Random Politics & Religion #26

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Random Politics & Religion #26
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By Nausi 2017-08-10 14:25:55
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Norks launch a nuke = trump couldn't get china to stop them. Therefore because we werent nuked before musta meant obama was doing his job.

Vics ideology is very easy to navigate.
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 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2017-08-10 14:26:40
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Viciouss said: »
Lol, Trump has done nothing on NK. Nothing. Unless you count letting them do whatever they want as something. Still waiting on either 1. Action or 2. A plan.

Your cognitive dissonance is astounding. We just got off of 8 years of Obama being absolutely useless when it comes to NK, and now suddenly it's Trump's fault that in 200 days suddenly they're a threat even though they've had miniaturized nukes for years? Maybe if Obama actually had a working plan then Trump could be blamed for not continuing it, but as it stands you're a total hypocrite.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2017-08-10 14:29:00
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Viciouss said: »
There is a long line of Chinese banks that have been financing NK for years, pull the trigger on sanctioning a couple of those big banks and that will actually get their attention fast. Cut them off from access to the US and China might actually give in on NK.
Do you honestly think that's going to work?

Sure, censure the banks, and you will get a response from China. Then again, China would still send money to NK, and you will be left with practically nothing but another ally pissed off at you.

I mean, it's not that hard to send money to NK from a Chinese bank. Hell, you don't even know which bank to censure, so you will end up censuring them all (just to be safe).

Yeah, that's not going to lead up to a war with China, would it Vic?


Like I said before, sanctions won't work in this case. Mainly because you have a 3rd party involved.

Oh yeah, Vic, where's those options you were talking about?
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2017-08-10 14:35:08
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Because we all need more laughter at the expense of California:

Is California Cracking Up?

Remember boys and girls, sources are bad unless they make the current administration look bad.

Quote:
Corporate profits at California-based transnational corporations such as Apple, Facebook and Google are hitting record highs.

California housing prices from La Jolla to Berkeley along the Pacific Coast can top $1,000 a square foot.

It seems as if all of China is willing to pay premium prices to get their children degreed at Caltech, Berkeley, Stanford, UCLA or USC.

Yet California -- after raising its top income tax rate to 13.3 percent and receiving record revenues -- is still facing a budget deficit of more than $1 billion. There is a much more foreboding state crisis of unfunded liabilities and pension obligations of nearly $1 trillion.

Soon, new gas tax hikes, on top of green mandates, might make California gas the most expensive in the nation, despite the state's huge reserves of untapped oil.

Where does the money go, given that the state's schools and infrastructure rank among America's worst in national surveys?

Illegal immigration over the last 30 years, the exodus of millions of middle-class Californians, and huge wealth concentrated in the L.A. basin and Silicon Valley have turned the state into a medieval manor of knights and peasants, with ever fewer in between.

The strapped middle class continues to flee bad schools, high taxes, rampant crime and poor state services. About one-third of the nation's welfare recipients reside in California. Approximately one-fifth of the state lives below the poverty line. More than a quarter of Californians were not born in the United States.

Many of the state's wealthiest residents support high taxes, no-growth green policies and subsidies for the poor. They do so because they reside in apartheid neighborhoods and have the material and political wherewithal to become exempt from the consequences of their own utopian bromides.

Blue California has no two-party politics anymore. Its campuses, from Berkeley to Claremont, have proven among the most hostile to free speech in the nation.

A few things keep California going. Its natural bounty, beauty and weather draw in people eager to play California roulette. The state is naturally rich in minerals, oil and natural gas, timber and farmland. The world pays dearly for whatever techies based in California's universities can dream up.

That said, the status quo is failing.

The skeletons of half-built bridges and overpasses for a $100 billion high-speed-rail dinosaur remind residents of the ongoing boondoggle. Meantime, outdated roads and highways -- mostly unchanged from the 1960s -- make driving for 40 million both slow and dangerous. Each mile of track for high-speed rail represents millions of dollars that were not spent on repairing and expanding stretches of the state's decrepit freeways -- and hundreds of lives needlessly lost each year.

The future of state transportation is not updated versions of 19th-century ideas of railways and locomotives, but instead will include electric-powered and automatically piloted cars -- all impossible without good roads.

Less than 40 percent of California residents identify themselves as conservative. But red-county California represents some 75 percent of California's geographical area. It's as if large, rural Mississippi and tiny urban Massachusetts were one combined state -- all ruled by liberal Boston.

Now, a third of the state thinks it can pull off a "Calexit" and leave the United States. Calexit's unhinged proponents have no idea that they are mimicking the right-wing arguments of the Confederate states that prompted the Civil War. Like South Carolina residents in 1861, Calexit advocates seem to assume that federal law should apply everywhere else except in California. Many of these California residents also believe that the federal Environmental Protection Agency should always override local ordinances, but not so with another federal bureau, Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

South Carolina started the Civil War by shelling and capturing federal property at Fort Sumter in Charleston Bay. Calexit wannabe secessionists similarly assume that thousands of square miles of federal property -- from California federal courtrooms and post offices to national parks such as Yosemite to huge military bases such as Camp Pendleton -- belong to the state and could simply be confiscated from the federal government.

Calexit proponents assume California can leave the union without an authorizing amendment to the Constitution, ratified by three-fourths of all the states. And they fail to see that should California ever secede, it would immediately split in two. The coastal strip would go the way of secessionist Virginia. The other three-quarters of the state's geography would remain loyal to the union and become a new version of loyalist West Virginia.

Buying a home on the California coast is nearly impossible. The state budget can only be balanced through constant tax hikes. Finding a good, safe public school is difficult. Building a single new dam during the California drought to capture record runoff water in subsequent wet years proved politically impossible.

No matter. Many Californians consider those existential problems to be a premodern drag, while they dream of postmodern trains, the legalization of pot-growing -- and seceding from the United States of America.
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By Viciouss 2017-08-10 14:47:59
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Viciouss said: »
There is a long line of Chinese banks that have been financing NK for years, pull the trigger on sanctioning a couple of those big banks and that will actually get their attention fast. Cut them off from access to the US and China might actually give in on NK.
Do you honestly think that's going to work?

Sure, censure the banks, and you will get a response from China. Then again, China would still send money to NK, and you will be left with practically nothing but another ally pissed off at you.

I mean, it's not that hard to send money to NK from a Chinese bank. Hell, you don't even know which bank to censure, so you will end up censuring them all (just to be safe).

Yeah, that's not going to lead up to a war with China, would it Vic?


Like I said before, sanctions won't work in this case. Mainly because of reasons I am making up.

Oh yeah, Vic, where's those options you were talking about?

Thats pretty much the kind of response I was expecting, you don't know anything so just toss some fake retort out there. Just because you don't think it will work doesn't mean it won't, and no, its not gonna cause a war with China, that was a funny read tho.

Not being able to operate in the US would be a huge blow to the Chinese economy. Which is why nobody has ever pulled the trigger on the sanctions. The most we have gotten from Trump is he is "weighing them." Just threatening them means yes KN, they will work. Even if you don't believe it.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2017-08-10 14:53:08
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I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the response somebody gives to punish a country for "bad behavior" is to attack another country that has nothing to do with that "bad behavior" also likes the idea of "thought police" rhetoric.

But then again, that's not a solution. North Korea is still going to pull their ***. Again, your suggestion will lead to nothing more than a pissed-off ally who would more than likely side with North Korea if a war is to break out.

Is that what you want Vic? WWIII?

What am I saying, of course you want WWIII to break out. You want it to break out while Trump is president so you can blame him for causing it, even if NK attacks US!
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By Viciouss 2017-08-10 14:57:08
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Reuters: Trump weighs sanctions on Chinese banks

Quote:
Frustrated that China has not done more to rein in North Korea, the Trump administration could impose new sanctions on small Chinese banks and other firms doing business with Pyongyang within weeks, two senior U.S. officials said.

The U.S. measures would initially hit Chinese entities considered "low-hanging fruit," including smaller financial institutions and "shell" companies linked to North Korea’s nuclear and missile programs, said one of the officials, while declining to name the targets.

It would leave larger Chinese banks untouched for now, the official said.

This was in July, he just needs to pull the trigger. Obviously, it doesn't fit KN's off the rails fantasy narrative of WW3, but thats ok. It also looks like yes, the US knows exactly which banks to target, so we won't have to "hit them all."
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2017-08-10 15:14:43
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But that's not your option. Hell, it wouldn't even do anything, at all.

Even your source says that.

I will admit, I am surprised that you provided a source. There's a first for everything, right?
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2017-08-10 15:15:46
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But hey, if you think that China will do nothing in response, keep living your fantasy. Tell Clinton I said hi.
 
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2017-08-10 18:17:16
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-08-10 18:23:17
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Because we all need more laughter at the expense of California:

Yeah ***is *** up beyond belief out there, good reason why I turned down some job offers. They have astronomical taxes with insane cost of living, creates a huge class divide between executives and workers.
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By Garuda.Chanti 2017-08-10 18:31:20
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Candlejack said: »
Viciouss said: »
Its just too fun to watch nausi spin out trying to blame Obama for the situation in NK, while the real problem continues to fuel the crisis. The only reason NK has made it this far, the only reason NK even exists is China. These new UN sanctions? Easily bypassed by China and NK.
Trump's policy of tweeting about China taking care of NK doesn't count as actual action, as the Chinese just say oh yeah sure, now lets increase trade and accelerate the NK nuke program while Trump tweets. There is a long line of Chinese banks that have been financing NK for years, pull the trigger on sanctioning a couple of those big banks and that will actually get their attention fast. Cut them off from access to the US and China might actually give in on NK.

But in the meantime, fire and fury!
The real blame for North Korea goes back to the time the U.S was involved in the Korean war. Nothing was decisively done back then. But yeah, Nausi will keep trying to blame Obama, like the idiot he is, instead of opening a damned history book.
No. Really. There wouldn't have been a Korean war if we hadn't been implicit and concomitant in the establishment of North Korea.

It goes back to our splitting countries with Russia in the dawn of the cold war.

Its how we got north and south Viet-Nam, just a bit earlier. As it was explained in the far distant past, we felt that both countries would fall under communist rule if left alone. So we arranged for two countries were one had been. We get one, the commies get one, the balance is maintained.

Didn't work out well in either case.
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By Garuda.Chanti 2017-08-10 18:40:16
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Asura.Saevel said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Because we all need more laughter at the expense of California:
Yeah ***is *** up beyond belief out there, good reason why I turned down some job offers. They have astronomical taxes with insane cost of living, creates a huge class divide between executives and workers.
Its going to cure itself due to the magic of the market.

People of average income are fleeing the state. In places like SF or San Jose (silicon valley) the usual low wage hires that tend to run the local drive ins, assorted shopping venues, and even teach at the schools, can't afford to even live within commuting distance.

Some places will close, others will offer wages high enough that their personnel can afford to live within commuting distance.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2017-08-10 19:20:11
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Chanti, promoting free market policies?

HAS THE WORLD GONE MAD????
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-08-10 19:50:44
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Garuda.Chanti said: »
others will offer wages high enough that their personnel can afford to live within commuting distance.

That's the thing, they can't afford to offer those wages. State taxes are obscene and the concentration of mega wealth has caused the average prices to go through the roof. You need $150K/yr just to be remotely comfortable, and that's a single guy with a room mate. If your talking a family then both need to be making over that. One beddroom apartments are over $2000 per month along with all the utility fee's and taxes. On the topic of taxes, thanks to the national progressive tax code, those workers get hit with stupidly high income taxes, then even more stupid state income taxes, then various county and city taxes. Of course that pay is only what the worker see's, that's not counting the, again, obscene payroll tax the employer is having to pay on that pay along with the additional taxes California charges those employers.


Here is the secret of why IT companies seem to be doing ok there, most of their workforce doesn't live in the USA. Teleworking is now the standard, so an IT company in Silicon Valley will hire dozens of developers and technicians in India, through an outsourcing company, to do the bulk of their work while keeping the minimum local staff on hand. This is because for every single local staff they hire, they can instead handsomely pay for ~4 Indian staff. They don't have to pay those obscene taxes either.
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-08-10 20:26:50
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Garuda.Chanti said: »
Candlejack said: »
Viciouss said: »
Its just too fun to watch nausi spin out trying to blame Obama for the situation in NK, while the real problem continues to fuel the crisis. The only reason NK has made it this far, the only reason NK even exists is China. These new UN sanctions? Easily bypassed by China and NK.
Trump's policy of tweeting about China taking care of NK doesn't count as actual action, as the Chinese just say oh yeah sure, now lets increase trade and accelerate the NK nuke program while Trump tweets. There is a long line of Chinese banks that have been financing NK for years, pull the trigger on sanctioning a couple of those big banks and that will actually get their attention fast. Cut them off from access to the US and China might actually give in on NK.

But in the meantime, fire and fury!
The real blame for North Korea goes back to the time the U.S was involved in the Korean war. Nothing was decisively done back then. But yeah, Nausi will keep trying to blame Obama, like the idiot he is, instead of opening a damned history book.
No. Really. There wouldn't have been a Korean war if we hadn't been implicit and concomitant in the establishment of North Korea.

It goes back to our splitting countries with Russia in the dawn of the cold war.

Its how we got north and south Viet-Nam, just a bit earlier. As it was explained in the far distant past, we felt that both countries would fall under communist rule if left alone. So we arranged for two countries were one had been. We get one, the commies get one, the balance is maintained.

Didn't work out well in either case.


That's not how that worked at all... not even close. What you just wrote is 100% pure fiction.


Korea was divided because the Russians refused to honor their wartime agreement on the former Imperial Japanese Territory of Corea. Here is how that all went down.

Long before WWII Japan had invaded Corea (that's how it was romanized back then) and then subsequently enslaved it's people. The history of what the Japanese did to the Korean's makes Hitler look gentle. Seriously imagine ***worse then what the Nazi's did only it went on for over thirty years. During the later period of that time there were several underground guerrilla movements fighting to resist Imperial Japanese control and atrocities. There were other leaders but the most famous of them is Major Kim IlSung who received his commission as an Officer in the Soviet Army and was a member of the Chinese Communist Party. When WWII broke out his previous military success fighting Japan made him the Soviets point man for operations in the Imperial Japanese territory of Corea.

So that's how ***was at the start of the war. During the US's pacific campaign against Imperial Japan the Japanese started to redeploy their military power including the forces in Corea. As Corea had largely been pacified the Japanese didn't see a reason to defend it and it was only lightly garrisoned. As the war was starting to close out, the allies drew up battle plans for the invasion of mainland Japan. Those plans involved an D-day like assault of combined Soviet and US forces from Corea across the Sea of Japan. The US established a base camp in the southern part of the peninsula to protect the valuable ports where the US would stage soldiers and supplies. The soviets again put Major Kim IlSung in charge of their operational area centered around the northern part of the peninsula.

So that's how those forces got stationed there to begin with.

Part of the post-war victory plan involved the Corean people being freed from Imperial Japanese rule and then holding elections and rebuilding as their previous government had been destroyed. The Japanese treated Corea as a colony and the Koreans as local slave labor.

That line we called the DMZ originally was the border between US and Soviet military area's of operation. All multi-national plans involve such borders because it makes a nice separation for which Commanding Officer controls what.

Now instead of a giant combined invasion of Imperial Japan, as planned, we dropped two nuclear weapons and forced them into unconditional surrender, which they did. That meant Corea would be free and make their own government right? Yeah... that didn't happen. Kim IlSung decided he liked being in charge and with the blessing of Communist China and Soviet Russia established himself as the ruler of Corea with his capital being Pyongyang. The Allies didn't like that idea and made it clear that the agreement was for a new democratically elected government, which was made in Seoul.

Now we have two Korea's (damn Americans romanizing it differently). At first there was no war and both sides stayed apart. Kim IlSung went multiple times to Russia to argue for their support in removing the Capitalist Scum from his lands. The Russians didn't want to start a war with the USA so told him no. Eventually he convinced China to help him out after telling them Russia was ~ok~ with it, he lied but it didn't matter because by the time China found out the Korean War had already started.
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-08-10 20:28:15
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Garuda.Chanti said: »
Didn't work out well in either case.

If the USA hadn't insisted on following the original agreement, then there would be only a single Communist Korea under the rule of the Kim dynasty. As that lines up perfectly with your political ideology, I can see why it's an optimal outcome for you.
 
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By Garuda.Chanti 2017-08-11 09:34:43
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Saevel, by sheer coincidence I just read a deep history piece on Korea. Despite the title I think you might want to read it.

What Trump Needs to Know About North Korea's History
The peninsula has a long record of risky games with great powers.

Politico Magazine
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2017-08-11 10:27:24
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We know that the U.S. soldiers will do what they're told. They're part of the best military on the planet. However, an angle that I don't see being explored much is the mental state of the North Korean soldiers.

If you've got a leader that's cuckoo for cocoa puffs, what do you do in the event that he strikes first? Do you patriotically carry out orders knowing that you and your glorious leader stand a good chance of being vaporized, or do you back down and run for the hills?

It sounds like a lot of the scenarios being discussed involve the NK military going all out, but I'm starting to wonder just how loyal some of these soldiers would end up being in an all out war with nothing to gain and everything to lose.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2017-08-11 10:49:57
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
If you've got a leader that's cuckoo for cocoa puffs, what do you do in the event that he strikes first? Do you patriotically carry out orders knowing that you and your glorious leader stand a good chance of being vaporized, or do you back down and run for the hills?
I highly doubt that the average soldier, heck, even some of the lower and mid-tier officers, know the truth of the geopolitical arena. Remember, this is a country that is force-fed propaganda since day 1 of their birth.

The message is simply "Un good, everyone else bad."

So, these soldier would gladly give their lives for a cause that isn't part of reality.
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2017-08-11 11:02:59
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Some good points there. Now the question is this: Will the military stop fighting if Kim Jong Un gets kersploded?
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2017-08-11 11:35:08
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By the looks of it, while the numbers are staggering, the soldiers aren't physically capable of waging war.

Reports of starvation among soldiers

More starvation and ancient military technology

Ideological propaganda, plus overall bad training for conscripted soldiers

That's after a 8 second google search.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2017-08-11 11:35:51
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Some good points there. Now the question is this: Will the military stop fighting if Kim Jong Un gets kersploded?
Maybe. It depends on how he gets kersploded.

If it's an inside job, they will probably fight for the new "dear leader."
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By Garuda.Chanti 2017-08-11 12:02:04
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They finally found the smoking gun!!!

Sorry CJ, not Trump's, Nixon's.

When a Candidate Conspired With a Foreign Power to Win An Election
It took decades to unravel Nixon’s sabotage of Vietnam peace talks. Now, the full story can be told.

Politico Magazine

Its REALLY long but it illustrates how hard it is to find the ultimate, incriminating, piece.

And remember, save for that piece this story has been known for decades.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2017-08-11 12:06:04
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Don't worry Chanti, I'm sure Chuck Schumer will play the "6 degrees to Kevin Bacon" game to not only accuse Trump of colluding with Nixon to not only sabotage Vietnam, but to have Russia collude in last year's election. He will throw in the "Hanging Chad" conspiracy theory on the pile too, so he could delegitimize Bush's presidency too.

Probably throw in a Iran-Contra scandal for good measure.
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2017-08-11 13:10:45
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
By the looks of it, while the numbers are staggering, the soldiers aren't physically capable of waging war.

Reports of starvation among soldiers

More starvation and ancient military technology

Ideological propaganda, plus overall bad training for conscripted soldiers

That's after a 8 second google search.

Ruling by fear and propaganda will only get you so far, it seems. Morale plays a huge role in war, and starvation will always drive morale down whether or not you've been told that your leader can hit a hole in one in golf on every shot.
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