Go figure.
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I never said options would be a negative thing. I questioned the logic of people who claim to be so busy they can't commit an hour or two a day, but the same person claims they'd happily spend 7-9 hours twice/week on the same event.
If someone's gonna claim it takes 2.5 hours/day, it will take 5 hours every two days, or 7.5 hours every 3 days. For someone who claims to want to be efficient with their tags, that means you're going to spend basically every waking hour you're not at work or asleep on a single day playing FFXI. Doesn't sound like a busy family man to me, but what do I know I guess.
If someone's gonna claim it takes 2.5 hours/day, it will take 5 hours every two days, or 7.5 hours every 3 days. For someone who claims to want to be efficient with their tags, that means you're going to spend basically every waking hour you're not at work or asleep on a single day playing FFXI. Doesn't sound like a busy family man to me, but what do I know I guess.
What do you think "make Ody/Sortie entry items stackable like Omen" is? Its options.
Did you know that you have ZERO obligation to use those extra key items? It also doesnt expedite the Prime process either, since its still one entry per day.
Did you know that you have ZERO obligation to use those extra key items? It also doesnt expedite the Prime process either, since its still one entry per day.
7 hours absolutely not!!! That wasn’t what I meant. I meant doing a single run, triple down the tag like use 3 tags, get 3X rewards (muffins stone cases and all) for a single 1 hour run (but all your tags, or 2 or whatever you put down). Whoever spend 4+ hours in the game has an addiction issue for sure.
I kinda like that idea, like an ambuscade seal mechanic. This way you could strategically plan days off to get bonus runs on your regular days.
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Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
Did you know that you have ZERO obligation to use those extra key items? It also doesnt expedite the Prime process either, since its still one entry per day.
You already have the option to not use those extra key items, it's called skipping a day. Stacking only helps the FOMO problem if you actually use them.
I never said a single word about expediting anything; no idea where you conjured that from.
The devs have blame in this too, but I would still try to teach people to not fall for the egg timers.
To drop a Kevin Jordan quote. Trimmed with paraphrase.
To drop a Kevin Jordan quote. Trimmed with paraphrase.
Quote:
...I want to mention the egg timer problem. This is something I realized way back playing Ultima Online. They introduced us a system on a new server called Siege Perilous where every time you used a skill, every 15 minutes, you would automatically increase it by a point whereas before it was sort of random. You weren't sure when you were gonna get it. You could go an hour of practicing something and it may go up, it may not. And so, the way you played Siege Perilous if you wanted to develop your characters is you set up an egg timer next to you for the 15-minute mark. You log in, you practice your skill, then you log off. 15 minutes later the egg timer goes off, login get your skill. That was the most efficient use of your time and the most efficient way to level your character. Not playing constantly and so the system they designed promoted that kind of behavior, because a lot of us are min-maxers.
It occurred to me as a designer, this before I was a designer professionally, but it occurred to me that that's the beginning of the end. Once your behavior is dictated by this egg timer mentality which is what you see a lot of times with weekly rewards. Login, get your chest or even dailies. You login, do your dailies then you log out to the next day. That is the beginning of the end for your enjoyment of any experience because you're not playing it anymore, you're maximizing reward for time, that's all you're doing...
...but that is a surefire way of seeing that people are done playing the game for fun and they're just maximizing rewards and, in some cases, hoping that at some point the game is going to turn around and that investment will actually pay out
It occurred to me as a designer, this before I was a designer professionally, but it occurred to me that that's the beginning of the end. Once your behavior is dictated by this egg timer mentality which is what you see a lot of times with weekly rewards. Login, get your chest or even dailies. You login, do your dailies then you log out to the next day. That is the beginning of the end for your enjoyment of any experience because you're not playing it anymore, you're maximizing reward for time, that's all you're doing...
...but that is a surefire way of seeing that people are done playing the game for fun and they're just maximizing rewards and, in some cases, hoping that at some point the game is going to turn around and that investment will actually pay out
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Ultimaetus said: »
The devs have blame in this too, but I would still try to teach people to not fall for the egg timers.
To drop a Kevin Jordan quote. Trimmed with paraphrase.
To drop a Kevin Jordan quote. Trimmed with paraphrase.
Quote:
...I want to mention the egg timer problem. This is something I realized way back playing Ultima Online. They introduced us a system on a new server called Siege Perilous where every time you used a skill, every 15 minutes, you would automatically increase it by a point whereas before it was sort of random. You weren't sure when you were gonna get it. You could go an hour of practicing something and it may go up, it may not. And so, the way you played Siege Perilous if you wanted to develop your characters is you set up an egg timer next to you for the 15-minute mark. You log in, you practice your skill, then you log off. 15 minutes later the egg timer goes off, login get your skill. That was the most efficient use of your time and the most efficient way to level your character. Not playing constantly and so the system they designed promoted that kind of behavior, because a lot of us are min-maxers.
It occurred to me as a designer, this before I was a designed professionally, but it occurred to me that that's the beginning of the end. Once your behavior is dictated by this egg timer mentality which is what you see a lot of times with weekly rewards. Login get your chest or even dailies. You log in do your dailies then you log out to the next day. That is the beginning of the end for your enjoyment of any experience because you're not playing it anymore, you're maximizing reward for time, that's all you're doing...
...but that is a surefire way of seeing that people are done playing the game for fun and they're just maximizing rewards and, in some cases, hoping that at some point the game is going to turn around and that investment will actually pay out
It occurred to me as a designer, this before I was a designed professionally, but it occurred to me that that's the beginning of the end. Once your behavior is dictated by this egg timer mentality which is what you see a lot of times with weekly rewards. Login get your chest or even dailies. You log in do your dailies then you log out to the next day. That is the beginning of the end for your enjoyment of any experience because you're not playing it anymore, you're maximizing reward for time, that's all you're doing...
...but that is a surefire way of seeing that people are done playing the game for fun and they're just maximizing rewards and, in some cases, hoping that at some point the game is going to turn around and that investment will actually pay out
FFXI became more frustrating for me after the daily/weekly rewards. I found myself doing less outside of events, whereas I used to find ways to go out in to the world and earn rewards. This made me feel my money was better spent, and I had more fun playing the game. Now I log in, and unless I have a scheduled event, or I can be bothered to set up an event, there’s little motivation to go out and do anything solo.
Campaigns made this worse. You wait for certain campaigns to come around to do content, and that restricts the variety of what you do each week/month. For example, I rarely run Dynamis-D outside of a campaign. Nothing is stopping players from doing it, but it gives you less motivation to spend your time doing content that is dishing out fewer rewards outside of specific months. The game ends up telling you when to do things, instead of how it was back in the day... which was a free for all, plan your own playtime style of game.
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You just went on about "dont do Sortie every day, go touch grass, no ones forcing you"
Now you're talkin about how you only do Dyna-D during statue crusher because "the game is telling you when to do things".
Am I the only noticing the hypocrisy in these two statements?
Now you're talkin about how you only do Dyna-D during statue crusher because "the game is telling you when to do things".
Am I the only noticing the hypocrisy in these two statements?
Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
You just went on about "dont do Sortie every day, go touch grass, no ones forcing you"
Now you're talkin about how you only do Dyna-D during statue crusher because "the game is telling you when to do things".
Am I the only noticing the hypocrisy in these two statements?
Now you're talkin about how you only do Dyna-D during statue crusher because "the game is telling you when to do things".
Am I the only noticing the hypocrisy in these two statements?
Are you dumb? Seriously. It isn't literally telling me what to do, but the mindset is that you wait for the campaign to set up regular Dynamis-D if it isn't something you already do each week. Please think before you type.
Phoenix.Gavroches said: »
7 hours absolutely not!!! That wasn’t what I meant. I meant doing a single run, triple down the tag like use 3 tags, get 3X rewards (muffins stone cases and all) for a single 1 hour run (but all your tags, or 2 or whatever you put down). Whoever spend 4+ hours in the game has an addiction issue for sure.
What would be the point of making a single tag run then? Everyone would only do stacked tags runs, because why spend 3hours and 3 evenings, when you can spend 1. It wouldn't be an option at all, it would be the new optimum. For something like this to work, you would need to have some disadvantage on stacked run. Like for example only one case drop limit from all sources. Then you would have a choice. Spend less time and still get same amount of Galli, but get less cases/stones or spend more time and get same Galli but more cases/stones.
Cerberus.Kylos said: »
Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
You just went on about "dont do Sortie every day, go touch grass, no ones forcing you"
Now you're talkin about how you only do Dyna-D during statue crusher because "the game is telling you when to do things".
Am I the only noticing the hypocrisy in these two statements?
Now you're talkin about how you only do Dyna-D during statue crusher because "the game is telling you when to do things".
Am I the only noticing the hypocrisy in these two statements?
Are you dumb? Seriously. It isn't literally telling me what to do, but the mindset is that you wait for the campaign to set up regular Dynamis-D if it isn't something you already do each week. Please think before you type.
No
I'm not dumb
this is literally what you wrote
Cerberus.Kylos said: »
For example, I rarely run Dynamis-D outside of a campaign. Nothing is stopping players from doing it, but it gives you less motivation to spend your time doing content that is dishing out fewer rewards outside of specific months. The game ends up telling you when to do things
How the *** does this mean anything other than "I dont do Dyna-D outside of Statue Crusher"?
Oh, sorry.
you "rarely" do dyna-d outside of campaign.
you "rarely" do dyna-d outside of campaign.
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Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
Oh, sorry.
you "rarely" do dyna-d outside of campaign.
you "rarely" do dyna-d outside of campaign.
Exactly. I mostly did Dyna-D outside of the campaign to lead my group to wave 3 clears. After that I just stopped running Dynamis-D until there was a campaign so we could 1) farm materials better, and 2) farm points for augments. I have joined some random runs to gain augments, but that isn't often.
I'd rather do Sortie or Odyssey the rest of the time. This is also why I wouldn't like to see a Sortie or another Odyssey campaign, because if they become regular, you then feel the need to plan events around the campaigns, instead of what you and your group prefer, because it is more efficient. Apologies for the dumb remark.
The egg timer analogy is a masterpiece.
The moment you stop playing the game and the game starts playing you, you're done. Quit. Unsubscribe. Uninstall. Delete the game from your life. You no longer understand the concept of a video game and your gaming experience will only get worse continuing in that cycle. You're no longer in control, you're being controlled. The only way to break that cycle is to complete remove yourself from it entirely for a set period of time. Then, after a sufficient while, you'll return because you've reset any obligation to obtaining rewards and you'll be reminded that those virtual rewards really are meaningless digital treats that had zero point zero percent affect on your life, because you've missed so many of them that they no longer matter.
Fomo is absolute horse crap mind control and you should really reconsider your perspective towards the game if you honestly feel obligated to do content every single <day>. You can break free from that nonsense. I absolutely hate where gaming has gone, truly makes me sad.
The moment you stop playing the game and the game starts playing you, you're done. Quit. Unsubscribe. Uninstall. Delete the game from your life. You no longer understand the concept of a video game and your gaming experience will only get worse continuing in that cycle. You're no longer in control, you're being controlled. The only way to break that cycle is to complete remove yourself from it entirely for a set period of time. Then, after a sufficient while, you'll return because you've reset any obligation to obtaining rewards and you'll be reminded that those virtual rewards really are meaningless digital treats that had zero point zero percent affect on your life, because you've missed so many of them that they no longer matter.
Fomo is absolute horse crap mind control and you should really reconsider your perspective towards the game if you honestly feel obligated to do content every single <day>. You can break free from that nonsense. I absolutely hate where gaming has gone, truly makes me sad.
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
The egg timer analogy is a masterpiece.
The moment you stop playing the game and the game starts playing you, you're done. Quit. Unsubscribe. Uninstall. Delete the game from your life. You no longer understand the concept of a video game and your gaming experience will only get worse continuing in that cycle. You're no longer in control, you're being controlled. The only way to break that cycle is to complete remove yourself from it entirely for a set period of time. Then, after a sufficient while, you'll return because you've reset any obligation to obtaining rewards and you'll be reminded that those virtual rewards really are meaningless digital treats that had zero point zero percent affect on your life, because you've missed so many of them that they no longer matter.
Fomo is absolute horse crap mind control and you should really reconsider your perspective towards the game if you honestly feel obligated to do content every single <day>. You can break free from that nonsense. I absolutely hate where gaming has gone, truly makes me sad.
The moment you stop playing the game and the game starts playing you, you're done. Quit. Unsubscribe. Uninstall. Delete the game from your life. You no longer understand the concept of a video game and your gaming experience will only get worse continuing in that cycle. You're no longer in control, you're being controlled. The only way to break that cycle is to complete remove yourself from it entirely for a set period of time. Then, after a sufficient while, you'll return because you've reset any obligation to obtaining rewards and you'll be reminded that those virtual rewards really are meaningless digital treats that had zero point zero percent affect on your life, because you've missed so many of them that they no longer matter.
Fomo is absolute horse crap mind control and you should really reconsider your perspective towards the game if you honestly feel obligated to do content every single <day>. You can break free from that nonsense. I absolutely hate where gaming has gone, truly makes me sad.
That's probably why I felt so refreshed to return after a year out. I felt like I would miss all of those digital goodies, but losing 12 months meant I no longer cared if I didn't login every day for those "crucial" rewards. The extremely slow development of FFXI meant I got caught up to most of my group within a few months.
Obviously it depends what your group composition looks like but statue crusher is not even remotely close to the rewards we get from a regular dynamis run.
I'd say our average cut per person is something like:
1.5 Beast (750k)
1.5 Kindred (2m)
2 Demon (3.5m)
50 Swart (4.5m)
100 Heroism (1.8m)
500k
so...~13m?
Adding 2/3 of a beastmen (350k) and 2/3 of a kindred (850k) is a drop in the bucket. Don't get me wrong I still love when the campaign rolls around, but not doing an event because there isn't a 10% bonus rings a little hollow to me.
I guess if you're rolling with 18 people are splitting everything 18 ways it makes more sense..? Or if you're 6boxing a bunch of characters during crusher or something.
I'd say our average cut per person is something like:
1.5 Beast (750k)
1.5 Kindred (2m)
2 Demon (3.5m)
50 Swart (4.5m)
100 Heroism (1.8m)
500k
so...~13m?
Adding 2/3 of a beastmen (350k) and 2/3 of a kindred (850k) is a drop in the bucket. Don't get me wrong I still love when the campaign rolls around, but not doing an event because there isn't a 10% bonus rings a little hollow to me.
I guess if you're rolling with 18 people are splitting everything 18 ways it makes more sense..? Or if you're 6boxing a bunch of characters during crusher or something.
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Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »
Obviously it depends what your group composition looks like but statue crusher is not even remotely close to the rewards we get from a regular dynamis run.
I'd say our average cut per person is something like:
1.5 Beast (750k)
1.5 Kindred (2m)
2 Demon (3.5m)
50 Swart (4.5m)
100 Heroism (1.8m)
500k
so...~13m?
Adding 2/3 of a beastmen (350k) and 2/3 of a kindred (850k) is a drop in the bucket. Don't get me wrong I still love when the campaign rolls around, but not doing an event because there isn't a 10% bonus rings a little hollow to me.
I guess if you're rolling with 18 people are splitting everything 18 ways it makes more sense..? Or if you're 6boxing a bunch of characters during crusher or something.
I'd say our average cut per person is something like:
1.5 Beast (750k)
1.5 Kindred (2m)
2 Demon (3.5m)
50 Swart (4.5m)
100 Heroism (1.8m)
500k
so...~13m?
Adding 2/3 of a beastmen (350k) and 2/3 of a kindred (850k) is a drop in the bucket. Don't get me wrong I still love when the campaign rolls around, but not doing an event because there isn't a 10% bonus rings a little hollow to me.
I guess if you're rolling with 18 people are splitting everything 18 ways it makes more sense..? Or if you're 6boxing a bunch of characters during crusher or something.
My group is usually small (6-12) and we don't do wave 3, so the bonus is more significant. But anyway, this is more about showing an example (albeit not the best) of how players are swayed in to preferring content when campaigns are active. Of course, that hardly affects groups who do everything, every week, and smash all of it repeatedly in to the ground. Those groups won't notice it as much.
The nice thing about the campaigns is that they offer some direction, especially for newer players. Truth is there are like 20 things you can do in this game and it's really overwhelming to decide which one to do in a given month. Having the campaigns provides some direction to focus your efforts instead of getting overwhelmed.
Once you're at true endgame, none of the campaigns are really meaningful. Maybe Dark Matter augs?
Once you're at true endgame, none of the campaigns are really meaningful. Maybe Dark Matter augs?
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