Ou Craft Items - Pricing

Anyone have a good idea of pricing for Ou craft items?

Thinking it takes minimum 6 players * 5 key items to get 1-2 to drop. (Certainly mules and other methods to make this slightly more efficient.....)

And by slightly you mean the crazy mule people will have full control over the market.

1~5m per item as is + ability once all KI obtained to do 3 runs in a row (assuming ki isnt lost upon access like Providence watcher and WoC) then ability to kill it and get drop and win lot I can see this starting at 5m and going up or down around market amount and crafterrs willing to buy

Seeing as I want at least 1 ring and back made I'm going to assume I'll pay no less that 15m in mats for each maybe more

KIs are lost by all members of the party, whether you have a full set or not.

You can Still grab mules to get multiple full set of KI (should be easy since the NM HPs don't scale), then use them one by one to enter Ou

Right but ultimately there's only so many people who actually pay for 2+ accounts. There's a good #, but still a very small percentage.

I paid 10,000,000 for a coral and was happy with it. I will continue to buy them at that price if anyone is selling. I'm sure if I am willing to pay 10,000,000 other crafters are as well.

I figured this is where it would bottom out after a few weeks. I think current price with scarce demand would be 20++

The gate isn't very severe thanks to mules and Ou is allegedly not very difficult. You could comfortably do 3 Ou every 8 runs, which means you would get more moonlight coral than anything else. The only question is how many groups are able to kill all 6 bosses.

Sorry to burst that bubble but straight from the SE website:

Omen has undergone the following additions and adjustments.

A new boss has been added.
* The instance owner must be in possession of five key items to test their mettle against this boss. The other players need not be in possession of these items, but any they have will be removed upon entry.


._.; i guess u can still take mules to soak dmg

Depends on how many mules you have. Say a group of 6 players have 1 mule each.
You bring all 6 while farming KIs, then use only 1 or 2 on each Ou run, that would grant you multiple Ou access if each time you use a different mule to enter and leave some/all other mules outside.

I mean it's not ideal, but still better than requiring EVERYONE to have 5 KIs to be eligible for entry.

So, what he actually means is you take your mules to get the ki, then only take them (one mule per run) to enter your party for Ou. This, of course, has to happen after your main group uses their ki set. That way you only use up that mule's ki when they take you to Omen for that run. Otherwise, it would be ridiculous to take the mules in each time just to have their KIs taken away.

From what I read, KI are lost at the time you warp up to Ou. So, you could even bring all the mules in for the card farm and potentially prebuffs, just warp them out of zone(besides the popper) before going up to boss.

This is true, and a good point if you are interested in getting cards for mules.

This is correct. We also verified on our second Ou kill that only the popper needs KI as none of us had any KI from our first kill earlier in the night.

Just another case where the playerbase is far more intelligent with game mechanics and workarounds than the actual development team.

Exactly what was the point of wiping everyone's KIs upon Ou entry when repeated fights are possible simply from bringing mules to the 5 KIs prior and saving them for future runs? Why not just only wipe the party leader's KIs? It seems like the point of wiping KIs was to make Ou encounters sort of rare and keeping the drops valuable....But that seems pointless because players were smart enough to quickly realize that you could just bring additional bodies to store KIs and then use them in succession later.

I'm having a hard time believing SE didn't know that this is what players would ultimately have done, given the fact that the 18-man entry came in the same update as Ou. Its almost as if SE thought this out about 75% through and gave up. I envision the conversation went something like this:

SE DEV 1: These players are clearing Omen too fast!! We need to introduce more longevity!

SE DEV 2: You mean, besides .0001% body drops?

SE DEV 1: Yes - I'm thinking if we lock entry into this new boss behind 5-KIs, players won't be able to do it daily...which will stretch the content out longer!

SE DEV 2: That sounds grand! We should also wipe the KIs of everyone in party once they enter the fight, to ensure players can only enter once every 6 attempts! This will force static groups to go back and fight those bosses they got their drops from within the first 10 runs. Nothing easy here.

SE DEV 1: That sounds like a solid idea, mate! We'll announce this in the update notes, so players aren't shocked when it happens.

SE DEV 2: Sweeeeeeet.....Let's also allow up to 18 players to join the fight as well, and NOT have the boss's HP scale. New Boss + 18 member card farming is a win for everyone. And these dummies will be stuck on this content for months!! Wow, what a plan!
*both hi five each other*

Give them a bit more credit. They were getting people to include the undergeared or derpy linkshell members that never got a chance while it was 6 man.

Now, not only do they not hurt anything, they provide valuable extra key items. Without the incentive of Ou key items, good 6man groups still aren't going to bring anyone they don't actively like.

Except people aren't bringing their derpy ls members. They're bringing mules. They don't want extra bodies lotting their Ou loot.

if it makes you feel more intelligent to tell yourself SE doesn't know how their own system works, go for it

Sure people are bringing mules for the extra KI's but many LS's have mules/alts that are full-fledged geared characters being used for the same content the mains are doing.

Either way it's a win/win situation since extra KI's are obtained and the alts are getting cards as well for their respective jobs.

Really, truly, honestly...

I think SE has shown on many occasions that they either DON'T know how their own system works, or simply don't care.

I posted that comment tongue-in-cheek. Nothing about comparing my own intelligence vs SE.

I'm fully aware that additional alts are getting cards and KIs. When I used the term "mules", I was typically talking about the same thing.

I wasn't entirely being negative with my commentary, but was more so confused as to why KIs are wiped from additional players to begin with? This seems odd, and only encourages more people to bring additional characters just for the sole purpose of holding more KIs and farming more Ous. Most of the hardcore groups have already gotten everything (minus bodies) from the original 5, so the idea of repeating those 5 fights for KIs is silly, if it can be minimized. What incentive is there to actually bring more (weaker) players to the event when they are effectively adding nothing but a KI set they could just as easily obtain on an alt? They're already clearing it with 6 ppl.

I get that it helps players, and I'm totally all for that. But the process of KI wiping from everybody (whether part or full) doesn't make a lick of sense.

Which do you think is more of... players that couldn't make the cut before but now can go in because they are at least useful for something or people with mules that have gotten all the way thru missions on that they weren't already doing omen runs with?

I'm not doubting this reasoning, I'm really not. But when you say "they are at least useful for something", you're ignoring a few key things:
1)They could have already farmed cards solo or with a shout group
2)The KI serves no purpose for them, because they can't beat the content to begin with. The best they can do is sell it, or convince a group to do it for them and let them lot an item in return
3)There are players who 3-6 box stuff on a regular basis. What is the actual incentive of bringing someone along to use their KI when they can just use an alt and get the same thing done (5 KI Ou pop set)?
edit: 4) You're underestimating playerbase' greed/need for more bag-grabs. People will level 2-3 accounts and finish their missions without hesitation for more chances at Omen, because they already do it for stuff like VW, ambuscade, etc. If it means players can cut down on competition and increase their own odds, it will be done.

Again, I'm not disagreeing that there are far more people who are locked out of Omen Boss content than people who have 2-6 extra bodies to bring to Omen. You are correct. The fact that this is now 18-man means that randoms can actually get some of the gear they never could before (though they could have just merced it). That's great. But I'm just not totally seeing the complete logic in bringing 6 extra weak players solely for extra KIs (because that's what you're bringing them for), where that means the static group has to lot against 6 other players now, as opposed to just the original group who would have brought 6 extra alts.

Protip: You don't have to allow people to lot something just because they're in ally.

This game has a constant quitting/returning stream of players that are significantly behind and would be happy to come for something to do, some cards, and some of the less desirable loot.

It's not that much different than the constant 'xxx lock' shouts you see.



The point to removing KI from everyone that participates is to require you bring extras if you want extra runs. For some, that means mules. For many, it doesn't. Many groups consist of 6 or less and fill the gaps as needed.. if they want more Ou, they include more people. If only popper lost KI, there'd be essentially no incentive to change the 6man setup.. you'd still be doing more Ou runs than other runs.

So let me understand this. You're going to invite a scrub with 5 KIs to your omen group, to allow entry to Ou, and not allow him to lot on Ou's drops, which entry would only be possible because of said scrub?

Do you not have any friends who are undergeared and get invited to events to take what they can benefit from without taking the top gear from the event? When you do vagary, do you ask if anyone needs clears without offering them the gil drops? If you do Pakecet for a jovian body, do you ask if anyone needs the ve.body or other less desirable drops and wants to come?

It's not really that complicated a concept. Now that people tagging along is an option, they will eventually accumulate sets that have value. Bring someone who needs some of the gear you don't(glassy stuff.. boss drops you're capped on.. cards..) to all of the boss runs in exchange for popping an additional Ou for your group.

I really don't think the average 6man group can easily pull a half dozen mules together. The amount of missions needed to get to Omen is staggering. Everyone I know that has mules with omen access was already using them for omen while it was 6man.. to the exclusion of everyone else.

I fail to see how any of that addresses what I said... especially when you add some quote marks saying I said something that wasn't in what you quoted...


edit: Oh I see you edited one thing to so that your wall of text at least has a small portion actually responding to your quote. To respond to that no I don't underestimate that. I myself actually did run a mule thru to try for more runs and I can tell you I'd much rather lvl get multiple mules up thru for vw runs or ambuscade than a single another for omen. Going thru from scratch was a rather huge pain and that's with the mule already having all the transportation needed and having other accounts to run it thru. I'm definitely not making back the opportunity cost of that anytime soon. Now imagine doing that with enough where you filled your alliance and having all those accounts. Regardless this is a thread about people doing this for the money drops... if that's the case yeah why not grab some weak characters. They get the gear you got long ago you get the cash.

No.

If they are adding more people for more Ou, the extras are going to have to sit out (or warp out BEFORE boss floor) to retain their KIs. They would be brought along for the 5 bosses, and then told to sit out at least one Ou fight, so the initial KIx5 can be spent and then the group can use the extra(s) to enter again. They are only being added to the next run where they need that person for the KI. Or better yet, you're having them warp out before the boss to retain your set of KIs while accumulating cards (but wasting a canteen).

You're giving SE too much credit here. They did not foresee people stockpiling KIs on alts and running Ou omen runs back to back. They specifically made the gear quite strong, and locked it behind a 5 KI entry (which wipes from everyone) for the purpose of keeping the gear rare and the content lasts longer. Not because they want you to include more people for more runs.

I agreed that there are more players who can now do it with 18man setup than mules going around, but that question gives an incomplete answer to the actual point I was making prior, which was that the extra bodies create more competition for lotting on boss floor.


The difference is that with Pakecet, you're probably paying for the pop item. In omen, the extra person is paying with 5 Key items, and his own Canteen. When was the last time you saw a group, shout group, merc group, any group offer to kill an NM for someone, but required them to supply their own pops, but locked out of certain items, but the rest of the group benefits from the best items? You can bring extra bodies along to reap rewards. But how exactly are you enforcing that they can't lot on the boss items when they are supplying the pop themselves? I've never seen it.