Omen Findings
Omen Findings
Wow that was fast, figured the merc services wouldn't start for a month or two.
Omen simply doesn't lend itself well to mercing, so I'm confused as to how one would do that. You can only choose the final boss, and there's no certainty of a drop, and you can't spam it...
Same way people used to sell dynamis drops
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
Same way people used to sell dynamis drops
There was still a looooooooooooooooot better chance at getting what you wanted in Dynamis (if you were in a good group doing full/near full clears) than Omen, unless the item you want is a standard drop from the boss of your choosing. Any sub boss item or body is a silly thing to attempt to sell.
RNG just means you can charge more for it (:
I would like to propose a hypothesis about how the omens work in Omen based on my experiences soloing, but this will of course need more testing.
Yesterday, I entered Omen on DNC/WAR with 5 trusts. The first floor was a "eliminate a specific mob" floor, which I luckily cleared in the first 5 minutes, so I was granted 15 minutes for floor 2. Note that the final Omen count for the first floor was some random number (not 0 or 666)
I entered floor 2 and the objective was "eliminate the transcended mobs", which again was lucky for me. I pulled them (and only them) and unlocked the next floor. Note that the Omen count at this point was nonzero.
I knew that I wasn't gonna beat the midboss, so I decided to keep killing mobs for CP just for fun. I cleared the entire floor with a few minutes to spare. The final Omen count for the floor was 0 omens.
This leads me to believe that instead of monster kills ADDING Omens, they actually SUBTRACT omens from a larger, fixed quantity. Of course, this intuitively doesn't make sense right off the bat, since the stated omen value is between 0-1000 and fluctuates chaotically between kills. This seemingly chaotic nature, coupled with the final count for the floor being 0, leads me to believe that the count we are given is not the full count, but instead the total omen count mod 1000 (i.e. the remainder of the value when divided by 1000).
Of course, all of this rests on the fact that clearing the entire floor of mobs results in having 0 omens left. I seem to remember this being the case in prior runs, but if somebody can disprove this one point, the theory falls apart.
To make this brief, I think the following:
1) Each floor has a set amount of omens. Omens do not carry over from previous floors.
2) The omen count we see is actually only the least three significant figures of the true count.
3) Each mob holds a certain number of omens. When killed, this value is subtracted from the running total of omens. (When all mobs are killed, the final value of omens is 0.) Strictly mathematically speaking, addition and subtraction are isomorphic in this context, since adding X omens is the same as subtracting 1000 - X omens (mod 1000), but subtraction makes more intuitive sense (at least for me).
The rest is untested and is pure speculation:
1) The fact that we are incentivized to hit "666" omens leads me to think that you can actually math out the mobs you're supposed to kill. Specifically, you should be able to kill one of each class of mob and see how many omens you lose, and then use math to "land" on 666 omens.
I'm gonna give it a shot today and see if I can get more evidence, or counter-evidence
Yesterday, I entered Omen on DNC/WAR with 5 trusts. The first floor was a "eliminate a specific mob" floor, which I luckily cleared in the first 5 minutes, so I was granted 15 minutes for floor 2. Note that the final Omen count for the first floor was some random number (not 0 or 666)
I entered floor 2 and the objective was "eliminate the transcended mobs", which again was lucky for me. I pulled them (and only them) and unlocked the next floor. Note that the Omen count at this point was nonzero.
I knew that I wasn't gonna beat the midboss, so I decided to keep killing mobs for CP just for fun. I cleared the entire floor with a few minutes to spare. The final Omen count for the floor was 0 omens.
This leads me to believe that instead of monster kills ADDING Omens, they actually SUBTRACT omens from a larger, fixed quantity. Of course, this intuitively doesn't make sense right off the bat, since the stated omen value is between 0-1000 and fluctuates chaotically between kills. This seemingly chaotic nature, coupled with the final count for the floor being 0, leads me to believe that the count we are given is not the full count, but instead the total omen count mod 1000 (i.e. the remainder of the value when divided by 1000).
Of course, all of this rests on the fact that clearing the entire floor of mobs results in having 0 omens left. I seem to remember this being the case in prior runs, but if somebody can disprove this one point, the theory falls apart.
To make this brief, I think the following:
1) Each floor has a set amount of omens. Omens do not carry over from previous floors.
2) The omen count we see is actually only the least three significant figures of the true count.
3) Each mob holds a certain number of omens. When killed, this value is subtracted from the running total of omens. (When all mobs are killed, the final value of omens is 0.) Strictly mathematically speaking, addition and subtraction are isomorphic in this context, since adding X omens is the same as subtracting 1000 - X omens (mod 1000), but subtraction makes more intuitive sense (at least for me).
The rest is untested and is pure speculation:
1) The fact that we are incentivized to hit "666" omens leads me to think that you can actually math out the mobs you're supposed to kill. Specifically, you should be able to kill one of each class of mob and see how many omens you lose, and then use math to "land" on 666 omens.
I'm gonna give it a shot today and see if I can get more evidence, or counter-evidence
666 Omens is definitely not required for a chest floor according to my logs. Was curious to see if triple digits did anything and that doesn't seem to be the answer either:
- 2 chest floors without triples occuring; once after Gin, once after Fu
- 2 chest floors, one with 555 and one with 999; both after Craver
- 2 runs without chest floors but with triples; 111 on 2nd floor, 888 on Gin 4th floor
- 1 run without chest floors and four different sets of triples; 222 and 777 on 1st floor, 444 on 2nd floor, 999 on Kin 4th floor
edit:
The last enemy we kill on any given floor always gives us another random *** number. Also never seen 0 Omens ever, and even on chest runs we always get a single Omen message upon each enemy's death on 1st/2nd/4th floors.
- 2 chest floors without triples occuring; once after Gin, once after Fu
- 2 chest floors, one with 555 and one with 999; both after Craver
- 2 runs without chest floors but with triples; 111 on 2nd floor, 888 on Gin 4th floor
- 1 run without chest floors and four different sets of triples; 222 and 777 on 1st floor, 444 on 2nd floor, 999 on Kin 4th floor
edit:
Phoenix.Dabackpack said: »
Of course, all of this rests on the fact that clearing the entire floor of mobs results in having 0 omens left. I seem to remember this being the case in prior runs, but if somebody can disprove this one point, the theory falls apart.
The last enemy we kill on any given floor always gives us another random *** number. Also never seen 0 Omens ever, and even on chest runs we always get a single Omen message upon each enemy's death on 1st/2nd/4th floors.
Sylph.Braden said: »
666 Omens is definitely not required for a chest floor according to my logs. Was curious to see if triple digits did anything and that doesn't seem to be the answer either:
- 2 chest floors without triples occuring; once after Gin, once after Fu
- 2 chest floors, one with 555 and one with 999; both after Craver
- 2 runs without chest floors but with triples; 111 on 2nd floor, 888 on Gin 4th floor
- 1 run without chest floors and four different sets of triples; 222 and 777 on 1st floor, 444 on 2nd floor, 999 on Kin 4th floor
- 2 chest floors without triples occuring; once after Gin, once after Fu
- 2 chest floors, one with 555 and one with 999; both after Craver
- 2 runs without chest floors but with triples; 111 on 2nd floor, 888 on Gin 4th floor
- 1 run without chest floors and four different sets of triples; 222 and 777 on 1st floor, 444 on 2nd floor, 999 on Kin 4th floor
According to previous posts, 666 is sufficient but not necessary.
Fenrir.Tarowyn said: »
Lakshmi.Byrth said: »
I think we might be getting chest floors when we run ahead of schedule. Something like floor(expected time remaining/10) chests.
We got 3 chests post-Gin last night and had more than 30 minutes on the clock. We've gotten 1 chest post-Glassy, which makes sense because your max time to that point is 30 minutes.
idk, it's probably wrong but there's an idea.
We got 3 chests post-Gin last night and had more than 30 minutes on the clock. We've gotten 1 chest post-Glassy, which makes sense because your max time to that point is 30 minutes.
idk, it's probably wrong but there's an idea.
Apparently at least one trigger is getting 666 Omens when you kill a mob. I dunno if that's the only thing, but it's something to keep an eye out for.
Bahamut.Tychefm said: »
Got red chests after midboss and *drummroll* gil !
Looking through my logs I noticed we got 666 Omens on floor 1 and continued to get omens for the rest of the floor. Floor 2 we didn't get any omens. Floor 3 was boss and after Floor 3 we got a chest floor. After chest floor we got got omens again.
I figured it was interesting enough to note.
I figured it was interesting enough to note.
Sylph.Braden said: »
edit:
Phoenix.Dabackpack said: »
Of course, all of this rests on the fact that clearing the entire floor of mobs results in having 0 omens left. I seem to remember this being the case in prior runs, but if somebody can disprove this one point, the theory falls apart.
The last enemy we kill on any given floor always gives us another random *** number. Also never seen 0 Omens ever, and even on chest runs we always get a single Omen message upon each enemy's death on 1st/2nd/4th floors.
Do you clear entire floors by killing all monsters, or stop when you unlock the portal? I've landed on 0 omens after all monsters are dead in two separate runs, one solo and one in a party
we've always fully cleared all floors
Sylph.Braden said: »
we've always fully cleared all floors
I guess it really is random then
but yeah you can get 0 omens
It's worth mentioning that a good PUP using a full Valoredge Automaton takes very little damage from Pain Sync due to the insane amount of DT-%. I only had my Automaton 1-shotted once but that was following a double Volt Strike as the attack was readying, I was never going to survive that.
Most will only bring x1 PUP and make it tank but honestly, x2 PUP might be extremely OP for Omen during pet setups. A PUP not having to be anywhere near it's Automaton to issue it commands really shines against the Glassy NM's in particular. Whereas a SMN or BST have to endanger themselves by moving in to use BP's or Ready a PUP can stand at 30+ yalms and watch the fight unfold.
Glassy Thinker has a hard time killing Automatons as described above.
Glassy Gorger cannot copy anything from Automatons as they have nothing to copy.
Glassy Craver cannot draw in the PUP itself as it is far out of range. It will also never wander to the back line as if it uses hate reset on x1 Automaton it will just turn to the other.
Most will only bring x1 PUP and make it tank but honestly, x2 PUP might be extremely OP for Omen during pet setups. A PUP not having to be anywhere near it's Automaton to issue it commands really shines against the Glassy NM's in particular. Whereas a SMN or BST have to endanger themselves by moving in to use BP's or Ready a PUP can stand at 30+ yalms and watch the fight unfold.
Glassy Thinker has a hard time killing Automatons as described above.
Glassy Gorger cannot copy anything from Automatons as they have nothing to copy.
Glassy Craver cannot draw in the PUP itself as it is far out of range. It will also never wander to the back line as if it uses hate reset on x1 Automaton it will just turn to the other.
[+]
Ranger Trueflight Mage setup works great on Kei:
We did Alexcennah:RUN Ayasha:SCH Corian:BLM Ristrocat:GEO Valienta:COR Verda:RNG. This was one left in my log, the biggest I did was after the RUN did gambit/rayke, was 97k + 99k. Some of the fire bursts also hit for about 60k.
We lost about 5% to regen sometimes but we'd take like 20% so it didn't matter as much. The biggest problem was pulling hate on RNG. But Alex our RUN got it back pretty quick. I did end up dying to fullers once though and a 2nd time to draw in and then an aoe move while weak. It had 3% left and sch and blm finished it off while I was double weak.
Edit: Also Alex said you can range Dancing Fullers, he even did it 2x while gravity'd and it only has a range of about 6 or 7 yalms.
GEO was malaise and focus and COR was SAM + Wizards. Was a very fun enjoyable run, would recommend anyone with good a TF setup to use it. We kept the strats up for the SCH with RD, then TR, then WC then RD (though don't think we ever used the last RD).
We did Alexcennah:RUN Ayasha:SCH Corian:BLM Ristrocat:GEO Valienta:COR Verda:RNG. This was one left in my log, the biggest I did was after the RUN did gambit/rayke, was 97k + 99k. Some of the fire bursts also hit for about 60k.
We lost about 5% to regen sometimes but we'd take like 20% so it didn't matter as much. The biggest problem was pulling hate on RNG. But Alex our RUN got it back pretty quick. I did end up dying to fullers once though and a 2nd time to draw in and then an aoe move while weak. It had 3% left and sch and blm finished it off while I was double weak.
Edit: Also Alex said you can range Dancing Fullers, he even did it 2x while gravity'd and it only has a range of about 6 or 7 yalms.
GEO was malaise and focus and COR was SAM + Wizards. Was a very fun enjoyable run, would recommend anyone with good a TF setup to use it. We kept the strats up for the SCH with RD, then TR, then WC then RD (though don't think we ever used the last RD).
[+]
Verda said: »
Ranger Trueflight Mage setup works great on Kei:
We did Alexcennah:RUN Ayasha:SCH Corian:BLM Ristrocat:GEO Valienta:COR Verda:RNG. This was one left in my log, the biggest I did was after the RUN did gambit/rayke, was 97k + 99k. Some of the fire bursts also hit for about 60k.
We lost about 5% to regen sometimes but we'd take like 20% so it didn't matter as much. The biggest problem was pulling hate on RNG. But Alex our RUN got it back pretty quick. I did end up dying to fullers once though and a 2nd time to draw in and then an aoe move while weak. It had 3% left and sch and blm finished it off while I was double weak.
GEO was malaise and focus and COR was SAM + Wizards. Was a very fun enjoyable run, would recommend anyone with good a TF setup to use it. We kept the strats up for the SCH with RD, then TR, then WC then RD (though don't think we ever used the last RD).
We did Alexcennah:RUN Ayasha:SCH Corian:BLM Ristrocat:GEO Valienta:COR Verda:RNG. This was one left in my log, the biggest I did was after the RUN did gambit/rayke, was 97k + 99k. Some of the fire bursts also hit for about 60k.
We lost about 5% to regen sometimes but we'd take like 20% so it didn't matter as much. The biggest problem was pulling hate on RNG. But Alex our RUN got it back pretty quick. I did end up dying to fullers once though and a 2nd time to draw in and then an aoe move while weak. It had 3% left and sch and blm finished it off while I was double weak.
GEO was malaise and focus and COR was SAM + Wizards. Was a very fun enjoyable run, would recommend anyone with good a TF setup to use it. We kept the strats up for the SCH with RD, then TR, then WC then RD (though don't think we ever used the last RD).
We're going to try SCH Distortion to COR Leaden Salute when we get to Kei. If he is not resistant to Darkness damage it could work extremely well. We're thinking of this setup for Kei.
RUN/SCH/GEO/COR/RDM/BLM
Alternatively there is a good Trueflight RNG in the static who I'm sure would be thrilled to give it a shot.
[+]
Ruaumoko said: »
Very interesting. Thanks for sharing.
We're going to try SCH Distortion to COR Leaden Salute when we get to Kei. If he is not resistant to Darkness damage it could work extremely well. We're thinking of this setup for Kei.
RUN/SCH/GEO/COR/RDM/BLM
Alternatively there is a good Trueflight RNG in the static who I'm sure would be thrilled to give it a shot.
We're going to try SCH Distortion to COR Leaden Salute when we get to Kei. If he is not resistant to Darkness damage it could work extremely well. We're thinking of this setup for Kei.
RUN/SCH/GEO/COR/RDM/BLM
Alternatively there is a good Trueflight RNG in the static who I'm sure would be thrilled to give it a shot.
You're welcome and thanks :D I hope that works for you, someone said they think Caturae resist darkness to me, but if they don't a COR Leaden burst strat to death could be very promising.
Verda said: »
Ruaumoko said: »
Very interesting. Thanks for sharing.
We're going to try SCH Distortion to COR Leaden Salute when we get to Kei. If he is not resistant to Darkness damage it could work extremely well. We're thinking of this setup for Kei.
RUN/SCH/GEO/COR/RDM/BLM
Alternatively there is a good Trueflight RNG in the static who I'm sure would be thrilled to give it a shot.
We're going to try SCH Distortion to COR Leaden Salute when we get to Kei. If he is not resistant to Darkness damage it could work extremely well. We're thinking of this setup for Kei.
RUN/SCH/GEO/COR/RDM/BLM
Alternatively there is a good Trueflight RNG in the static who I'm sure would be thrilled to give it a shot.
You're welcome and thanks :D I hope that works for you, someone said they think Caturae resist darkness to me, but if they don't a COR Leaden burst strat to death could be very promising.
Oh well, we'll do some testing on Sunday and get back to everyone.
[+]
Noticed something on the Craver tonight. I tried facing away from View Sync and let it hit me to see if it still connected, and it did. However, when I was facing away and running away it would no longer draw me in (still binds though). I was able to replicate this multiple times so I don't think it was lag.
[+]
Phoenix.Brixy said: »
Noticed something on the Craver tonight. I tried facing away from View Sync and let it hit me to see if it still connected, and it did. However, when I was facing away and running away it would no longer draw me in (still binds though). I was able to replicate this multiple times so I don't think it was lag.
So basically it's like an AoE gaze attack? Turn away and you won't get drawn in. That would make sense because I would often face away while doing Craver out of habit and not get drawn in.
Asura.Inuyushi said: »
Phoenix.Brixy said: »
Noticed something on the Craver tonight. I tried facing away from View Sync and let it hit me to see if it still connected, and it did. However, when I was facing away and running away it would no longer draw me in (still binds though). I was able to replicate this multiple times so I don't think it was lag.
So basically it's like an AoE gaze attack? Turn away and you won't get drawn in. That would make sense because I would often face away while doing Craver out of habit and not get drawn in.
i don't believe this is in any way true. i've been caught by it, numerous times, as i ran away.
[+]
I'm now wondering if a Nirvana SMN could be an excellent DD on Kei, provided the SCH opens Fragmentation for them. Flaming Crush could do some pretty spectacular numbers.
I don't know might be onto something think of the names the moves are given.
View sync-something to do with sight?
Pain sync-copies damage (pain)
Blessings sync-copies buffs (blessings)
View sync-something to do with sight?
Pain sync-copies damage (pain)
Blessings sync-copies buffs (blessings)
Could see if couple blues/Nins/rdms could kill it back tanking spamming spells for damage?
Or manawell blms?
Or manawell blms?
Asura.Frod said: »
Asura.Inuyushi said: »
Phoenix.Brixy said: »
Noticed something on the Craver tonight. I tried facing away from View Sync and let it hit me to see if it still connected, and it did. However, when I was facing away and running away it would no longer draw me in (still binds though). I was able to replicate this multiple times so I don't think it was lag.
So basically it's like an AoE gaze attack? Turn away and you won't get drawn in. That would make sense because I would often face away while doing Craver out of habit and not get drawn in.
i don't believe this is in any way true. i've been caught by it, numerous times, as i ran away.
I would keep my back turned and make SC on sch. I would have to time it network draw ins.
Think someone already tried this, but what does blinding it do prior to/on tp-attack? Think someone tried it already though
Ruaumoko said: »
I'm now wondering if a Nirvana SMN could be an excellent DD on Kei, provided the SCH opens Fragmentation for them. Flaming Crush could do some pretty spectacular numbers.
Ruaumoko said: »
I'm now wondering if a Nirvana SMN could be an excellent DD on Kei, provided the SCH opens Fragmentation for them. Flaming Crush could do some pretty spectacular numbers.
We've done Kei a couple of times with a setup of PUP x2, COR x2, SMN and GEO.
One COR uses Drachen Roll and Puppet Roll, the other COR uses Companion's Roll only so that the Automatons have regain. The GEO lays down a Geo-Malaise bubble. One PUP uses the PLD Auto to tank, the other uses a RNG and he holds his puppet on standby.
The PUP whose auto is tanking has to keep at least one Light Maneuver up in order to proc Bone Crusher. The other PUP with RNG Automaton equipped with the Inhibitor attachment uses deploy to force Armor Shatterer which results in a Light SC. The SMN using Ramuh then bursts with Thunderstorm. The SMN can burst twice with Thunderstorm via Apogee JA.
Rinse/Repeat until Kei dies. The fight, assuming no mistakes, will last ~12-15 minutes which includes Benediction. A good SMN will burst for anywhere in the range of 35k to 50k depending on resist..
Shiva.Siviard said: »
Ruaumoko said: »
I'm now wondering if a Nirvana SMN could be an excellent DD on Kei, provided the SCH opens Fragmentation for them. Flaming Crush could do some pretty spectacular numbers.
We've done Kei a couple of times with a setup of PUP x2, COR x2, SMN and GEO.
One COR uses Drachen Roll and Puppet Roll, the other COR uses Companion's Roll only so that the Automatons have regain. The GEO lays down a Geo-Malaise bubble. One PUP uses the PLD Auto to tank, the other uses a RNG and he holds his puppet on standby.
The PUP whose auto is tanking has to keep at least one Light Maneuver up in order to proc Bone Crusher. The other PUP with RNG Automaton equipped with the Inhibitor attachment uses deploy to force Armor Shatterer which results in a Light SC. The SMN using Ramuh then bursts with Thunderstorm. The SMN can burst twice with Thunderstorm via Apogee JA.
Rinse/Repeat until Kei dies. The fight, assuming no mistakes, will last ~12-15 minutes which includes Benediction. A good SMN will burst for anywhere in the range of 35k to 50k depending on resist..
We have been going Run Whm Sch Cor Geo Smn. Same principle as above, but frag sc > mb Thunderstorm. However, I will say that on a normal geo malaise+lang (no BOG or Bolster) I get closer to 70-75k mb on smn. BOG or Bolster both means 99k for me.
Asura.Frod said: »
Ruaumoko said: »
I'm now wondering if a Nirvana SMN could be an excellent DD on Kei, provided the SCH opens Fragmentation for them. Flaming Crush could do some pretty spectacular numbers.
7-man party?
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