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Random Politics & Religion #14
By eliroo 2016-11-22 10:16:12
but there is nothing to keep the Electoral College membership from turning faithless aside from monetary fines in a handful of states. Except party loyalty and also the entire democratic system of voting.
If the election results were turned over based by what a few cities decided because of feels, just imagine the outrage by the rest of the nation, including in those very cities. It would completely undermine all future presidential elections going forth.
Also the fact that Clinton formally conceded makes 37 faithless electors seem even more impossible.
 Lakshmi.Zerowone
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2016-11-22 10:17:28
Something something some people here should brush up on their understanding of the intended function of the electoral college per Federalist No. 68 and the counter argument in Anti Federalist No. 72
 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2016-11-22 10:21:49
but there is nothing to keep the Electoral College membership from turning faithless aside from monetary fines in a handful of states. Except party loyalty and also the entire democratic system of voting.
If the election results were turned over based by what a few cities decided because of feels, just imagine the outrage by the rest of the nation, including in those very cities. It would completely undermine all future presidential elections going forth.
I don't know about you, but I'm totally willing to take public shaming, hefty fines, forced resignation, and/or criminal charges (depending on state) to change my electoral vote, all in the hopes that 37 other people in red states happen to care as little about the integrity of the political process as I do. After all, I'm delusional enough to lose an election and still think that everyone sees things the same way that I see them.
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Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2016-11-22 10:23:52
How do you rationalize hat the alt right is full of white supremacists yet is supposedly lead by someone lile milo a Jewish gay male who loves BBC?
Did...did...
Did you read what I wrote or just see that I typed "alt-right manosphere" and assume I went " RACIST NAZI RACIST NAZI RACIST NAZI COCKOCKRACY!? Ok settle down. I'm really trying to have a discussion here.
So am I, which is why I asked.
I'm not addressing that issue at all.
I'm saying that in doing some reading -- including some ill-advised, but nevertheless enlightening time spent on both Tumblr and The Red Pill on Reddit -- there is a lot of crossover in the entitlement issues and way that both extremes present their arguments and the way they generally behave.
I mean, I really despise generalizing people by generation, but TL;DR: millenials have some really, really serious problems and older people are criticizing them for entirely the wrong reasons.
You don't have to tell me that the world is not the same for millennial as it was for the baby boomers. But anyway you cut it crying victim is the least helpful thing they can do.
The second least helpful thing you can do is elect liberals to fix it.
Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2016-11-22 10:27:32
If the college handed her the election we would probably have a revolt and a civil war.
By Ramyrez 2016-11-22 10:27:46
You don't have to tell me that the world is not the same for millennial as it was for the baby boomers. But anyway you cut it crying victim is the least helpful thing they can do.
...I agree with this part at least but...again.
Am I having a stroke? Where did I suggest otherwise?
I'm saying both the Alt Right movement (from the millennial view at least) and the radical peace-love-safe spaces people are very, very similar.
By Ramyrez 2016-11-22 10:29:48
If the college handed her the election we would probably have a revolt and a civil war.
This.
It is among the worst possible outcomes of this right now. You can argue all you want about the popular vote and it theoretically has merit, but that's not -- and never has been -- the way or system works.
Maybe if people tried to give a *** any time other than when they just lost we'd get some change, but as it stands, the results are going to stand. They have to or you're invalidating the entire system.
 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2016-11-22 10:30:23
but there is nothing to keep the Electoral College membership from turning faithless aside from monetary fines in a handful of states. Except party loyalty and also the entire democratic system of voting.
If the election results were turned over based by what a few cities decided because of feels, just imagine the outrage by the rest of the nation, including in those very cities. It would completely undermine all future presidential elections going forth. 1, The electoral college is specifically anti-democratic and was designed to be. It has become slightly more democratic since its origin, but only slightly.
2, The feels.... Mostly the last few decades the Dems have run on feels and the GoP on who's turn it is. This year the GoP ran on feels and the Dems ran Hillary because it was her turn. I would remind you all that Reagan ran on feels too.
HINT: for both parties, don't run the person who's turn it is.
Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2016-11-22 10:30:36
If the college handed her the election we would probably have a revolt and a civil war.
Pretty much. But I suppose this is worth pointing out too:
Quote: It is not common for an elector to vote for the other party's candidate, however: remember that most electors are selected by the political party for their party loyalty, and many are party leaders. The last time an elector crossed party lines was in 1972, when an elector nominated by the Republican Party cast his ballot for the Libertarian ticket.
Lakshmi.Zerowone
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2016-11-22 10:30:45
Millennials are inheriting problems created by older generations. Who figured they would figure out a resolution, thusly kicked the can on down. Millennials also have a problem of not voting but voicing their opinion about politic processes and results.
The older generation took a gamble but didn't foresee how much of a variable technology would play in creating a lazy and coddled generation.
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By eliroo 2016-11-22 10:33:03
The older generation took a gamble but didn't foresee how much of a variable technology would play in creating a lazy and coddled generation.
Are we discussing Generation X or the Millennials in this statement? Don't millennials work far more and far harder than the generation before them?
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-11-22 10:33:09
And because there is that fear in a good-sized portion of the U.S populace* You forgot the *:
*: In major cities across the country.
But here's the thing.
You can't say that the fears of rural folk are more valid than those of people in the cities either. Which is sort of what we're seeing. Which is what we always unfortunately see in these situations.
The people crying that they weren't getting equal representation get power and they don't give equal representation either, they just give favored representation to someone else. Not saying that, but if we are going to demand a reversal of election results every time our™ candidate didn't win, then why have an election in the first place?
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By Ramyrez 2016-11-22 10:33:33
The older generation took a gamble but didn't foresee how much of a variable technology would play in creating a lazy and coddled generation.
And fate, it seems, is not without a sense of humor.
As there is no way in hell the Donald gets elected without social media and the internet in general.
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By Ramyrez 2016-11-22 10:34:27
Not saying that, but if we are going to demand a reversal of election results every time our™ candidate didn't win, then why have an election in the first place?
Fair enough. Sorry, I think I took something out of context there again, possibly because I try not to read CJ's posts because I'm not sure what reality he lives in...but I'm pretty sure I don't own property there.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-11-22 10:36:59
1, The electoral college is specifically anti-democratic and was designed to be. It has become slightly more democratic since its origin, but only slightly. Democratic system as in voting in the electors. I mean, if I voted in an elector to vote for Trump, and he turned around and voted for Clinton, that pretty much undermined the whole purpose of voting the elector into that position, don't you think?
Lakshmi.Zerowone
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2016-11-22 10:38:08
but there is nothing to keep the Electoral College membership from turning faithless aside from monetary fines in a handful of states. Except party loyalty and also the entire democratic system of voting.
If the election results were turned over based by what a few cities decided because of feels, just imagine the outrage by the rest of the nation, including in those very cities. It would completely undermine all future presidential elections going forth. 1, The electoral college is specifically anti-democratic and was designed to be. It has become slightly more democratic since its origin, but only slightly.
2, The feels.... Mostly the last few decades the Dems have run on feels and the GoP on who's turn it is. This year the GoP ran on feels and the Dems ran Hillary because it was her turn. I would remind you all that Reagan ran on feels too.
HINT: for both parties, don't run the person who's turn it is.
Exactly. The electoral college is an intended safeguard to check the popular vote. It was established as a group of learned and reasonable men (elites) who would not elect a person found unfit for office, though said candidate is popular with the public.
Like most things in this country today; it's nothing like what the Founding Fathers intended.
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Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2016-11-22 10:38:56
If the college handed her the election we would probably have a revolt and a civil war. But that's not the plan.
Currently a few Bernie favoring electors are looking for 37 GoP electors to turn faithless and throw the thing into the house. Which is still in the hands of the GoP. The idea being to have the house hand the election to Romney or Kasih.
But its a deeper plan than just that. Also doomed to failure.
Democratic presidential electors revolt against Trump
The Electoral College could see a historic number of 'faithless electors.'
Politico
A Group of Electors is Trying to Destroy the Electoral College
Slate
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By Ramyrez 2016-11-22 10:40:22
Are we discussing Generation X or the Millennials in this statement? Don't millennials work far more and far harder than the generation before them?
Both, kinda. More the latter than the former though. And...yes. But they work differently and all work is not created equally.
Now, that's not necessarily the millenials' fault, as when they're born and the technology/world around them is not of their design. They didn't orchestrate the outsourcing deportation without chance of reprieve of American manufacturing jobs their fathers and grandfathers held.
But they're dealing with it and they're a little coddled, so it's not going as well as it could.
Which, again, is at least as much their parents' fault as their own, but for people just workin' every day and trying to get by, we're still stuck in the middle.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-11-22 10:42:01
Sorry, but I don't think you should trust the same sources that kept piling on the "Clinton wins!" campaign they were pushing on us up until Election Day.
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By Zerowone 2016-11-22 10:42:42
Are we discussing Generation X or the Millennials in this statement? Don't millennials work far more and far harder than the generation before them?
Both, kinda. More the latter than the former though. And...yes. But they work differently and all work is not created equally.
Now, that's not necessarily the millenials' fault, as when they're born and the technology/world around them is not of their design. They didn't orchestrate the outsourcing deportation without chance of reprieve of American manufacturing jobs their fathers and grandfathers held.
But they're dealing with it and they're a little coddled, so it's not going as well as it could.
Which, again, is at least as much their parents' fault as their own, but for people just workin' every day and trying to get by, we're still stuck in the middle. YouTube Video Placeholder
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By eliroo 2016-11-22 10:43:07
but there is nothing to keep the Electoral College membership from turning faithless aside from monetary fines in a handful of states. Except party loyalty and also the entire democratic system of voting.
If the election results were turned over based by what a few cities decided because of feels, just imagine the outrage by the rest of the nation, including in those very cities. It would completely undermine all future presidential elections going forth. 1, The electoral college is specifically anti-democratic and was designed to be. It has become slightly more democratic since its origin, but only slightly.
2, The feels.... Mostly the last few decades the Dems have run on feels and the GoP on who's turn it is. This year the GoP ran on feels and the Dems ran Hillary because it was her turn. I would remind you all that Reagan ran on feels too.
HINT: for both parties, don't run the person who's turn it is.
Exactly. The electoral college is an intended safeguard to check the popular vote. It was established as a group of learned and reasonable men (elites) who would not elect a person found unfit for office, though said candidate is popular with the public.
Like most things in this country today; it's nothing like what the Founding Fathers intended.
In reality the Electoral college would be made to prevent someone like Trump from becoming president.
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By Ramyrez 2016-11-22 10:45:32
Yeah. I mean, take his ideology however you want but I'm really thinking the people who said he's literally not fit for office and has no idea what he's doing were very right.
But hey. If we survive him, maybe a good wakeup call.
The magnitude of that "if" to be determined at a later date.
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Lakshmi.Zerowone
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2016-11-22 10:46:44
but there is nothing to keep the Electoral College membership from turning faithless aside from monetary fines in a handful of states. Except party loyalty and also the entire democratic system of voting.
If the election results were turned over based by what a few cities decided because of feels, just imagine the outrage by the rest of the nation, including in those very cities. It would completely undermine all future presidential elections going forth. 1, The electoral college is specifically anti-democratic and was designed to be. It has become slightly more democratic since its origin, but only slightly.
2, The feels.... Mostly the last few decades the Dems have run on feels and the GoP on who's turn it is. This year the GoP ran on feels and the Dems ran Hillary because it was her turn. I would remind you all that Reagan ran on feels too.
HINT: for both parties, don't run the person who's turn it is.
Exactly. The electoral college is an intended safeguard to check the popular vote. It was established as a group of learned and reasonable men (elites) who would not elect a person found unfit for office, though said candidate is popular with the public.
Like most things in this country today; it's nothing like what the Founding Fathers intended.
In reality the Electoral college would be made to prevent someone like Trump from becoming president.
Would be intended. In reality men are easily persuaded, corrupted, and or bought.
By Ramyrez 2016-11-22 10:47:19
Are we discussing Generation X or the Millennials in this statement? Don't millennials work far more and far harder than the generation before them?
Both, kinda. More the latter than the former though. And...yes. But they work differently and all work is not created equally.
Now, that's not necessarily the millenials' fault, as when they're born and the technology/world around them is not of their design. They didn't orchestrate the outsourcing deportation without chance of reprieve of American manufacturing jobs their fathers and grandfathers held.
But they're dealing with it and they're a little coddled, so it's not going as well as it could.
Which, again, is at least as much their parents' fault as their own, but for people just workin' every day and trying to get by, we're still stuck in the middle. YouTube Video Placeholder
Don't care if it's basically a remake of City of Fire, the actors made it their own and it remains what is probably my favorite Tarantino movie.
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By Ramyrez 2016-11-22 10:49:00
The best outcome would be, the EC names Hillary to the White House with Mike Pence as her VP.
The best outcome would be for Trump to even out and try to deliver on his campaign promises without doing harm to the American people as a whole. The two do not necessarily have to be mutually exclusive, despite what anyone's fears (on the left) or hopes (on the extreme right) say otherwise.
Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2016-11-22 10:49:08
The older generation took a gamble but didn't foresee how much of a variable technology would play in creating a lazy and coddled generation.
Are we discussing Generation X or the Millennials in this statement? Don't millennials work far more and far harder than the generation before them? As a gen x-er, I would contest that assumption very much.
 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2016-11-22 10:50:38
I hate when you guys start naming generations. It confuses the hell out of me! Especially considering not everyone agrees on the timelines..
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By Ramyrez 2016-11-22 10:52:09
I hate when you guys start naming generations. It confuses the hell out of me! Especially considering not everyone agrees on the timelines..
Yeah. I hate doing it, but it's too damned convenient.
Node 285
Because Isack isn't on. He gets the next two. >.>
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