Dev Tracker - Discussion

The game has always been like that.

You don't "need" best of the best gear to do anything. But it's fun to get it and rofl-stomp everything slightly faster/easier.

A little common *** sense; Don't yell "I'm botting herpderp".

I know, explaining common sense to people without common sense. Like teaching goldfish to read.

Thad be the main difference between all the other times, though id say post aby/vw comes close but i dont think SE specifically said theyd go into maint mode, was just clear where priorities were at the time

I would prefer that common sense from that other guy: “dont *** things up in front of jp players”.

And dont make enemies.

DEATH IS NEAR!!

Don't piss anyone off. Correct. It doesn't matter jp na or eu. None have better success rate getting no one to read their report.

But you piss the wrong person off and they report you every day for a year, you will eventually win (lose) the lottery.

Back at the gym
So I got time to read between sets

So if RMT have their claws, fangs, hooks, toes, elbows dug into the game so fiercely, even in unimaginable ways, why is “well we cant make game better for the legit players becuz RMT” a justifiable reason? The game is already lost to RMT, let the legit players with human friends have their fun. Theyre already quitting in droves. ~10% gone in the last 4 months. RMT has become an uncurable cancer, let the host live their best life before they die.

Whats permitting 12 or 18 to Bumba gonna do? Make it easier? You get one chance, aka no “damn wiped at 5%, lets finish it off”, and youre still limited to one job per. Aka no stacking DD DD WHM BRD COR GEO in 3 parties.

I don't agree. We still used Sky gear (Byakko's Haidate, W Legs, etc.) for years after and sea gear for years and years after, then used salvage gear, and on and on. We needed the gear from previous content to be much better at newer content.

Now we grind for what? Sortie is beyond a joke. Even adding some randomness to the mobs that pop (keeping same objectives) would make it less mentally draining. Ody V20 is generally easy, V25 T1-2 is still challenging in places but not that hard (except Marmo maybe) for decently geared ML30 people. T3 V25 are a good challenge, but were done before Primes or ML>30 existed (or were the norm) and Bumba is just complete ***garbage content design that uses Kaustra cheesing and pure luck.

Y'know, that actually sounds like a lot of fun. I'd love to see an event where everyone needs to come as a different job.

I'd also love to see them make it so the moogle just refills your Moglophone II's, because it makes no sense to have you type in the number you want to buy when you can't even enter without all three >_>

I understand what Thorny is getting at and see his point, but I still don't think it would matter.

Almost all group content I'm involved in coordinates around Discord, others in linkshell. The decision for casual static-ish groups is whether or not they are going to run together or not, they coordinate that on Discord or LS chat. "Are we going tonight?", ok, I save my entry. Regular statics just assume they are all going together unless told otherwise. It might have a negative impact on PUGs, but PUGs have a negative impact on themselves. Personally I'd rather not go at all than get sucked into a shitty PUG and waste an hour, so that effect is already in place. I expect most people would rather run with a full alliance and get the benefits of doing that than hope whatever merc they pay can obtain the same result with 6 people. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it turns into Dynamis-D RP where people largely pay mercs to do it. Maybe it helps bring more people together and allows different job comps.

Maybe people get Empyrean+3/+2 upgrades faster. There are a few more Primes circulating because people were able to fill the gaps in when they didn't go with mercs. I don't really see that upsetting the game balance enough to matter. It's not like the +3 upgrades are hard to obtain or take too much time, nor does obtaining that gear on another job act as some kind of squirrel catcher for skill on that job. People can obtain +3 Empyrean gear on a job they've never touched as is. You are just making getting those pieces more efficient and allowing them able to move onto other content (Odyssey) more effectively. People who have a hardon for Sortie can still do it and I venture most who care about doing as much as possible will still go with their regular groups.

I also think it's too little too late. This would've been better off when the content came out before people started feeling drained of it. Maybe it'll stop the bleeding, but personally I'm so burned out on Sortie at this point I doubt it. Being honest, I'd merc the ***out of it and never step foot in there again with a group unless all my friends that left magically decided to return or people I know were forming a group I could trust to not be an hour long circlejerk. It would've been a different story a year ago, we probably could've filled 2 parties with people interested in going regularly, at least.

I've always wanted to hear about a troll move like that built into various add-ons. Like a hidden rule of every Xth time, Anchor would be like "/sh that didn't make me move! Thanks anchor!" Or something more random like "if it's Lightsday, React won't turn away from Belly Dance"

or /yell «King Ranperre's Tomb» CP 500p/5m 2100p/20m ML 0-20/15m 20-30/30m 30-40/90m «Buy?» «/tell»

A while back, I got kindof annoyed at how many people were asking me to edit luas, I considered adding some code to the ones they sent me that randomly, with a very low chance, did something slightly annoying. Unequip a piece of gear, make an embarrassing /p admission, randomly use a JA, etc.

I decided it was too mean, but maybe it would also make them think twice about running code someone sent them without checking it.

Some of us more "speshal" people wouldn't even know where to begin, to write a lua. But I would imagine seeing a "oops I forgot to equip my 12% movement speed boots again" line in the code should be easy to spot by anyone LOL

It was gonna be way more mean than that. Like unequip the mainhand instead of use a WS or randomly SP, but with like a 1/100 chance. I thought about making it clear what was happening and add something to /p or /echo that said something like "I don't think I can do that, I think I'll do this instead". Some of these luas are so large you could bury it without people realizing it unless they looked.

but I didn't want to get them caught out in real content and most of them I did stuff with, so I just told them I almost did it instead of actually doing it.

I like the shout idea though

How are you still using this strawman? My argument has never been that RMT are the reason you can't increase alliance size. Please read my last post.

I don't see using the same gear for 10 years out of lack of options as a good thing. It was used not only because it was good, it was used because there were no other options, for any situation.

XI as a game of gear swapping kinda needs multiple sets of gear to swap to.

Odyssey as content is beyond a joke, and my motivation for doing v25 is somewhere below absolute zero. Sortie at least allows incremental progression, not just wipe over and over hoping for RNG-Jesus to smile upon thee.

On engage, if player is in a non-trust party and math.random(10) is 9 or higher, /yell "OH NO, THE ANTS ARE BACK!", cancel lockstyle, and unequip all gear/disable all slots.

If you want to be nicer, you can make sure player ML isn't above 30 and their target's name isn't a boss from Sortie, Divergence, GF or Omen first.

And that was a mixed bag that ultimately led to people leaving then too, among other things like lack of content. nothing could beat or often rival sky/king/sea gear, even AU gear with salvage had this issue but atleast brought about good alternatives in gear via crafted stuff, salvage/znm/nyzul but top end was still sky/sea/kings. Made for great lasting content but by late AU/WotG people were tired of gear that was only maybe slightly better than the old gear in this specific scenerio

Also you never needed top end gear post AU, problem before then was you had almost 0 alternatives, 1 haste belt if not mnk until sea with the lesser haste belt, little to no haste gear if you werent on dusk or again, mnk/sam/nin, armor stats were crap. AU gave you options to move up besides sky/sea/kings and also just made getting into those easier too

Never?


You're telling me none of these are RMT related reasons???

I get that this will always be a viewpoint, but we've been running Dyna for 3 years now (with and without alts, but mostly with lately as interest has declined) and it's nice because it's one of the few events we get to bring "the whole LS" and not just the Elite 6ᵀᴹ.

If FFXI wants to remove the "Massive" moniker and just be a "Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game", fine. But you can't claim to be MASSIVE and reduce all content to 6-person ***.

Also, personally, I don't give a ***if people want to drag mules/alts in for free points, to any content. If they're open, who cares. If it solves Player 7-11 getting shafted and not getting to do content, sounds like a win to me.

They are responses to you claiming there wouldn't be runs available for sale. I know you aren't this stupid, are you voluntarily ignoring my argument?


Half of these are in the same posts you quoted. RMT are an avenue via which the runs become cheap and plentiful in this situation. The problem isn't the RMT making money or people being able to merc it, they can do that now. The problem is that creating that many leech spots erodes motivation for people to actually do the content. You're perfectly capable of disagreeing with this, since neither of us can prove it, but instead you choose to ignore my argument and argue against something I never claimed in the first place.

And? That doesnt change the fact that you made multiple RMT based excuses why opening to alliance is a bad idea. Adding other reasons doesnt annul the other RMT based reasons you put forth.
Actually I did, in a way, since your argument is based on "people doing the content"
Literally, who cares.
10 percent of the active players gone in the last 4 months for whatever reason is a pretty good reason to change the status quo. Yes, the population is gonna dwindle over time for a game in maintenance mode, but 10% in four months is not chump change. No, I dont know what the reasons are, but I'm very skeptical to believe that most of these people got their V25 Bumba clear and/or picked up their prime weapon then logged into the SQEX portal to deactivate their account.

And if Galkapryme mercs a prime weapon, WHO THE *** CARES?!?
I literally dont give a ***if Materdark in 6 months makes a thread about how to use Tachi: Mumei. Ok, well thats not true, I'll be annoyed, as will a lot of other people, but I can guarantee it will have nothing to do with the prime weapon; I'll be because he's making yet another dumbass thread when he could spend 30 seconds on bg-wiki getting his answers.

Wouldn't this be the same pool of people already not doing the content now?

Nobody doing 8/9 boss clears is going to pay mercs to carry/pilot them when they can do it themselves with their static. At least I know I'm not.

Heartily LOL'd

You are still arguing against a point I didn't make. Your argument is against this:
-People shouldn't be allowed to merc, it lets them get gear they don't deserve.
or something similar. I have not said that. I haven't even implied it. This is not an argument about the morality of mercing or RMT, solely about the practicality of sustaining a game where the highest content is handout tier. I did not make any sort of RMT excuse, I mentioned RMT in the process of building up my argument and you hyperfixated on it and still, even now, are arguing against something I never ****ing said.


My actual argument:
-If you have 10+ free spaces for every group doing sortie, suddenly every player of any tier can obtain emp+3 and primes easily(whether that's by leeching a friend's run or buying from merc is irrelevant).
-If everyone can get emp+3, all lower content and progression prior to emp+3 becomes near-irrelevant.
-If everyone can leech a S4 prime in a few months for comparable gil to RMEA, then most RMEA become irrelevant too.

How is this a sustainable way to keep the game going? You've removed all other content, removed the returning player experience, removed the ladder. For every person who is more likely to play because they can group with their existing group, there are 2 more who will quit because the game no longer has challenges left that feel attainable. You have people who would be forming groups that never bother, because it's cheap and easy to tag along with an existing group even though they don't really contribute. Getting gallimaufry doesn't make the game fun, contributing in a meaningful way does. Sitting in an established group adding next to nothing isn't enjoyable long term; once the excitement of rapid progress wears off you just feel bored. But, with it available, those people aren't going to go back to trying to challenge themselves, they'll just quit.

Sortie is the perfect example of attainable content. It's not like Odyssey, where you need perfection to clear. You can go in and farm 5k galli as an early player and still be making reasonable progress(an emp+2 piece every other day is an insane power leap). You can do 10-20k as a small group and still be making great progress toward emp+3. You guys are living in an echo chamber where only the top 10% of the game doing 8/9 or 9/9 runs exist; it's not reality. I would bet the median Sortie run is actually sub-15k. Plenty of JP are willing to accept less than 80k galli a run and work toward their goals anyway, it's the NA elitist crowd that doesn't consider anything less to be 'doing sortie'.

If you make 80k leech runs available for everyone, you delete that ecosystem. People who are currently enjoying working at their goals have to be constantly reminded that for a few mil, they can get a week's progress handed to them in a day. The goal of the game isn't to put everyone at top level asap, it's to provide entertainment and a path to advancement. Cheapening it in that way is counterproductive to the game's longevity.

I don't know how much more clearly I can spell out my argument. I don't expect you really care either, since it's likely the same driving force as your whining about mules having to contribute for vanabout. But, you've made no attempt to address the actual point I built up to. You argue against the first half of each post rather than the sum argument.

You know it would be because he got a Stage 3 and couldn’t figure out why the WS didn’t work outside Sortie

Omen
Dynamis D
Geas Fete
Aeonics
Incursion
Delve
Vagary
Voidwatch
Salvage (debatable due to piss poor drop rates back in 2009)
Einherjar
Dynamis
Limbus
Sky
Sea
Two decades worth of content where every player of any tier could obtain equipment beyond their skill level. WHO CARES
Do you know how many low IQ Neanderthals I saw running around in Duelist's Chapeau, Assassin's Armlets, E.Bd, Ridill back in the day? Big thumbs up to the WAR/NIN at Puks pairing their ridill and e.bd with ruby rings and the RDM in their Duelist's Chapeau unable to debuff Fafnir.
The only people upset would be the Gredivals crying about their unique shinies not being unique anymore.

What???? It hasnt been relevant in a decade.
That hasnt been an issue since ilvl was created. Get to lv99, jump to modern content. No characters created in 2024 are working their way through outdoors delve for beads to have extra time to fight Tchakka for their Tsurumaru, they're not chain farming Skirmish to get stones to augment their Otronif, then +1 it, then chain farm Alluvion Skirmish to get stones to upgrade their Acro set, etc etc. Bear in mind, amidst all that, I skipped a swath of sub-99 content as well. Theyre jumping to the highest point possible as soon as they hit 99.
https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/57691/invest-in-sam-amanomurakumo-masamune-or-dojikiri/
I hate to break it to you, but REMA's arent a status symbol anymore.

Is 10% of the playerbase quitting in the last 4 months a sustainable way to keep the game going?

Did you read a single thing I said? The issue isn't players having gear beyond their skill level. It's not a morality argument. I feel like you're not reading a single word of my posts, you've been arguing against the same strawman for pages and it's bordering on absurdity.

The highest point is what, exactly? They can't contribute to Sortie, and Odyssey has a 45 day gate. They spend the meantime exploring content and getting some of the gear, not the entire path. Farm some cards in Omen for AF+3. Get early dynamis clears for relic. Stop and farm a REMA weapon. Get a neat piece from trove. Clear WOTG so they can farm Lilith. Build up some macro sets, get your character generally useful, then you can do some starter Sortie groups and get your emp+2. Work your way through Odyssey, keep poking at Sortie, progress over time.. the way a game is meant to work.

With alliance Sortie, that all disappears. The default returning behavior is to go straight to Sortie as soon as you hit 99, pull a full set of emp+3 in 5 days because it's cheap and everyone tells you to. Then, you're still not able to tackle Odyssey, but every other piece you can get becomes borderline irrelevant. The only exciting gear you get comes from sitting in a group you can't even contribute to immediately after completing Adoulin.
You could go make a REMA anyway, but why bother if you can keep leeching Sortie for a prime and it's better?

It's a huge logical fallacy to assume that because players are quitting right now, your change would reduce it. Players are going to quit a game with minimal releases regardless. There's absolutely no evidence to indicate your change would reduce the amount of players quitting, all you're saying here is that things are bad atm.