Monothiesm And The 3 Abrahamic Faiths

I agree with Ravael btw on how this life is meant to be a test and the afterlife is much greater. So much so that this life will seem like nothing at all in comparison. That might be a little too faith based for those of us who have issues with the suffering in the world, but it is a legitimate perspective. At the same time it doesn't dissolve us of our responsability towards one another to be good and charitable.

But like Saevel pointed out, people will decieve themselves into thinking they are doing the right thing when it is convinient or necessary.

You don't need to look very far or hard for examples of this. Parenthood, as an example, is a situation where being fair and just becomes difficult.

I've never heard a parent say "my son/daughter is a bully"... EVER. I have heard them say "he/she is just misunderstood, wants/lacks attention, is their way of showing others they exist" etc etc. Fact is their kids are bullies. But they just can't bring themselves to admit it, and most of the times even consider it as a possibility.
It is MUCH easier to hold yourself accountable than it is to see your kids for what they are, when they are bad.

How many of you grew up with a sibling that got away with everything when you were young, and saw that same sibling do really well in life, up until everything in their life started falling apart?
I raise my hand.

By the time you're in your mid 30's, all that special treatment offspring experienced comes to bight them in the ***. Their worlds come crashing down when all of a sudden they're held up to the same standards and expectations as everyone else.

That strong feeling of self entitlement and feeling like a special snowflake that seemed to make them float above the rest throughout their life suddenly becomes a plethora of undesirable characterstics, bad habits such as cutting people off when they're talking, double standards, attention demanding and complete lack of self-drive.

That's just an example of how being uneven handed with your kids can have long term consequences that will detract from others' experiences and well being. You're setting a monster out into the world who's going to bring misery and stress to anyone around them.

Joefrey from game of thrones basically.

*image of that 13-14 year old kid from game of thrones breastfeeding from his mom*

I like where this is going...

While we're on the topic of breasts - one huge difference between Islam and the two other Abrahamic religions is sex.

Islam doesn't shy away from healthy sexual lawful relationships. Anything goes as long as it isn't sodomy.
I mean your wife can actually divorce you in Islam if she's not sexually satisfied and it becomes a problem. Of course its done in a discreet way to protect both partners less she be branded as a nympho and him as being impotent.

As far as I know both christianity and Judiasm are rather prude about sex and see it as something sinful or tainted/jaded.

On the other hand I think Islam gets a bad rep as being oppressive towards women in that sense. But there's no such thing as a Nun in Islam. To me, that sounds oppressive yet I can admire such a woman's devotion to her beliefs.

Lame.

keke

So this is why the blow themselves up in public markets...

Like a good friend of mine always says "all the good ***is forbidden dude. Alcohole, *** and bacon".
He says that but he doesn't drink, practice sodomy or eat bacon. Doesn't mean he doesn't like them.


oh wtf Fon?

My bad not all Muslims just the ones that do !

All three are pretty much identical about sex as they all pull from the same basic material. The differences come with the interpretations and specific branch of that religion you currently follow. Sex outside of lawful marriage is considered sinful by all three religions, there are just different interpretations of what "lawful marriage" means and to what degree it should be enforced.

In the middle east under Sharia law (that's Islamic law) any women who has sex outside of marriage should be stoned to death. That is why they stoned those rape victims. The reason one male member of her household is supposed to be with her at all times in public is to ensure she doesn't have sex outside of marriage. There are only two exceptions, first being when the male owns the female as a slave, in which case she's considered a concubine of his. Second being a form of "temporary marriage" or Nikah Mut'ah, a fixed period arrangement that's expiration is agreed upon prior to it happening, which is how prostitution occurs.

Now stop viewing all Christianity as the 18th century Puritan movement that founded many of the denominations in the USA. Those were the people upon who sex was this super taboo subject to not be discussed openly. Other forms of Christianity were quite open about the subject of sex though still officially limiting it to "one man and one women".

The word "Christian" should be used very carefully when referring to specifics because of how incredibly broad it is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations_by_number_of_members

There are so many schisms and different interpretations / sects that any judgement made for one doesn't exactly hold for the others. Islam on the other hand is still intact as a religion and more importantly as a system of law. That was the single greatest achievement of the Reformation, advocating for a separation of Religion and State (law). They did it so as not to be persecuted as heretics but the effect was to break theological control over sovereign nations, which in turn enables modern liberal (actual meaning of the term) interpretations to become accepted. This is why the concept of a "Moderate Islam" is nonsense, it can't exist as long as the religious law is used as the state law as the religious law expressly forbids attempts at moderation. A "moderate Muslim" could be argued to be an "unlawful Muslim" and therefor not a "true Muslim" by the religious leaders.

If you're in Dubai during my next visit, that is :/

Eh, we probably covered that in a previous thread, but here we go again:

- All punishments for Hudud (punishments for majors sins that were stated explicitly in Sharia) do not discriminate between male and female. That includes unlawful sex aka fornication.

- The punishment for fornication isn't stoning, it's flogging. Proving the actual occurrence of fornication isn't simple, there's due process & a lot of considerations (making it technically a pretty rare occasion, unless people start doing it on the streets).

- Stoning rape victims has as much to do with Islamic law as honor killings.

- The Sharia does not mandate a male guardian to accompany the woman every time she goes out. Women are not property of men. My wife isn't my property, nor my daughter nor any other female member of the family whom I'm their guardian (as head of the household, who provides, and shoulders a lot of responsibilities). And if some Muslim country's cultural custom really mandate that, it's for reasons other than "to ensure she doesn't have sex outside of marriage".
Again, honor killings etc, cultural practices that have no solid roots (or actually go against) in Islamic jurisprudence.

- Temporary Marriage or "Nikah Mut'ah" is only practiced by Twelvers Shi'a, Sunnis reject it. The Twelvers represent a minority sect (albeit the largest minority) that has a lot of problems with its methodology, but that's beyond the scope of this post.


These are not my personal beliefs nor my personal interpretations; I'm no scholar, and that (interpreting the religion without acquiring the tools to do so...just like any other field) doesn't work in Islam. I learned about and accepted these positions after reading and asking learned scholars (aka people whose education isn't limited to Islamic sciences, not stuck in their own little caves to the point it corrupts their conception of the world) whom I trust.

Exodus 22:20 and Quran 60:8
I don't think these are the same God despite what you guys think.

Eh, it all depends on whether or not you think that those verses are:
1. Actually the result of revelation from God.
2. Actually translated correctly and/or unmodified from the original.
3. Actually interpreted correctly and in the proper context.

I would argue that they're all worshiping the same god, just with a collectively broad and skewed understanding of what exactly He has said and who exactly He is. Then again, that's more of an argument of semantics than anything. On the other extreme it could be argued that nobody worships the same god, since everyone's idea of God is at least slightly different.

Personally I think it requires a lot of hubris to think that your religion or sect has the best interpretation among the many without some kind of miraculous revelation to confirm it, though....

Ftfy!

I love how you just copy pasted that Sav.

A family member has to be with a female when going out for the sake of her safety, not because she is his slave.

"temporary marriage" or Nikah Mut'ah is not actually Islamic. The Shia has that but not the Sunnah's.

Ofcourse they aren't from the same God, Saint Paul wrote 60% of the bible of what he acquired knowledge and memorization of what Jesus(PBUH) said.

You can also see how there are multiple versions of the Bible.

As for the Quran, for us muslims, the words come from God himself and unlike the bible, we ALL (1.7 billion muslims) have the same one book. So you cannot really compare the two in context.

Copy and pasted what?

What does a family member going out with a women have to do with being property? Both your and the poster above make illogical irrational arguments. The male guardian is about ensuring that not only does the female not engage in unlawful acts with another man, but that she (and her family) can claim she doesn't. It provides a witness to testify that she has indeed remained "virtuous". Don't laugh Christianity did something similiar, it's where the concept of chaperone came from. Throughout history all families wished to express out virtuous their daughters were. Asian cultures have similiar traditions. Islam just codified a common tradition into law.


It most certainly is. You are now engaging in the fallacy of "no true Scotsman", "no true Muslim would do X common practice among Muslims".

This is what I meant by


Attempting to deflect or deny a fact about the culture or tradition of a religion out of a feeling to defend it's social perception. All it does is weaken your position because not even the weakest of minds would accept the deflections as anything other then what they are.

Islam, like all religions, is a practical one, it made exceptions and "understandings" in order to be compatible with the real world and thus widely adopted. It's only when taken to the extreme that is becomes dangerous and self destructive.

The book of quran was handed down by a angel to mohamed who was illiterate which means he could not write or read is what your fellowship of believers claim he got from your god.

The words from the Bible were written down by men who were in fellowship with Jesus and wrote from what Jesus said to them. Which my fellowship of believers claim got from my god.

So yes indeed we can really compare the two in context from our gods words to gods believers.

The only difference is forcing our beliefs on others.

Through data bases of ancient documents there was 548 Islamic Jihad battles against the classical world, from archeology beneath the mediterranean and archeology taken from land from 620AD to 1920 AD not including recent active events of Islamic events today.

Compared to the Roman Crusades of Christians with 16 battles starting from 1090 AD to 1260 AD which were defensive measures of the relentless assault of islamic jihad in Europe. Did you actually think us europeans would just accept the invasion without a response ?

There are some really, really fascinating Christian traditions in the Middle East/Africa that aren't well known, popular, or frequently discussed. I can't even remember the name of it but there's one sect in Egypt that I was reading about not long ago that's amazingly interesting.

I wish I had kept some bookmarks or something. I got into it reading about the concept of the "lost gospels" stuff and various other bits.

1) Wrong. Quran says 100 hits with a stick in public for adultery. Stonening to death was applied for adultery for the ones who were also married but this punishment is not defined in Quran. Furthermore, do you know how the evidentiary standards for those extreme punishments were impossibly high? Because of that, applying them was extremely rare. For example; you had to present 4 Muslim eyewitnesses to accuse a woman of adultery and they had to see it in action. Yes, you heard it right. Even seeing them naked in a bed together was not enough to accuse them. Another example is that if a thief refused his crimes, his sentence would be waived. It is even said that Muhammed (pbuh) strictly ordered those punishments to not be applied if there are any ambiguities.

2) Wrong. They stoned rape victims because they were savage beasts. That isn't Sharia Law, that is madness.

3) Wrong. Quran tells women to cover themselves so that they avoid attraction as much as possible, but nowhere Quran tells women to not leave home without their husbands. Sharia Law dictates men to protect their wifes, but not cling to them with glue.

4) Wrong. Slavery is forbidden in Quran, plain and simple. If someone claims to keep a woman as a slave and have sex with her, that would be no different than adultery.


It is true that Mut'ah exists even today, but you can't decieve God and Mut'ah is just foolishly trying to do that. It isn't accepted in Sunni sects at all and is considered identical to adultery and thus, also Haram (strictly forbidden by religion).

Lol.

I'm not a apologist i would not allow some invading faith enslave my family or force their beliefs at sword point. You better believe i would respond.

It must be amazing being Lordgrim. Seriously. The delusion is so strong. It must be like being on X 24-7.

So when will my fellow FFXIAH drop there keyboards and join in the fight for Islam ?

their *

...I have a G510. I'm not dropping that thing for anything.

I'd be willing to fight for Islam but what is Islam going to do for me ?

Also the "no alcohol" thing that goes against my religion...

Well yeah all three of these religions have the same roots and peoples but people focus more on the differences then the similarities.

And yes the Islamic posters have now demonstrated what's wrong with Islam and why the control of it (well most of) is still in the hands of extremists in the middle east. "But but but but NOT MY ISLAM!!!!" You are only fooling yourselves.

Yeah, well, man...have I got a religion for you.

Huh WTF is he talking about....

Crusades were opportunists political *** at it's finest. The first one was the only one that had any sort of credibility as it was in response to the call of aid from the Byzantine Empire to repel the invading Turks, who just happened to be Muslim. At first it got no real support among Western European leaders so the Pope turned it into a "Holy Way" and offered a form of "spiritual pardons" to anyone who participated which often translated into real legal pardons as Church law was frequently the law of the land in Medieval times. That's right, Christians had their own form of Sharia law (just to poke at Sehachan).

Of course after the crusade was completed, mass genocides included, the commanders and nations involved refused to give the land back to the Byzantines like they had originally promised. Then followed several other crusades that got progressively worse, as though the first wasn't bad enough.