Dev Tracker - Discussion

This is a game, if people aren't having fun and can't play what they want, they'll just quit or bypass content - which is exactly what's happening lol.

I would've agreed with you when I was 15 with unlimited free time and 1 game in my rotation. Now with a few hours to play, if I'm bored I'm just logging off.

Exactly. The notion of people needing to "work their way up" in a video game is almost boomerish in how outdated it is, especially in a game like FFXI where the vast majority of the playerbase is already at top endgame levels. People spout the "If you don't like it, leave!" mantra on here then put on their shocked Pikachu faces when people leave lol

Thing I've noticed as a returning player over the past 2~3 years and also in interactions with new and returning players is that there are some nebulous gearing goals that don't have a clarified purpose.

Like, when I came back people told me to shoot for +2 Ambu gear as gate way to endgame. I got full +2 ambu, but it didn't really impress anybody nor give me a leg into groups or anything. It did let me kill other stuff on my own more effectively, though.

A friend I made last fall was working on BRD to break into endgame so he could go back to being BLU (He's am MLvl 38 BLU now, while his BRD is sporting Empy Harp, Ghorn etc His BLU wasn't even at the JP of my WAR back in the fall). He had gotten a couple of his friends to play, and they were gunning for endgame. When I met them, it was during Ambuscade, and I was kind of the *** of the walk for them. Last time we did anything together was late December or early January, don't remember which.

Anyway, his pals were a Monk and a Dancer for Ambu. They came THF and a WHM in other stuff. We did a Sortie run together at some point where we killed all the ground floor mini-NMs together. And it was a struggle. I tried to keep up with him and his pal, but my schedule is just not friendly to playing with regular folks. But the THF MNK had been told he had to farm full Malignance before he'd be allowed to join the BRD BLU's LS. I offered to do some Lilith with him and we did do a few Liliths together, but that's the last time I heard from him. The BRD BLU I see online on my friends list all the time, but he never talks to me at length.

I think the issue more is that people are told these nebulous and untrue things about getting into groups if they get X gear, when the reality is, is they will get into a group if the group allows them to get into the group.

That's most easily done with a support job, which we always see people on this forum saying they leveled and played extensively... but sometimes that just means leveled a mule and botted the mule to do it, extensively. And they are required to be REMA outfitted if you want a guarantee of any sort, which that BRD BLU definitely had success, though he also told me he was retired now, early, and so he had all the time to play he could ask for as well.

Though his friends could have tried to soldier on with me, they elected to work their way in with him and his LS, and idk if they kept with it or not. Idk if they got in. I like to assume they did, but the MNK THF was on my friends list and I haven't seen him online in a hot minute. Idk if the DNC WHM had to do anything ridiculous like get full Malignance.

Meanwhile, I know some other guy that was a returner. He'd had really good friends in the early 2010s era of the game or something, and they basically took him through Sheol and got him full Sakpatas almost immediately upon his return. He went from sheepishly doing Ambuscade with anyone willing to go with him, to shouting for D intense or higher exclusively, and demanding other people play support etc.

So idk, everyone is having wildly different experiences the only common factor being there's this big barrier to entry, and you have to steam on through it somehow. The easiest way through is to get vets to break the wall down for you, but your avenues to doing that are limited, otherwise you've just gotta break the wall down yourself, piece by piece. Take those rakes to the face til you love them or until you can't no more.

I won't try to dissuade or convince you guys otherwise but tbh if you just want to play DRK and nothing else then be ready for a lot of rejection when it comes to joining groups. That's on you, not on the group leaders or SE, in my opinion. You're perfectly within your rights to feel that way, but endgame ffxi will not be kind to you, it's just not that kinda game

It is most definitely on SE that relevant content can only be regularly experienced on a small fraction of the numerous jobs in the game and that the fun is ruined for a large amount of people for that reason.

It's bizarre to me that people like yourself sit here and treat this video game like a job and then wonder why people aren't sticking around to play.

Check out this lazy math. Most people's favorite jobs aren't BRD, COR, or GEO. So 3 flex jobs between 6 people means 50% of everyone playing and trying to win is miserable BY DESIGN.

I get that people's solutions to this is ALLIANCE-JESUS!!! Only 3~6/18 need be miserable! But maybe the solution is making BRD, COR, and GEO less required for EFFICIENT winning accross the board. I think we all know balance isn't really this games strong point and i personally think it's in a very decent spot right now. But for the sake of conversation, if hard supports became less good at buffing and hybrids became much better at landing debuffs(possibly at higher potencies), would people stop playing BRD, GEO, COR? I assume COR would be safe because SAM roll, but a lot of jobs have really decent tp sets.

Thought exercise, I honestly only want buffs not nerfs at this point

I think everyone commenting here understands this, no one is disputing the way it currently is. I have several jobs geared that I don't want to do but do because I have to, I wouldn't be surprised if most people do. I don't particularly enjoy playing PLD, but it's what I end up doing the most of despite nearly getting a seizure tanking in Gaol due to the stupid *** fetters flashing.

The issue is that it doesn't have to be that way and it is absolutely on SE. They have designed this content in a way that requires a certain group composition to be effective. Other MMOs are more restricted in how many jobs a character can play, but the job comps for content are less narrow or multiple jobs can fill the role. I've also never played a healing job in any other game that is as boring as WHM in FFXI.

I will admit that I think there are more compositions than people are willing to recognize or accept for a lot of content. Most players aren't willing to entertain the idea of trying something other than what they've used before or what is on the guide, which is a social problem, but it's still very limited especially when you consider the # of players allowed into the content.

They would have to radically redesign the game for that to happen. Everything for the past 10+ years has been built around the power we get from massive buffs / debuffs, altering that math, while possible, isn't something SE is going to do at this point.


Because the people arguing for that have invested so much into this game that allowing others to reach the same spot with less effort drives them into angry panic attacks. "Because I walked six miles barefoot on broken glass, everyone else should have to suffer that as well."

The silliness of that belief is why I meme them ruthlessly.

Literally nobody is saying this, this is the most straw-filled man I have ever seen in my entire life.

My point, and one I'm sure loads of other people are making is more like:
This is FFXI. It's always been this way. Here we come with the "but muh alliance content"

You know what an alliance for Fafnir looked like?
PLD PLD WHM BRD RDM
SAM BRD WHM
BRD BLM BLM BLM BLM RDM

If you're the third RDM to show up, go *** yourself. If you're playing DRG, DRK, WAR, are the second SAM to show up, go *** yourself.

You think people welcomed the fourth THF in their dynamis - Xarcabard alliance? Job requirements have always been a thing, jobs have always been excluded from content, including alliance content, and there has always been a meta. People have been playing jobs they don't want to play to get DKP to spend on the job they want to play FOREVER.

There are probably 15 year old memes about SMN sitting in town for 6 hours waiting for an invite and BRDs getting sent tells to join an EXP party while they're already in one. BRD has been an essential part of EXP parties and all end-game strategies since the game came out. WHM and RDM were the only healers & PLD and NIN the only tanks for like a decade. This is the game we have always been playing.

How is it possible that 20 year veterans of the game are acting like SE has suddenly *** them into playing jobs they don't want to, as if the game has radically changed? Were you guys in groups that allowed you to come whatever job you wanted to every event? Were you playing SMN only to every event in the TOAU age or something? If so, I played a very different game to the one you played.

If you want a casual, drop in and play whatever job I want game, you're on the wrong forum bro.

FFXI allowing you to play every class on one character is unique in that you even have the ability to play more desired classes to gear up the undesirable ones. Imagine telling your friends to come play this cool new MMO where they'll have to level a healer to get groups and gear so then months later they might be able play their mage alt, that they actually are interested in playing from the start - and only for select content when the stars align in group composition. You'll have exactly 0 friends joining you

I didn't have a support job or mage leveled in my first like 8 years of playing this game, and was able to do every level of content. And yeah we had people with literally 1 job (a SMN and a MNK), that touched and defeated every level of content the game had to offer lol. We're now telling people to level a WHM or BRD if you want to do anything in a group.

20 year veterans aren't acting like that. They're rightfully pointing out that such *** is a major factor in terms of stifling population growth for the game and acts as a huge dissuading factor for a huge number of people. This is amplified by the fact that there's not much content giving people time to play jobs they actually enjoy.

Interesting. Tell me more about what your MNK and SMN were doing on JoL. Did this MNK just boost + Chi Blast 50% of the game? There's a ton of NMs in the 75 era where a MNK couldn't contribute in any meaningful way. What's he doing on Tiamat? Did your SMN actually contribute meaningful magic bursts on this stuff? What was he doing on Kirin? How helpful was a SMN for Dynamis Lord pre-Alexander? What role did a SMN fulfill for merit parties?

Sure, you can carry along your friends while they watch you kill stuff, but there's PLENTY of content in 75 era where at least 5 or more jobs could not meaningfully contribute.

Did you not have SMNs spamming Nether Blast on Kirin?


I think you are mistaking meaningfully contributing with non-optimally contributing.

I watched tons of pro's do ***on my mnk and drg!

First off, I don't even know what the argument is anymore. But I do know that back in the day you still needed WHM, you still needed BRD, you still needed COR. The difference is that there was more interchange in the rest of the PT. You didn't care about damage types for anything except maybe Temperance or (much later) Tojil. So if your friend only had MNK or DRG you could just slot them in. It was fine. Fact remains though you still needed to have your ducks in a row with your healing and support jobs. That's as true as ever.

But if you only have SMN or MNK in 2024 you're going to have a bad time.

In the early days during the "kite Kirin for 3 hours and slowly burn him down" days we did, but then we started melee zerging him in 60 seconds, during which a SMN was totally useless. Same with DL and a whole bunch of other fights.

I mean, it really depends on the fight. What is a THF going to do, other than apply treasure hunter, on (fill in the blank with any event you want)? How's a THF going to help you beat the hecteyes BCNM, or the Up in arms BCNM? What is a THF going to do in a KRT bones merit party?

TA a MNK

Just spitballin', but...

• WHM gets Haste II (SCH too under Addendum)

• Change Indi-Haste to lv 59

• Give BLU's Diffusion the Majesty treatment

• BST pets get some moves with indi-like aura effects

• NIN party buff ninjutsu (Hayai: Ichi?)

Karambits on THF slaps.

It's definitely possible to be DD onry at the start and do well in end game content. Source - personal experience.

However, if you are going to be one of 1-4 DD depending if party or alliance content then guess what - you need to pull your weight.

Coming back to the Sortie party situation. What group will take a Nin DD to Sortie even if they are geared to the teeth.

It becomes even harder to fit in people with only one job, almost always dd, when you have one party and only 2 dds. Yes, those dds have support jobs they can swap to. But their output cannot be matched by a replacement dd.

It is much easier to gear up and play support, which is why those groups often ask for those jobs first.

Which of these poorly geared jobs are easier to drag along:
COR using Barataria etc
GEO with Dunna etc
WHM with Sifaihr Slacks etc
BRD with Blurred Harp +1 etc
Literally any DD using ambu+1 gear and a similar tier weapon

Relics are permissable as theyre rather cheap and easy to get.

A well geared frontline can carry a mediocre backline with ease.
A mediocre frontline will struggle to carry an elite backline. The cor and brd in the elite backline will wind up carrying the poorly geared DDs.

Also why the *** are you inviting a thief to a KRT party other than for some self-absorbed “see I can do it it works” reason?

I find this entire post enraging, offensive, and 100% accurate.

15 jobs pre cop, 8 are physical damage dealers (war mnk thf drk rng sam nin drg) and only one can do a multitude of buffs.

“Y brd so popular”

This is not even remotely true. I have never brought a BLM to a fafnir fight. We used THF, WAR, DRK. Other LSs at the time had totally different strat than ours. No content were filled with THFs but at least 1 THF was present in almost every single content back then (except for exp pt..lol).

I was referring to 75 era, during which Karambits didn't exist. Destroyers maybe, I can assure you they would not slap lol.

Oh lol, yeah most definitely would not.

Early Fafhogg you most certainly brought a BLM or 3. Those 50 damage AAs and 800 WSs weren't cutting it.

[/quote]

*** Darters, man lol...