Random Politics & Religion #27

You're not this obtuse.

They fired a guy for creating a hostile work environment. They had absolutely no legal recourse, as not firing him would have left them open to lawsuits, and they are already under federal investigation for discriminatory workplace practices.

This stuff has been settled in employment law since the 70s. Whatever anyone thinks of the contents of his work, sharing it like he did was stupid, and the only possible outcome was his termination, full stop. Google couldn't have kept him if they'd wanted to.

I would agree with you if it wasn't for 2 things:

1) They neither reprimanded, nor even attempt to reprimand him until after the internal memo leaked out into the public.

2) He stated an opinion based on his own knowledge of the matter. He also stated it in a way that doesn't call out anyone in particular. Well, not anyone but the company itself.

Sure, he was an idiot to release that memo to everyone. Sure, he was an idiot to release the memo to anyone other than upper management. Google is also stupid for firing him almost immediately, and for that reason, and publicly, because it also opens Google up for lawsuits (from both the fired employee and other fired employees, for discrimination). If Google was smart, they would fired him for some other reason than what they publicly shamed him for.

It also gives Google very bad press in this matter. It will also make it harder for people to work for them since it shows that Google will not accept anything other than whatever popular groupthink is at that time.

Have an opinion that doesn't 100% comply to the narrative? You aren't welcome here.

If they keep it up, they will find themselves hurting in the long run.

Also, I'm not going to deny that Google has the right to hire and fire anyone. They could have handled this in a much better way and we would have never heard any of it.

1) The document was leaked within minutes, and it takes a while to gather the necessary legal/HR cover to terminate someone. I expect the wheels actually started the second someone with any authority saw it. In any case, the timeline is too compressed to draw any real conclusions from that.

2) Women engineers already have a much harder go of it than their male counterparts. Google itself is under investigation for not paying them appropriately. Only the most charitable reading of that document doesn't paint it as "they're not as good at this", and given how much more they have to deal with, I don't think you can level the bad faith argument at them. I'm not normally one to play the identity politics card, but having been in the trenches, I can assure you that the hurdles are there, they are very real, and they drive good people out of the industry with alarming frequency.

Also, not for nothin', but the dude doesn't actually understand how high level engineering actually works. People skills are the most important ***imaginable once you're past the junior level UNGH ME CODE MODULE LIKE GOOD CAVEMAN phase. Getting everyone's disparate systems to work together involves more meetings and coordination than anything else. Code is like 15% of the job once you're past the entry ranks.

And again, re: lawsuits - Google acted according to the letter of the law. They had zero choice in the matter, and have exposed themselves to no extra legal liability.

(Plus, almost no one actually wants to work at Google anymore and hasn't for a while)

No they didn't. I even posted an interview with the ACTUAL guy discussing his internal memo and his previous attempts at having an open discussion. Google had already created a hostile work environment towards anyone not conforming to the political ideology of their middle management.

If you haven't read the actual ORIGINAL document, then you don't know what your talking about. This is because leftists inside Google's twitter took his internal memo, stripped it of formatting, citations, charts, and other qualifying statements, then sent it to their contacts at gismodo who turned it into a hit piece. This nothing but pure bullying you just you become part of it.

Here the original unedited memo complete with citations from published peer reviewed sources.

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3914586/Googles-Ideological-Echo-Chamber.pdf

But like KN says, sources are bad when they don't support your preconceived narrative.

As for the legality, he will likely get a nice settlement from Google as it's probable that Google just violated California laws. Those same super liberal laws that says your employer can't fire you for trying to improve work conditions or express dissatisfaction in work environments. Before the left media went full retard this has was internally talking with Google HR about work conditions which is why this memo was written in the first place.

And I assure you that it is the same in most industries, but not because of sexism (mostly, but I will admit that sexism does exist in hiring, it's not as prevalent as some people portray) but because what situations occur in each individual case.

In other words, because of the biological nature of the matter, women will take more time off than men due to various factors. I don't think I need to explain why though, it should be pretty obvious.

As for those hurdles, maybe that is what Damore is trying to show. It's a piss-poor attempt at it, but that could be the reason why he made/distributed that memo. He did state such just before he was fired.

It doesn't sound like he was hired for that.

What is interesting to note is that planned protests against Google were canceled due to threats from domestic terrorist groups.

On that case, by publicly shaming Damore, they opened themselves up for discrimination lawsuits.

Google is the Walmart of Silicon Valley now.

I like you man, but don't get hyper aggressive against the guy who can silence you quicker than you can say "A wizard did it."

Trust me on this.

Not it was leaked after a few weeks.

Stop watching leftist news sources for information on this, listen to the ACTUAL guy who wrote it.


No they have it easier, due to affirmative action and "diversity" quotas at universities females can score lower then males to get accepted to those engineering programs. Due to various "pro-diversity" hiring practices women get bonus points on their resumes when submitting for engineering jobs.


Have you actually read the original, not the cut and edit job on various news sources but the actual original document? Seriously it says the exact opposite of that. The guy went out of his way to specify that he's for an all inclusive work environment. He noted that there is a mountain of study done on prenatal testosterone levels and how it effects brain development in drives the differences between male and female brains. This is accepted concrete scientific literature. He pointed out various other studies that demonstrated people focused vs things focused thinking and how there are generalized differences between males and females. This is hormone driven biology.

Basically your telling us that women have the same average height as men and that anything that says otherwise is sexist, misogynist and should be ignored.

Yes, I read the original document. You think I had to wait for Gizmodo? PLEASE.

He will get no settlement.

Actual administrative account, because I am so *** tired of this ***.

I have shown infinite *** patience with some of the *** that goes on around here, you in particular. The constant "be nice or Rooks will ban you" (despite linking to a Jaerik post) is so, so exhausting, and a big part of why I mostly let the mods handle this stuff.

If I wanted to ban people because I didn't like them or we got in an argument, this place would be a ghost town.

Anyway, you're topicbanned, because if I'm going to have a reputation as a big meanie, I'm gonna earn it.

Seeing as you said


Which is patently false.

And this


Which is also patently false.

http://www.businessinsider.com/james-damore-may-win-nlra-legal-case-google-2017-8

Google doesn't have much ground to stand on because the place where the memo was "obtained" was their own internal discussion forum. Specifically the place to discuss workplace conditions and things that might need changing. The memo itself had language early on that specifically state it's goal was to open a discussion about the best way to approach an inclusive environment at google.

He's already filed the lawsuit, there is already a large crowd funding effort to provide more then ample legal funds. Google is already in a one public legal battle, they don't want anymore bad publicity. They will make a settlement offer large enough that he will accept it with one of the conditions being a NDA and no more public discussion about the incident.

There is a pattern that happens.

Side 1 posts an argument
Side 2 posts a counterargument

Very soon it's realized that due to political religions they are irreconcilable and that's when the crusaders do what they do best. The crusaders like to use personal attacks to draw their opponent away from a fact based rational discussion into an emotional mud slinging contest. Once that happens they escalate and turn the whole thing to a ***show to shut down the discussion. This isn't something that only happens here, it happens on pretty much every Political discussion forum.

My suggestion to everyone is to not get personal, especially if the other guy is just trying to draw you into an emotional fight of who's a bigger victim.

From the second page of the memo that was read but not really read.





President Trump was kinda elected over this point.




There is that evil paragraph that left news sites cut and pasted to change his words. And that's just the first few pages, the whole thing is a solid read, again plenty of citations and based on various studies done on gender differences. Nothing the guy said was controversial among scientists in those fields. It's only controversial to those wanting to push a narrative with a draconian crusader mentality.

But hey dishonest reporting is perfectly find as long as it agree's with the lefts narrative.

Start of source train

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_psychology#Personality_traits

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11519935


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18179326



Science has validated what he has said. Our early ancestors evolution had gender specializations, just like every other animal species on the planet. Those specializations resulted in an unequal distribution of personality traits between the sexes. Different personality traits offer a competitive advantage for different jobs. Thus that early difference in genetic distribution has resulted in an unequal distribution of job preferences between men and women.

The key determiner here is that he more wealthy and equal a society is, the more those biological differences appear.

But hey sources and science are bad when they don't support a liberal narrative that all humans are just blank slates with completely equal distribution of all traits.

The left-media establishment. It thrives on social justice and nohing rallies up the troops like "your president is a nazi".

They dont care that it isnt true, truth isnt important to them, only power.

That's a different argumentative point than what you originally presented.

The president needs the neo-nazi/white supremacist vote (David Duke's narrative not the left or it's media)

vs.

The president is a nazi sympathetizer based on his comments where he said the people at the Friday night rally (where there were chants of "blood and soil" & "Jews will not replace us") were good people. Along with the condemnation of the counter-protestors and his combativeness.

Which is not leftist media narrative and in fact something that happened.

You're going to find the desire for a neutral conversation impossible. That is due to the core ideology of the side that wants to eradicate anything that's not "white", and those whom are considered to be guilty of betrayal. Along with it's own self (mis)attributed stance of being a persecuted class; is anything but neutral.

There was a World War to settle this conversation. Which is why you are finding both Conservative and Liberal politicians in the US and outside it condemning Trump for his comments and ambiguities on Tuesday.

This is something everyone needs to learn and take to heart.

Despots don't walk up to you with a giant sign saying "Facist Dictator" over their heads, instead the parade around as a "Great Liberator" to the mass's. They emotionally manipulate the general population into thinking the "Great Liberator" will save them from some great evil, real or imagined, and in order for that "Great Liberator" to do so they need to merely give them power. Of course the Great Evil always takes longer to remove then originally though, and the Great Liberator needs even more power and authority to truly root out this insidious evil.

And then you get a Communist government, the state goal of the left.

I can already tell this thread isn't going to last long.

In previous P&R threads you've described Trump as exactly this "Liberator". He even advertises himself as such. #DraintheSwamp = Combatting the Great Evil. MAGA etc.

So it's interesting that the conclusion being drawn by you, is that this is the agenda of the left. In light of the fact that the right currently holds the Executive, the Legislative and Judiciary majority. Not to mention 2/3rds of the state governments.

There isn't a "Champion" on the left. Time and time again you and like minded posters have made comments as such. That they won't take back the seats in 2018 or win back the presidency in 2020.
Which again makes your conclusion a contradiction.

The analysis and conclusion you're making comes off as really bad propaganda to whatever target audience you're hoping to reach.
Which by the way, is no more than 12 active posters and possibly 20-30 lurkers, who more than likely have already made up their minds.

Seems like a waste of time and energy to continue pushing it.

Poll: Support for Trump impeachment grows to 40 percent
The Hill

I only see two problems here.

Trump hasn't done anything impeachable yet.

The GOP still holds congress.

No I haven't, that's just what your mental filter converted it into. You even frequently put words into my mouth and try to draw me into the same cesspit that CJ and Vic live in.

Trump is the result of both parties failing to provide a viable political system that represents their actual citizens. Now if this was a socialist country then we would indeed have a facist dictator take over the government, yet since we have a (still) solid foundation for rule of law coupled with checks and balances, instead we get a loud obnoxious leader who does the exact opposite of his predecessors.

President is a symptom of a deeper problem, nothing more nothing less.

Awwww

That pole was done by Public Religion Research Institute and it did so in Washington DC and Northern Virginia.

Just to give everyone an idea of the demographics of Washington DC.

https://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/district-of-columbia

91% Clinton
4.1% Trump

Every election there is straight blue ticket.

Northern Virginia is still liberal but not quite as bad as DC itself.

So congrats, 40% of those living in DC and NOVA area want Trump impeached.

Aside from the lack of any indication the poll was so geographically restricted, sampling in a poll like that would account for demographics.

I see Trump has gone back to the completely fabricated story of General Pershing. Seems like he is having a bad day on twitter. What else is new?

Oh the California law that Google seems to have broken.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?sectionNum=1101.&lawCode=LAB


California Supreme Court has already ruled that it's a very broad definition and covers all forms of political speech, its the exact law that protects all the SJW's in CA from being fired for pushing left leaning political agendas. Since his memo specifically referenced an ideological chamber at Google, that those of a conservative political belief felt threatened and harassed due to it, and that he sought an open discussion on how to change, it qualifies as protected political activities. That he posted it on an internal Google provided forum specifically designated as a place to discuss improvements in the work culture just adds to it even more.

Basically Google has very little ground to stand on for justifying why they lawfully terminated him because they have already stated why in an attempt to win PR points. Well that stated why doesn't jive well with established labor law and I guarantee Google's labor lawyers went apeshit when they saw someone made a public statement without consulting them.

Such kind descriptive words.


So as to not be accused of putting words in your mouth are you referring to the modern day application of the electoral college or the failings of representative democracy due to money interests? Or something else, socially that you've yet to pontificate on?



It's not a socialist country so again why all the pandering paranoia of cascading political calamity in the previous post?


Care to elaborate what this problem is? It is the second time in your post you alluded to it without description. Again far be it from me to assume what specifically you're referring to; only to suffer the accusation of putting words in your mouth.

It's no big secret that people feel disenfranchised by the federal government. The interesting thing is that everyone tends to have a different reason why.

Again your mental filter and selective memory.

On several occasional, nearly in every thread, I've mentioned how much the left and the right have failed in the USA. You just remove the words from the page because they disagree with your own Political Religion.

The right failed by focusing on "core conservatives" which were just the socially conservative super religious folks and warhawks while ignoring the younger generation of fiscal conservatives who couldn't give a damn about what people do in their bedrooms. Ever since Bush Jr the right has been nothing but "I pray to Jesus to know which breakfast I should eat" and "we need to bomb those heathens".

The left failed by focusing on social change and social justice via enforcement of fascist authoritarian censorship policies. Any dissenting voice is quelled by the mass social bullying coupled with disruption of life and even removal from employment or expulsion from a university. "Don't disagree with us or else" isn't a very endearing thing to do. While doing so the left completely ignored it's traditional worker focused platform, it paid mere lip service to workers while pushing for more power for itself.

Mass disenfranchisement resulted in the population wanting a third party candidate who didn't represent established political interests. Those candidates were Trump and (supposedly) Sanders, the Democrats would never allow another Obama situation where their carefully chosen candidate losing the primary. Established Republicans didn't want Trump at all yet he prevented them from using dirty tactics and ended up handily winning the candidacy.

That's the past year in a nutshell. Though like usual you won't read any of this and just skim over looking for something to attack me with.

Must be hard living with a Religion that states all people are perfectly equal, that any inequality must be the fault of the Evil White European Males (EWEMs) and that you need a big group of perfectly Omnipotent overlords to save the day.