Random Politics & Religion #19

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Random Politics & Religion #19
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2017-02-10 13:42:12
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Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Research requires money and staff. You should take these revelations straight to the Daily Mail.
Right, and in order to keep the free money train rolling, you must show that a problem exists. If the data says otherwise, then the data be damned! If there's protocols that prevent bad data from being published, then the protocols be damned! If it's better to report unverified data before a global summit about your profession so you can get billions more for research in hopes that the next batch of data is in your favor (you know, rerolling and hoping for a 11), then you got to do what you got to to!

But hey, keep defending a bunch of unethical, moneygrubbing "scientists" who have to lie in order to get paid. Makes you look good, right?
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By fonewear 2017-02-10 13:43:11
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My research requires Wikipedia. And I never contribute anything to them !
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 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2017-02-10 13:45:45
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Weren't most of the studies that determined that there was a pause in warming peer-reviewed and scientifically sound? So, if one new study shows that the pause never existed is also peer-reviewed and scientifically sound, why should we believe the new one? Why should we believe any of them? Does the one with the most gloom and doom always take top priority because it has the biggest impact on political agendas?
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 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2017-02-10 13:47:16
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Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Research requires money and staff. You should take these revelations straight to the Daily Mail.
But why do all the research papers come from those who do the research? Isn't that extremely suspicious?!?!?
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2017-02-10 13:47:50
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Weren't most of the studies that determined that there was a pause in warming peer-reviewed and scientifically sound? So, if one new study shows that the pause never existed is also peer-reviewed and scientifically sound, why should we believe the new one? Why should we believe any of them? Does the one with the most gloom and doom always take top priority because it has the biggest impact on political agendas?
The answer is simple: They were peer-reviewed by the wrong kind of "scientist." AKA the one's who actually care about the science and not about the politics behind it.
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 Lakshmi.Zerowone
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2017-02-10 13:49:36
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Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Research requires money and staff. You should take these revelations straight to the Daily Mail.
But why do all the research papers come from those who do the research? Isn't that extremely suspicious?!?!?

Fake Science = Fake Research
 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2017-02-10 13:49:57
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Ramyrez said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Bitterness. Population: You.
Let's be honest.

We're posting here.

We're all bitter to some degree. No one spends time here as there preferred activity.
I'm not bitter in the least. I come here because its fun, its safe, and sometimes I get to learn something new.
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2017-02-10 13:51:01
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And here's some more false equivalence.

Anyone else wants to take a turn on the Wheel of Logical Fallacies?
 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2017-02-10 13:52:01
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Garuda.Chanti said: »
its safe
I'm not sure.

*wears gloves when posting*
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 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2017-02-10 13:55:49
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Weren't most of the studies that determined that there was a pause in warming peer-reviewed and scientifically sound? So, if one new study shows that the pause never existed is also peer-reviewed and scientifically sound, why should we believe the new one? Why should we believe any of them? Does the one with the most gloom and doom always take top priority because it has the biggest impact on political agendas?
That's how science works. Conclusions are made on the best data at the time and when new data is presented or corrections made then new conclusions may be made. It's like saying that science once believed the sun circled the earth but now they think the reverse. So which is it?!
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2017-02-10 14:01:07
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Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Weren't most of the studies that determined that there was a pause in warming peer-reviewed and scientifically sound? So, if one new study shows that the pause never existed is also peer-reviewed and scientifically sound, why should we believe the new one? Why should we believe any of them? Does the one with the most gloom and doom always take top priority because it has the biggest impact on political agendas?
That's how science works. Conclusions are made on the best data at the time and when new data is presented or corrections made then new conclusions may be made. It's like saying that science once believed the sun circled the earth but now they think the reverse. So which is it?!
So, are you saying that it's sound science to use unverified data? It's sound science to go around protocols that are designed to prevent bad data from being published?
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 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2017-02-10 14:04:41
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Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Weren't most of the studies that determined that there was a pause in warming peer-reviewed and scientifically sound? So, if one new study shows that the pause never existed is also peer-reviewed and scientifically sound, why should we believe the new one? Why should we believe any of them? Does the one with the most gloom and doom always take top priority because it has the biggest impact on political agendas?
That's how science works. Conclusions are made on the best data at the time and when new data is presented or corrections made then new conclusions may be made. It's like saying that science once believed the sun circled the earth but now they think the reverse. So which is it?!

I'm fully aware of how science and, more specifically, research works. The fact remains that to accept this new finding is to assume that everything about the pause was wrong, but according to the Left you must have been an idiot to assume they were wrong at the time, and you must be an idiot to assume they're wrong right now. We're not talking about centuries of accepted science like the rotation of the planets, we're talking about huge assumptions and conclusions that are struck down and changed as we speak.
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 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2017-02-10 14:14:50
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Research requires money and staff. You should take these revelations straight to the Daily Mail.
Right, and in order to keep the free money train rolling, you must show that a problem exists....
No, beople get grants for basic blue sky research. Example.

Quote:
But hey, keep defending a bunch of unethical, moneygrubbing "scientists" who have to lie in order to get paid. Makes you look good, right?
You mean the ones working for the energy companies, right?
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By Ramyrez 2017-02-10 14:17:06
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Garuda.Chanti said: »
Ramyrez said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Bitterness. Population: You.
Let's be honest.

We're posting here.

We're all bitter to some degree. No one spends time here as there preferred activity.
I'm not bitter in the least. I come here because its fun, its safe, and sometimes I get to learn something new.

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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2017-02-10 14:17:08
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The DeVos Apocalypse

Quote:
The extraordinary battle over Betsy DeVos’s nomination to be secretary of education is the defining event of the Trump presidency’s early days.

As presented, the DeVos confirmation appeared to be a standard partisan conflict between Democrats and Republicans, or in the conventional update, all that’s good and all that’s Trump.

But something deeper was at stake here, which is why the Democrats raised the nomination for a second-level cabinet post to a political apocalypse.

The person who introduced Mrs. DeVos at her confirmation hearing was former Democratic Sen. Joe Lieberman from Connecticut, arguably the last of the unequivocal Democratic moderates. In the confirmation vote, every Democrat opposed Mrs. DeVos, including Joe Manchin of West Virginia and Heidi Heitkamp of North Dakota.

The issue presumably at the center of this nomination fight is the future of the education of black children who live in urban neighborhoods.

During a strike in the 1930s, a miner’s wife wrote a song that became a Democratic anthem, “Which Side Are You On?” The question remains: Which side are you on?

A standard answer is that the interests of the Democrats and the teachers unions are conjoined. Still, many of us have wondered at the party’s massive resistance to public-school alternatives and most reforms.

Beneath that resistance sits a grim reality: Many urban school systems are slowly dying. As with the decline of the industrial unions, the Democrats’ urban base of teachers is disappearing by attrition. The party is desperate to hold on to what’s left, and increasingly that includes its bedrock —black parents.

Enrollment in many urban schools has been declining for years. It’s down significantly in Los Angeles, Philadelphia, Chicago, Detroit, Kansas City and elsewhere. Falling alongside have been membership rolls in urban teachers unions, notably in Michigan and Wisconsin, two Trump pickups this election.

Families who could afford it have moved away. Many adult blacks stayed behind and, inexorably, the education of their children fell behind, a fact documented annually year after year. By the way, good public teachers got trapped, too. Some of the best lost heart and left, replaced by less able teachers, some grossly so.

For parents of children in the nation’s suburban public schools, none of this mattered much, so sustained political support for reform of city schools was never very deep. But in the cities, dissent rose.

The charter-school movement emerged first in Minnesota in 1991. Wisconsin passed the first school-choice legislation in 1989, authored by a Democratic black activist named Polly Williams. Some of us thought then that Polly Williams was the start of a new, bipartisan civil-rights movement. How naive we were.


The movement persisted. According to a 2016 study by the National Alliance for Public Charter Schools, using state databases, these are the percentages of students now enrolled in public charters only:

In now-famous Flint, Mich.: 53%. Kansas City: 40%; Philadelphia: 32%; the District of Columbia: 45%; Detroit: 53%.

In Louisiana, which essentially abandoned its failed central-administration model after Hurricane Katrina, New Orleans charters are at 92%.

The steady migration of poor families to these alternatives is a historic saga of social transformation. It happened for two reasons: to escape public-school disorder and to give their kids a shot at learning.

This is one of greatest civil-rights stories since the mid-1960s. And the Democratic Party’s role in it? About zero. Other than, as in the past two weeks, resistance.

In 2002, the Supreme Court, with Justice Sandra Day O’Connor’s deciding vote, ruled that Cleveland’s (still successful) school voucher program was constitutional.

In 2013, the Obama Justice Department sought an injunction against Louisiana’s voucher system, arguing the alternative schools were . . . too black. By this logic, children are wards of the state first and the free sons and daughters of their parents second.

Let’s be clear. We are talking about the professional Democratic Party and their full-time adjuncts. Many Democrats, some as “wealthy” as Betsy DeVos, abandoned the party’s hard-line resistance and supported charters and choice.

America’s inner cities are the foundation of the Democratic Party. Now, its urban political arm, the teachers unions, is shrinking. And its moral foundation of black parents is drifting away. Hillary Clinton explicitly promised more of the status quo. They didn’t turn out for her.

This relentless erosion of an unreformable party explains the rage over one woman, Betsy DeVos.

Some of the least attractive elements of this opposition reemerged, notably anti-Catholicism and anti-Christian bigotry. Stories cited as reason for opposition to Mrs. DeVos her support for “Christian schools.” It’s true. Those Christian and Catholic schools, supported by vouchers, have sent thousands of black and Hispanic kids on to college, the first in their families to make it that far.

Frederick Douglass, speaking in 1894 in Manassas, Va., said, “To deny education to any people is one of the greatest crimes against human nature.” That in 2016 this reality should be redefined in our politics as it was so clearly by the fight against Betsy DeVos is one for the history books.
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By Ramyrez 2017-02-10 14:17:49
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Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
That's how science works. Conclusions are made on the best data at the time and when new data is presented or corrections made then new conclusions may be made. It's like saying that science once believed the sun circled the earth but now they think the reverse. So which is it?!

Neither! We twirl around like a bolo orbiting an even bigger thing!
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2017-02-10 14:19:22
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Garuda.Chanti said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Research requires money and staff. You should take these revelations straight to the Daily Mail.
Right, and in order to keep the free money train rolling, you must show that a problem exists....
No, beople get grants for basic blue sky research. Example.
And did they get their grants based on political ploys?

Garuda.Chanti said: »
Quote:
But hey, keep defending a bunch of unethical, moneygrubbing "scientists" who have to lie in order to get paid. Makes you look good, right?
You mean the ones working for the energy companies, right?
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Ramyrez said: »
Except your counterpoint doesn't work, because the "profit" for most people is having an environment that isn't ***. Not a Scrooge McDuck-like vault of dolla-dolla-bills, y'all.
So, are you saying that these scientists who study global warming is doing it for free, on their free time, using their own money to produce such research?

Also that those same scientists don't have influence over government policies or even global policies? That they are doing this all without any hint of the power that comes from making policy decisions?

Protip: Stop taking those meds, they are warping your perception of reality.
So does this apply only to climate scientists or anyone that does anything for money?
Everyone.

But you know what the main difference between businesses and scientists are? Regulations & Laws. Regulations & Laws keep businesses straight, scientists aren't set to the same ethical standards as everyone else, which lets them be able to produce nothing and get millions/billions for it.
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 Lakshmi.Zerowone
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2017-02-10 14:27:42
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
The fact remains that to accept this new finding is to assume that everything about the pause was wrong

Quote:
For many years, climate scientists were puzzled by an apparent plateau in global temperature rise from 1998 to 2012 as ocean temperatures stayed consistent. The 2015 research paper addressed the issue when it found there was no pause because the method to collect ocean temperatures was flawed.

Well what was flawed?

Quote:
That study replicated NOAA's findings by accounting for different methods of temperature collection over time. For instance, data collected in the engine rooms of ships show slightly elevated levels of warming compared with those collected by buoys. When researchers accounted for that discrepancy, the so-called global warming pause disappears, researchers found.

Quote:
A study earlier this year using data from buoys, satellites and Argo floats backs up a challenge of the so-called global warming pause by NOAA

Oh so we saw a consistency because data was being collected from an engine room in the environment and not from the actual environment itself. When we collect data from the environment we see that pause is a attributed to a flawed methodology.

So now it's a matter of acknowledging whether there was a flaw in the data collection or not.

But back to bias:
Quote:
Yesterday, Bates said he was contacted by the Science Committee for the first time only after the story broke. He said he has not communicated with anyone there before and was not a whistleblower for the committee previously but that he expected to be invited to Washington to testify at a future hearing.

He said he would accept such an invitation, but cautioned scientists against advocating policy.

"You really have to provide the most objective view and let the policymakers decide from their role," Bates said. "I'm getting much more wary of scientists growing into too much advocacy. I think there is certainly a role there, and yet people have to really examine themselves for their own bias and be careful about that."

It's actually a good article about how a flaw in data collection can affect perceptions and policies.
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2017-02-10 14:43:45
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Lakshmi.Zerowone said: »
Oh so we saw a consistency because data was being collected from an engine room in the environment and not from the actual environment itself.

If I remember correctly, we were talking about that very problem in here a while back (or, at the very least, I found it in my own research), because I recall that the issue was already disregarded because of other methods of collecting data. I'm actually really concerned if they didn't think of dealing with that issue much, much sooner, because if the pause was based on that alone then they really suck at recognizing obvious confounding variables and accounting for their effects.

Lakshmi.Zerowone said: »
It's actually a good article about how a flaw in data collection can affect perceptions and policies.

I deal with flaws of that nature on a regular basis. I'll have to check out the article, though.
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 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2017-02-10 14:46:19
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Meanwhile at the zombie apocalypse...



Quote:
(CNN)It's not like marauding hordes of zombies are roaming the streets of Illinois, but state lawmakers think that's no reason not to be prepared.
The legislature has declared October "Zombie Preparedness Month."
Why? Because, as House ResoIution 0030 says, "If the citizens of Illinois are prepared for zombies, than [sic] they are prepared for any natural disaster."
The resolution was approved Thursday and yes, at the heart of it, it speaks to a bigger point: Americans, for the most part, aren't equipped with dealing with natural disasters. Very few have an emergency plan prepared or even supplies of food, water or medicine.

Still, the debate on the House floor as lawmakers considered the measure, made for some interesting moments.
"Rep. Steven Andersson, R-Geneva, questioned which type of zombie should be used as a model for natural disaster preparedness," the Chicago Tribune reported.
He noted "that the undead featured on the show "Z Nation" are quick and smart. Those portrayed on "The Walking Dead," though, are slow but come in droves."
Full text in .pdf in the link.
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2017-02-10 14:48:31
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Garuda.Chanti said: »
Full text in .pdf in the link.
Chanti, are you a politician?

I mean, you make promises but never fulfill them!
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 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2017-02-10 14:50:30
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At the bottom of the articke. Scroll down....

/rolleyes
 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2017-02-10 14:51:21
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Ooooops...

Being prepared for zombies is now a real thing in Illinois
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By fonewear 2017-02-10 14:51:58
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Zombies are so 2003 !
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2017-02-10 14:52:46
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Garuda.Chanti said: »
At the bottom of the articke. Scroll down....

/rolleyes
/slap

There!

/slap again for good measure.

/slap with a tuna just because.
 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2017-02-10 14:55:05
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fonewear said: »
Zombies are so 2003 !

I'm still stuck in 2003. I haven't changed my clothing or hair styles since then.

On a similar note, The Walking Dead returns Sunday. Woot woot.
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2017-02-10 14:55:57
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
On a similar note, The Walking Dead returns Sunday. Woot woot.
The state of Illinois is prepared for it. Are you?
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By Ramyrez 2017-02-10 14:59:22
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
On a similar note, The Walking Dead returns Sunday. Woot woot.
The state of Illinois is prepared for it. Are you?

So is the DOD. Sort of. Theoretically.
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 Lakshmi.Zerowone
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2017-02-10 15:04:14
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I believe the CDC has a document on it as well.
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 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2017-02-10 15:07:44
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A zombie apocalypse would be rough. How can you tell the difference between a legitimate zombie and a teenager on their phone?
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