Jack Of All Trades: A Guide To Red Mage

Looking at Vorpal Blade on RDM and it seems pretty sweet. Essentially it's a STR version of CDC and so kinder to jobs without access to tons of DEX gear.

It is only kind of a Myth. Lower delay means you will have faster attack rounds.

I plugged 240 delay + 224 and 175 into my TP calculator(36 DW and cap haste). I didn't factor in the 4 TA from ternion

240 + 224 Delay - 115 TP/Second
240+ 175 Delay - 117 TP/Second


Also assuming raw Enspell damage and 600 Enhancing the DPS from Enspell difference damage is roughly 16 DPS between the two.

I entered some Abritrary numbers to see how this scaled with stats and include the 4 TA from Ternion (36 DW, 20 STP, 30 Ta, 18 DA)

240 + 224 - 236.5810345 TP/Second and 225.4215517 Enspell DPS
240 + 175(+4 TA) - 252.2654458(242 w/o the 4 TA) TP/Second and 262.6681446 Enspell DPS

As you can see it isn't a myth but it honestly only makes a minor difference that may be outweighed with the 50 DEX. Though I think we are discussing Savage Blade builds here so that 50 DEX may not provide much.

Now account for dDEX crit rates, pDiff for attack damage, accuracy and TP back from WS.

That is another discussion that I can't really answer because I don't have the formulas nor have I looked into figuring that out. I was just correcting you that lower delay typically means faster TP, albeit not a lot.

He derails his arguments when he is wrong. Just move along.

Can we stop discussing how well CDC, offhand Almace, etc works for BLU? Never forget that BLU gets to sub WAR and get the same DW we get for subbing NIN, gaining stat bonuses, 10% DA, Warcry, Berserk, and Aggressor.

Of Course they have better DD gear options, that's the way SE designed the job. We got thrown a few bones in Omen that BLU was left off of (Sherida Earring, Anu Torque come to mind), but that's not going to close the chasm of B to A skill, and Herculean Gear.

So let's focus on getting the most out of our RDMs. I don't think that's too much to ask on a RDM forum.

On the subjob note, has anyone tried subbing WAR w/ Sequence and Thorfinn + 1 Shield ( I think that is BiS)?

I just looked at this and it cuts your WS frequency in half without any JA haste to reach the delay cap.

Unfortunately some people are dead set on #notmyblu while others only want to feel special. In order to discuss whats best there needs to be a target because that can radically change how you gear and exactly what sets are best / ect. Your three main WS's are CDC, Savage Blade and Vorpal Blade depending on available gear. In terms of absolute power CDC is the strongest, it relies on Multi-Attack and DEX gear to exploit it and while RDM is weak on DEX gear it's doing good on Multi-Attack. Savage Blade requires TP Bonus and / or WSD gear along with STR to exploit that, RDM is ok for STR but weak on WSD gear. Vorpal requires STR and Multi-Attack stacking to exploit which RDM is doing well on both and why I'm looking at it currently. It's transfer fTP property turns it into a STR based CDC.

Comparing Savage to Vorpal gets kinda iffy because not knowing vorpals crit rate makes it difficult to calculate the average damage increase a crit would provide. Right now, at capped attack, a crit on a 1H weapon is ~30% increase in damage without any CHD gear. At lower attack values it climbs up to 100% increase when attack equals enemy defense. Without taking any crits into account Savage has a stronger multiplier, adding Multi-Attack they get about the same but with Savage slightly stronger. Crits become the wild card that are hard to pin down and swing the damage in either direction.

For offhand really depends on situation and how much accuracy / attack you need. RDM doesn't have any attack bonus's and Dia III is only so much, it's not going to be capping you out with the new caps (3.25 Ratio). Almace for accuracy and dDEX on crits, Colada's for STR / WSD / Attack stuff, even the 119 Joyeuse for more Multi-Attack (not as useful now though). Tern I would give more attention if it's stat was something other then AGI, TA+4 is cute but overall the weapon lacks punch. Tern is more of a close range RNG's weapon because it boosts Last Stand.

Thanks for the clarity in your post, Saevel. I lack Almace, and have been messing around with different offhand options in the past month. As a Murgleis or Sequence main hander, my needs change greatly based on my mainhand. I've even toyed with a Deacon blade offhand build for the sequence (hint - don't). And I plan on trying out enriching offhand for the murgleis soon, but funds lately have been diverted to my ranger.

I do love offhanding the ternion+1, I'll be honest. I aim for self chaining while solo, and it takes away all chance of timing out. I consider my other gear to be incredibly solid, so it's not a matter of lacking other gear that the ternion is making up for.

I do greatly prefer sequence for group play.

Your thoughts on vorpal are shared, I'm sure. My only concern is the lack of skillchain options compared to savage and cdc.

I think this is a valid concern. Vorpal Blade is an interesting WS that is often overlooked because CDC exists. I know sword wielding WAR and RUN play around with it but their Crit/STR gear is way beyond RDM. The power SCs on it will hurt. Even Requiescat has Gravitation on it.

Clearly You just Red Lotus Blade > Vorpal Blade > Savage Blade > CDC.

Can't, actually.

Yeah on WAR I can get Vorpal to do stupid numbers, blow BLU's away doing it. Normally I'd recommend CDC over Vorpal but RDM doesn't really have the DEX gear to maximize CDC but it does have plenty of STR gear, same reason why Savage seems to do more then CDC on stuff you solo. Because Vorpal is 60%STR and fSTR is adding another ~25% (gear wise) it ends acting exactly like CDC. Don't get lost focusing on +crit, it's a bad idea usually, instead focus on +STR / Multi-Attack / Atk / Acc and let crits be an after thought.

How much DEX can BLUs get that is such a big difference from RDM's?

+300 over base + 40% crit hit rate if I added it up right

If we're gonna go down this rabbit hole, let's go all the way down, once and for all.

BLU is a superior DD to RDM. I doubt anyone here really disagrees with this statement. They have a higher ranking in their weapon skill (A in sword compared to our B in dagger and sword). They can naitively reach DW2 without the assistance of a subjob, completely freeing up subjob choice to match purely DD needs. They can equip true DD gear, such as Herculean and Adhemar sets. And their spells boost their base stats/traits even more to support a DD role.

RDM gets....Taeon and Carmine. And those aren't really any advantage- BLU can wear 'em as well. RDM needs to sub NIN to dual wield, eliminating subjob choices that boost DD capabilities. Hell, more often than not a RDM needs to sub something to HELP the party and can't go pure DD, so subbing NIN is a detriment not only to DPS, but also to party functionality. We can't easily get WSD augments, outside of a set that is now outdated by at least 4 rounds of major gear releases (Escha Ru'Ann, Reisenjima, Ambuscade sets, AF+3), whereas a BLU can get it on the most DD-releavant set around- Herculean. We need sushi on any content still relevant due to our weapon ranking....a BLU has the option to go to meat depending on buffs/target/etc.

Ok. If I've missed any glaring exceptions, please list them. Let's beat this dead horse until the ASPCA takes us all to court, then be done with it. And when we are, let's just get the most out of our RDMs. Because face it- anyone crazy enough to melee on RDM and want to do it "right" likely has better DD jobs to select from. Its a labor of love.

^^

DW2, son BLU gets DWV if they want though that's often a waste. Instead they set DWIII with 4 set points and spend the rest on things like Store TP IV, Accuracy Bonus IV, Skillchain Bonus III, Crit Attack Bonus III, Magic Evasion Bonus III / ect. The sheer list of job traits and abilities they get isn't even a comparison for DD / hybrid setups.

I'll let ya call me son because I've seen your dog. And because you were right. God I hate that job.

Not saying I disagree with you but just want to point something out since this argument has been brought up on forum several times and it always turn into "Nooo RDM can't DD it just can't" argument without any analysis.

RDM has very high theorical DPS ceiling because:

1) Most of the good DD gears obtainable on BLU, is obtainable on RDM via DM augment if I understand how it works correctly. You get up to 10 Wsd per piece, or qa+ta, or +6 (or higher?) Crit rate or dmg from DM.

2) Sub job: the advantage of WAR as SJ is mostly eliminated with bolster frailty and chaos roll since once you are capped with attack more attack from berserk does nothing. DA from SJ isn't that relevant with high multi hit.

3) Acc: Same as attack, the advantage of acc is eliminated with buffs.

I don't have spreadsheet to be absolutely sure (I deleted mine) but I wouldn't be surprised if RDM ended up doing equal or more DPS under perfect scenarios, with perfect buffs and DM Aug, adding that extra TA from temper it may be higher.

That being said, just like DD RUN = top DPS argument, perfect scenarios= on paper only and it rarely happen in game.

Yea Vorpal prioritizes the Scission Property. Which makes its properties even more stupid.

While your points are valid, if a job is required to rely on perfect DM augments to just keep up with standard augmented gear on another job, then it really isn't a fair comparison. And by that same token, those DM augments on gear equippable by true DDs just pulls them even farther ahead of a RDM.

Trust me, I take great pride on my RDM DD gear, and want to make it better. I like to see what the job is capable of, and see myself and others try and push it. I just don't hold any illusions that my RDM is the ideal DD in ANY group situation....it can be done better and more efficiently by a job specialized in that role.

But please, fellow fencers(yes, ignore that WAR /jt ***), let's not lose faith. There are plenty of places we can have fun, and look good doing it.

Sub dark, Soul eater all the things Self cure and lol

I'm not sure about that, though. If both jobs wear exact same DM augmented gears, then whichever gets stronger native offensive JA wins since everyone has exact same gears.

In that case I'm not sure if any other light armor 1h melee job has offensive JA that's competitive to full potency temper II.

I'm not saying you suck or anything, and tbh I highly doubt anyone has that kind of augment on RDM anyways, since spending all that gil on WAR DRK SAM BLU SMN BLM has wayyyyyy better reward effort ratio IMO.

So yeah, labor of love indeed.

Fencer should of been a RDM trait. While I enjoy messing around with really insane Fencer builds on WAR, it would of been far more useful as a JT on RDM.

That and also boosting the shield rating to maybe C would at least make shields somewhat more useful than arm candy for RDM. Seriously, an F? Isn't it the only F rating in the game?

Nah, RDM also has an F in throwing

Useful, and job history appropriate! Hell the description of the Murgleis actually cites the fluke on it as used for disabling opponents with a thrusting motion... if that's not a fencing maneuver, I don't know what is!

It would make sense if you would pay attention instead of reading half of a comment before replying.

Sequence/Ternion is for Savage Blade. Of course you wouldn't offhand ternion for CDC. I specifically said that Sequence/Almace was best in slot for CDC, but not for Savage Blade. However, what I was pointing out is that the 50 DEX from Almace sub does equally little for Savage Blade as the AGI from ternion does for CDC. It's STR/MND. (And before you even reply, yes, I know you're aware of this, but if you wouldn't make such obvious misrepresentations of my position, I wouldn't have to patronize you).

If you are doing Savage Blade, you either main sequence, or you are wrong. After that consideration the next most important thing is delay. Especially with SAM roll.

And the second half of the point was, given how much gear RDM has available either through Skirmish, or especially through DM augments (which was the topic of this conversation in the first place), RDM's potential for Savage Blade beats RDM's potential for CDC in a landslide.

What part of this is confusing you?

It's not even as much that as it is what happens when you add COR rolls. Since the store TP gained from SAM Roll is a flat bonus, you get more out of it when your attack rounds are faster.