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High End Sets Advice/Suggestions/Ideas/LUA
 Asura.Saevel
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9933
By Asura.Saevel 2017-06-19 22:58:38
You don't need a spreadsheet, you can do the math yourself. It would also get you familiar with all the nitty gritty mechanics on damage.
*Update*
I have considered dropping a shiva for niq ring for those QA spikes, but uncertain if that would be wisest. To bad drk doesnt have a spreadsheet.
Worked it out a bit and it comes down to how much are you getting from 9 INT. Luckily QA procs first in WS's so it's easy to figure out how much it's improving. One QA gives you three extra hits on a four hit WS that copies fTP, so +75% increase in damage and you roll QA twice. So the probability of a QA ~not~ happening is 0.9409 which means 5.91% of the time you should get at least one QA. Ends up being a 9~10% increase in average Entropy numbers depending on how much other MA you have, and since this is DRK, it's not a lot.
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 Asura.Syto
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 446
By Asura.Syto 2017-06-20 03:32:16
Yeah according to Saevel, all you need is a napkin....
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Asura.Saevel
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9933
By Asura.Saevel 2017-06-20 06:43:55
By Yandaime 2017-06-20 09:32:25
Should be able to just take one of the older spreadsheets and modify it for current day. The core mechanics have not changed except for a broad-scale Evasion reduction to Targets and the addition of Smite Traits
The Evasion Down was what? Roughly -100 Evasion across the board? So you could literally download the BLU spreadsheet (Updated fairly regularly) and copy the Target stats.
As for Smite, if you are Spreadsheet savy, adding a table with additional attack traits should be simple enough. Or you could very well just ignore them too unless you are hung up between two pieces that have different attack values or something.
To Saeval's point. Yes, you do not actually need a sreadsheet to find the answer that you seek. You can math it out. However.. It's tedious. So is retrofitting a Spreadsheet lol but at least from there it can be shared to the masses.
Asura.Saevel
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9933
By Asura.Saevel 2017-06-20 09:47:01
You can math it out. However.. It's tedious.
I encourage people to learn and practice doing their own math for the same reason High school physics teachers do, it brings familiarity with the numbers and how they relate to each other. The problem with over-reliance on spreadsheets is people not knowing what they are and then thinking their authoritative. At best they are a numerical simulation of a person whacking on an infinite HP monster that doesn't fight back. Essentially the "practice dummy" other MMO's tend to have. Good for tuning weapon skill sets and tweaking multi-hit rates, but not realistic for actual battle. Battles are far too complicated with too many variables to math out to perfect precision which is why spreadsheets make great guides but aren't scripture.
Now once someone knows the core battle damage mechanics, they can use the spreadsheets for the real purpose, fine-tuning their build.
The Evasion Down was what? Roughly -100 Evasion across the board?
It was a lot more complicated then that. SE didn't reduce the NM's evasion directly, instead they altered the per-level increase past ~100. Before they were getting +35 evasion per level, now they are getting +30. Also SE capped the amount of evasion bonus they got from AGI to a fairly low number. The results of those two had CL150 content going from 2100+ evasion to ~1750 evasion. CL145 went from 1700+ to ~1500. This change is what made the Outer and Inner Raz Apex camps possible since those things are really high level.
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1326
By Asura.Azagarth 2017-06-20 11:59:09
For all those following my abs test's, welp in for good/sad news. The NQ black hands/legs give the SAME extra duration as the HQ. I found both to give 6:57 abs base over multiple casts. Means that outside of ScarletD stuff, the HQ set is just a white box for usefulness.... quite sad I literally went 0/42 on legs this week trying for them for nothing lol, in the end had to borrow another drks Onyx legs to test!
I still think getting nq hands/legs is worthwhile for any drk now, but make sure you have a toggle for high macc and low macc sets, as you would NEVER cast in black gear on higher lv mobs.
Asura.Syto
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 446
By Asura.Syto 2017-06-20 11:59:36
Lol :P
I would continue to tease ya, but then it would be too harsh.
I respect you too much to go so far.. Even though it's soo tempting.. anyways..lol
I would turn into a Kingnobody and condescend past the diarrhea that he brings so proudly to these forums..lol
Quetzalcoatl.Langly
Serveur: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 685
By Quetzalcoatl.Langly 2017-06-20 12:02:20
Should be able to just take one of the older spreadsheets and modify it for current day. The core mechanics have not changed except for a broad-scale Evasion reduction to Targets and the addition of Smite Traits
You'd want to make changes to the pDIF data entries as those changed depending on weapon type.
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Asura.Saevel
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9933
By Asura.Saevel 2017-06-20 12:12:09
Discussing stuff with Rua and he reminded me of CM so I worked it into a SC and it's pretty potent (especially in Escha with HP/MP vorseals).
Insurgency -> Entropy -> CM -> Cross Reaper -> Entropy
Four step Darkness to Umbra using CM to boost CR damage and then refilling MP with the final Entropy. Really seems to be the only good use for CM though, once a minute you can do a pretty bad *** CR to boost a following darkness. 750MP is +75 BDMG or about the same effect as +125 STR, not to shabby if the WS has a good fTP multiplier on it's first hit.
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Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1326
By Asura.Azagarth 2017-06-20 13:36:26
I math out how an extremely aggressive player who knows their TP rate and csn WS right as they get TP, which is a good DD. If your waiting or simply too slow then go switch to COR or GEO and let real DDs do it right.
I am not sure why you even talk to Rua, by your standards hes a bad DD who should only be cor or geo so real dds can do the fighting! I find you one of the most amusing on ffxiah Saevel, im just roughing your feathers a bit dont get moody and math me to death :D
Rua's video is fun to watch for sure, I have been doing that on drk for awhile now and its a very fun sc to do and finally gives some merit to an otherwise next to useless JA. You can also see from his tp gain just how nice scythe gains tp and the massive overflow that it has, its one reason my CR avgs are so high, that overflow is just insane, especially with a cor in ty when your getting 400~+ tp a hit.
What 3 step umbra do you do rua? I often find I go from under 1k tp to 2k in a round and at those times I would like to maximize a 2k entropy starter to umbra in 3 steps.
Asura.Saevel
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9933
By Asura.Saevel 2017-06-20 13:56:46
I math out how an extremely aggressive player who knows their TP rate and csn WS right as they get TP, which is a good DD. If your waiting or simply too slow then go switch to COR or GEO and let real DDs do it right.
I am not sure why you even talk to Rua, by your standards hes a bad DD who should only be cor or geo so real dds can do the fighting! I find you one of the most amusing on ffxiah Saevel, im just roughing your feathers a bit dont get moody and math me to death :D
Rua's video is fun to watch for sure, I have been doing that on drk for awhile now and its a very fun sc to do and finally gives some merit to an otherwise next to useless JA. You can also see from his tp gain just how nice scythe gains tp and the massive overflow that it has, its one reason my CR avgs are so high, that overflow is just insane, especially with a cor in ty when your getting 400~+ tp a hit.
What 3 step umbra do you do rua? I often find I go from under 1k tp to 2k in a round and at those times I would like to maximize a 2k entropy starter to umbra in 3 steps.
Soloing something is different from doing multi-step SC is different from WS spam. We were discussing WS spam earlier. Each of those tactics requires mastery of a different play style and don't conflate the results of one with the other. If your doing Scythe raw DPS (for whatever reason) then you would spam CR at 1K, if your doing multi-step SC's then it's about hitting the windows and that usually creates a situation where your have TP overflow from waiting an attack round in-between windows.
Four step not three, Insurgency (Fusion) -> Entropy (Gravitation / AM activation) [Gravitation Created] -> Cross Reaper (Distortion) [Darkness Created] -> Entropy (Gravitation / Darkness) [Umbra Created].
You can use Quietus as the Umbra at the end if your target has a ***ton of defense because Quietus is very consistent. You can even add a CR to the beginning to turn it into a five step if you want. The way SC multipliers work for T3's is that every preceding SC adds a 0.5 multiplier to the base of 1.0 (Radiance is 2.0 base). A three step Umbra SC would be 1.5 and 2.5 as the final two multipliers. Four step would be 2.0 and 3.0 multipliers, five step would be 2.5 and 3.5 multipliers. So at a four step, if the CR did 30K then your darkness would be 30 * 2.0 = 60K, and if the following Entropy did 20K it would be 20 * 3.0 = 60K. Then add any SC damage bonus to that. At five step the same two WS's do 75K and 70K, then the SC Bonus from the Aeonic AM makes it bigger (and there are some other minor increases). Don't need to save TP or anything fancy and is extremely repeatable. More steps introduces more chances for interruption and tighter timings at the back end so plan accordingly. You can do three step but that starts to defeat the purpose of multi-step SC's, Entropy -> CR -> Entropy is the three step.
As for TP gain, when doing Multi-Step you want consistent predictable TP gain over sporadic jumps. When you need to kill OU in that last phase, getting unlucky with MA procs and thus breaking your SC is a very bad thing.
Neat info, four step light with Scythe is
Entropy -> Guillotine -> Entropy -> Insurgency
Damage is kinda mediocre but if you don't have Rag then it might beat Torc spamming.
By Taint 2017-06-20 14:04:33
Does Apoc and access to Catastrophe help any of the Multi steps?
Asura.Saevel
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9933
By Asura.Saevel 2017-06-20 14:10:15
Does Apoc and access to Catastrophe help any of the Multi steps?
Cata is just Darkness / Gravitation the same as Entropy (Gravitation / Darkness / Umbra) and Quietus (Distortion / Darkness). Cata's damage is lower then Cross Reaper, Entropy and about the same as Quietus depending on target so it doesn't really change anything. You can do the same four or five step multi-step and just end it with Cata instead of Entropy since Entropy won't have Darkness property due to not using Anguta.
By Taint 2017-06-20 14:13:50
Does Apoc and access to Catastrophe help any of the Multi steps?
Cata is just Darkness / Gravitation the same as Entropy (Gravitation / Darkness / Umbra) and Quietus (Distortion / Darkness). Cata's damage is lower then Cross Reaper, Entropy and about the same as Quietus depending on target so it doesn't really change anything. You can do the same four or five step multi-step and just end it with Cata instead of Entropy since Entropy won't have Darkness property due to not using Anguta.
So Apoc is dead if you have an Aeonic group. Interesting, thanks!
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1326
By Asura.Azagarth 2017-06-20 14:19:43
I still use apoc for certain things, the fact you can fill your hp at will basically is very hand in a lot of situations. Also in a PUG its a great begging weapon to see if your whm is going to suc or not haha.
Asura.Saevel
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9933
By Asura.Saevel 2017-06-20 14:44:31
Apoc is for when you are soloing and / or don't have a reliable healer. If you do have a reliable healer then for gods sake don't use Apoc, all you are doing is costing your WHM MP.
Cure IV = 80MP (/SCH) = 1000HP (just random semi reasonable number) healed = 60MP refund for a 20MP cost. DRK does Cata to restore HP as the WHM is casting Cure IV, the WHM just spent the same 80MP but got no refund. Same situation if they are casting Curaga III / IV because there was an AoE, the same situation you would use Cata and thus cost them MP.
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Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3300
By Fenrir.Skarwind 2017-06-20 15:14:00
Hi Azagarth I downloaded your LUA from a few pages back. The one that uses multiple weapons. I edited and it works fine with Ragnarok.
I tried swapping out Apocalypse to Cronus and I'm getting:
:365: attempt to index field 'Cronus" (a nil value)
I'll upload it but I used the search/replace option in word pad to change apoc-> cronus. Afterwards I saved it and reopened in a lua editor.
So basically where it is hanging up:
Quote: -- Cronus TP Sets --
sets.TP.Cronus.SAM = {main="Cronus",
ammo="Ginsen",
head="Flamma Zucchetto +1",
hands="Sulevia's Gauntlets +2",
legs="Odyssean cuisses",
feet="Flamma Gambieras +1",
neck="Ganesha's mala",
body="Valorous Mail",
waist="Ioskeha belt",
right_ear="Cessance Earring",
left_ear="Brutal earring",
left_ring="Petrov Ring",
right_ring="Niqmaddu Ring",
back="Ankou's Mantle",}
sets.TP.Cronus.MidACC = set_combine(sets.TP.Cronus,{
ammo="Seething Bomblet",
hands="Emicho Gauntlets",})
sets.TP.Cronus.HighACC = set_combine(sets.TP.Cronus.MidACC,{
ammo="Ginsen",
head="Ignominy Burgonet +3",
body="Ignominy Cuirass +3",
legs="Ignominy Flanchard +3",
left_ring="Regal Ring",
feet=ValoFeet.STPACC,})
-- Cronus(High Haste) TP Sets --
sets.TP.Cronus.HighHaste = set_combine(sets.TP.Cronus,{waist="Windbuffet Belt +1",})
sets.TP.Cronus.MidACC.HighHaste = set_combine(sets.TP.Cronus.MidACC,{waist="Windbuffet Belt +1",})
sets.TP.Cronus.HighACC.HighHaste = set_combine(sets.TP.Cronus.HighACC,{waist="Windbuffet Belt +1",})
-- Cronus(SAM Roll) TP Sets --
sets.TP.Cronus.STP = set_combine(sets.TP.Cronus,{neck="Ganesha's Mala",left_ear="Brutal earring",})
sets.TP.Cronus.MidACC.STP = set_combine(sets.TP.Cronus.MidACC,{neck="Ganesha's Mala",left_ring="Regal Ring",})
sets.TP.Cronus.HighACC.STP = set_combine(sets.TP.Cronus.HighACC,{ammo="Seething Bomblet",})
-- Cronus(High Haste + SAM Roll) TP Sets --
sets.TP.Cronus.HighHaste.STP = set_combine(sets.TP.Cronus.STP,{waist="Windbuffet Belt +1",})
sets.TP.Cronus.MidACC.HighHaste.STP = set_combine(sets.TP.Cronus.MidACC.STP,{waist="Windbuffet Belt +1",})
sets.TP.Cronus.HighACC.HighHaste.STP = set_combine(sets.TP.Cronus.HighACC.STP,{waist="Windbuffet Belt +1",})
------------ /sam sets --------------------------------
-- Cronus/SAM TP Sets --
sets.TP.Cronus.SAM = {main="Cronus",
ammo="Ginsen",
head="Flamma Zucchetto +1",
hands="Sulevia's Gauntlets +2",
legs="Odyssean cuisses",
feet="Flamma Gambieras +1",
neck="Ganesha's mala",
body="Valorous Mail",
waist="Ioskeha belt",
right_ear="Cessance Earring",
left_ear="Brutal earring",
left_ring="Petrov Ring",
right_ring="Niqmaddu Ring",
back="Ankou's Mantle",}
sets.TP.Cronus.SAM.MidACC = set_combine(sets.TP.Cronus.SAM,{
ammo="Seething Bomblet",
hands="Flamma Manopolas +1",})
sets.TP.Cronus.SAM.HighACC = set_combine(sets.TP.Cronus.SAM.MidACC,{
ammo="Ginsen",
head="Ignominy Burgonet +3",
body="Ignominy Cuirass +3",
legs="Ignominy Flanchard +3",
left_ring="Regal Ring",
feet=ValoFeet.STPACC,})
-- Cronus(High Haste) /SAM TP Sets --
sets.TP.Cronus.SAM.HighHaste = set_combine(sets.TP.Cronus.SAM,{waist="Windbuffet Belt +1",})
sets.TP.Cronus.SAM.MidACC.HighHaste = set_combine(sets.TP.Cronus.SAM.MidACC,{waist="Windbuffet Belt +1",})
sets.TP.Cronus.SAM.HighACC.HighHaste = set_combine(sets.TP.Cronus.SAM.HighACC,{waist="Windbuffet Belt +1",})
-- Cronus(SAM Roll) /SAM TP Sets --
sets.TP.Cronus.SAM.STP = set_combine(sets.TP.Cronus.SAM,{neck="Ganesha's Mala",left_ear="Brutal earring",})
sets.TP.Cronus.SAM.MidACC.STP = set_combine(sets.TP.Cronus.SAM.MidACC,{neck="Ganesha's Mala",left_ring="Regal Ring",})
sets.TP.Cronus.SAM.HighACC.STP = set_combine(sets.TP.Cronus.SAM.HighACC,{ammo="Seething Bomblet",})
-- Cronus(High Haste + SAM Roll) /SAM TP Sets --
sets.TP.Cronus.SAM.HighHaste.STP = set_combine(sets.TP.Cronus.SAM.STP,{waist="Windbuffet Belt +1",})
sets.TP.Cronus.SAM.MidACC.HighHaste.STP = set_combine(sets.TP.Cronus.SAM.MidACC.STP,{waist="Windbuffet Belt +1",})
sets.TP.Cronus.SAM.HighACC.HighHaste.STP = set_combine(sets.TP.Cronus.SAM.HighACC.STP,{waist="Windbuffet Belt +1",})
I already specified it in the weapon list at the start of the file.
By zaxtiss 2017-06-20 16:40:05
don't use wordpad it has different formatting that will mess up your lua id redownload it and use notepad++ to edit it.
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3300
By Fenrir.Skarwind 2017-06-20 16:59:23
don't use wordpad it has different formatting that will mess up your lua id redownload it and use notepad++ to edit it.
Alright thanks, only used wordpad to do a fast replace.
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 98
By Fenrir.Pertalee 2017-06-20 17:24:30
You can do a fast replace in notepad++. All you need to do is add Cronos at the type under Apoc weapons, you dont need to change anything else. (Just update the apoc sets with cronos gear)
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1326
By Asura.Azagarth 2017-06-20 17:37:58
notepad++ : ctrl+f > replace > find what put Apocalypse > Replace with put Cronus > choose replace all > //gs reload ingame and see if any errors.
Also I have made many changes to that file, but its not done yet so be on the lookout, I took out a lot of non-essentials for me and added lots of sets.
Serveur: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 118
By Odin.Warusha 2017-06-20 19:46:35
Apoc is for when you are soloing and / or don't have a reliable healer. If you do have a reliable healer then for gods sake don't use Apoc, all you are doing is costing your WHM MP.
Cure IV = 80MP (/SCH) = 1000HP (just random semi reasonable number) healed = 60MP refund for a 20MP cost. DRK does Cata to restore HP as the WHM is casting Cure IV, the WHM just spent the same 80MP but got no refund. Same situation if they are casting Curaga III / IV because there was an AoE, the same situation you would use Cata and thus cost them MP. My God... This. For the love of all that's unholy, evil, (nobody has ever been so misunderstood and mistreated), etc. ... please don't spam catastrophe unless you can see your WHM is out of mp or can't cure. My cure 6 does about 1950 or so. Please feel free to go nuts when you have 5k+ HP. Go nuts without your Apocalypse.
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1326
By Asura.Azagarth 2017-06-20 19:48:34
I put on Dacnomania and lose 45% of my hp a swing :D makes for fun times!
Asura.Saevel
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9933
By Asura.Saevel 2017-06-20 21:08:30
I put on Dacnomania and lose 45% of my hp a swing :D makes for fun times!
Best way to convert WHM's MP into damage!
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By Blazed1979 2017-06-20 23:23:23
I think it is pretty straight forward; Apoc is your best option when you're doing things alone/small group without a healer, or when you have to set off on your own and not have support (Omen for example -"hey DRK go do WS's/JA's/Crit hits on your own") or when you want to do things like farm Beads on the 3 dragons, alone. You would have trusts in a situation like that I guess. Or might choose to do it on a more efficient job that can score much higher on evaluations like BLU. It has its niche, it has just gotten really small. Some were arguing that it has high dps, is a force to be reckoned with. I get amazing results from Liberator, easily. I've tried to make Apoc compare, but it seems to be beyond my grasp. It is an easy 15-25% behind Liberator.
Leviathan.Vedder
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 306
By Leviathan.Vedder 2017-06-24 14:39:59
Ok so just got my af+3 legs and am curious if they're gonna beat my odyssean (2STR 29acc 31atk 3wsmg) on torc/cata/cross/quietus. 10 DA the bonus acc(have+3body and using +2 head atm in most ws sets as I often ride souleater) and higher atk and base stats. Obv using them for entro/insurg/reso. Also have the sul+2 legs but I'm pretty sure they're behind the pack but not 100%
As for the whole apoc thing. Its all I has atm, working on making my own ratri, and caladbolg is in the process, but I'm pulling a lot of hate (have a 5hit [4hit+ws] with 41da/6ta/7qa) lately so spamming cross/cata is my main thing and when hate free cross/insurg. Also looking for solid entropy builds.
I do try using mont+1 but survivability is a huge issue right now
Ramuh.Austar
Serveur: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10481
By Ramuh.Austar 2017-06-24 20:30:21
ratri > af+3 > your odyssean but only a couple of % difference between them for cata.
Leviathan.Vedder
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 306
By Leviathan.Vedder 2017-06-24 21:36:46
Thanks was thinking as much but wanted another opinion. Torc is gonna require me spamming stones for that mystical unicorn of stat combos. Trying to get them into a tp set but its looking like a wash with what I currently use since the leg slot is so vital for stp+ody(have 12stp in that slot)and any trade offs look pretty bad
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1326
By Asura.Azagarth 2017-06-24 23:31:40
You can see what I use on the main page, Ratri is not for torc, dont do it please lol :D
For torc you want ody legs with 15 vit 4 wsd plus as much acc and then attack as possible. If your not at 10vit+ and 4 wsd keep going for it! Taupe is cheap as ***now :D
For scythe ws sets, mine on front page are really spot on, just go for those sets and your dmg will be fine. Ratri+1 feet I dont expect people to have, so use sulevias+2 on feet slott and bingo your set for great CR #s :D and cata is basically same set.
Ramuh.Austar
Serveur: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10481
By Ramuh.Austar 2017-06-25 00:17:22
ig. +3 legs are close enough that I wouldn't go out of my way to get ratri if you don't already have them.
Welcome To advanced drk thread! Read spoiler if its your first time here. So I have been contemplating to start a new thread like this as it seemed redundant, but Some people have suggested/asked if I would. The drk guide is great and getting updated quickly, so this is by no means to replace or even compete with that. If your new, have fun reading this guide, but post Q's in the normal forums for beginning things. The focus here is true endgame such as Helms, etc.
The idea of this thread is for HIGH END sets only. We can theory craft about other sets too for such content. I highly suggest that if you plan to post/comment in this Thread that you also Post your sets for people to see. Less pages of crap posts is better (fighting), I hate panning through 117+ pages of dark thread to find an answer, lets not do that here.
I will personally try and keep my sets as up to date as possible, with augment remarks. I feel this wil help alot more than "Its to variable!", that helps no one asking. While augments are a pain in the butt, non-DM augments can be closely replicated between players, it does require a lot of stones/time, but if you're here its bc you have said gil/time probably. I find that between high end drks, augs start to look closely the same. Maybe DRK A got 5 acc 1 stp more on said piece, but 7 acc 1 stp less on another compared to DRK B, so in the end they are nearly identical. Don't include DM augs when making suggestions without mentioning its a DM aug.
I also have included below after my sets my lua, the gear sets will not match what I post here and what is there since one (probably lua) or the other could be out of date. However the basic format of the Lua is what matters, so use that too. Lets talk and code in some needed things and get a really good Lua built for the community too. I would love to have someone who has the know-how to make a DRK spreadsheet and I will publish it here too. Nearly every forum at least has one and I have yet to find an up to date spreadsheet for drk.
Enjoy and be nice!
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