Maximizing Helix

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Maximizing Helix
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By Kisagotami 2016-09-06 16:54:14
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I just tested my Bookworm's Cape with "Helix eff. dur. +20" and it appears to be a percentage duration increase. It added 46 seconds to my helix duration (228 * 1.2 = 273.6). So it's essentially a 20% damage boost. So a Lugh's Cape would have to do 20% more initial damage to beat it. I don't think that's possible ...?
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 Asura.Cicion
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By Asura.Cicion 2016-09-06 17:25:08
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Lughs has another 10 magic dmg 26-30 int and 12 ish macc. You prolly want the better chance at hitting capped helix dmg then the xtra 46ish seconds i think.
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By Kisagotami 2016-09-06 17:35:02
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Asura.Cicion said: »
Lughs has another 10 magic dmg 26-30 int and 12 ish macc. You prolly want the better chance at hitting capped helix dmg then the xtra 46ish seconds i think.
What I'm saying is that Lugh's Cape would only be better if it added 20% more initial damage over the Bookworm's cape. Assuming you don't have accuracy issues.

So does an extra 25-30 INT, and 10 Mdmg add 20% initial damage? I highly doubt it, especially since dINT for helix 2 spells caps at +100.
 Asura.Toralin
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By Asura.Toralin 2016-09-06 17:51:15
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so 46 seconds is 4 "tocs" so that could potentially be an additional 40k dmg
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By Antisense 2016-09-07 00:20:43
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Good call-out on duration.

You can compare the relative difference in overall damage between capes based on helix base damage alone, since the difference in max-augment capes will be based on dINT and magic damage. The greater the dINT spread, the smaller the gap in damage.

For example, using helix I base damage to compare (what is the formula for II anyway), given 240 magic damage and dINT = 100 with Lugh's Cape +30 INT versus 230 magic damage and dINT = 70 with Bookworm's cape +0 INT, then a Lugh's helix would do ~9% more damage per tock:

((103+0.5(100-78)+240)/(25+70+230) - 1)100% = 8.92%

During a fight where all the tocks are realized (e.g., mob isn't dispelling or the mob doesn't die before the helix wears off), Bookworm's might provide some value.

For example, let's say you're soloing Amymone and it puts up Polar Bulwark before you finish a Compression or Gravitation SC to MB Kaustra, but you get Noctohelix off. You might get unlucky and end up having the helix actually going the full duration. In this case, at least you're doing damage while waiting for the shield to fall.
 Carbuncle.Nynja
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By Carbuncle.Nynja 2016-09-07 02:29:26
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Duration is great and all if you're lazy...but answer this:
Is duration any useful if the mob dies before that extra duration kicks in?
Is there any reason you cant recast the Helix when it wears?

And lets not forget all the extra macc on Lugh from the INT and Macc itself...
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2016-09-07 02:41:20
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Kisagotami said: »
I just tested my Bookworm's Cape with "Helix eff. dur. +20" and it appears to be a percentage duration increase. It added 46 seconds to my helix duration (228 * 1.2 = 273.6). So it's essentially a 20% damage boost. So a Lugh's Cape would have to do 20% more initial damage to beat it. I don't think that's possible ...?
If your test turns out to be true it's 4 more tocks, which is a HUGE increase in damage.
But the problem still stands: will the monster last enough for the 4 tocks to take effect? Does the mob have abilities that allow him to erase the Helix effect?
How much damage does Lugh add over Bookworm when you're far from reaching the 10k threshold? I imagine a lot but clearly it can't be that much.

Some examples:
If your helix without Lugh hits for 3k, Bookworm would add 12k more damage.
If Lugh allows you to reach 4k that would be 24.000 more damage (24 tocks with Dark Arts and capped JPs. Even more if you use Tabula Rasa of course).
If Lugh allows you to reach 3,5k that would be 12k, which is the same damage added by bookworm.
Lugh duration is ~4', Bookworm (capped) duration would be ~4'48"

X = BookwormDMG *4 - (LughDMG-BookDMG)*24

If X > 0 then it's beneficial to use Lugh in place of Bookworm, the higher X is above 0, the more beneficial. All of this while keeping in mind that BookDMG and LughDMG need to be < 10k because beyond that there's no point.



So tl;dr
Pro players will need to have a manual trigger to turn on and off and decide wether they want to cast with Bookworm or Lugh.
If you only want to pick one and call a compromise, I don't really know what to suggest, but probably between the two I'd go for Lugh.
 Carbuncle.Nynja
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By Carbuncle.Nynja 2016-09-07 02:57:49
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And we havent discussed sub 5k Helixes and Modus (when it lands)
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2016-09-07 03:14:50
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I'm not sure it's the "mathematically most efficient" thing to do, but whenever I'm fighting HELMs or high tier stuff and my helix lands for less than 5k I always try to Modus.
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By Kisagotami 2016-09-07 06:53:44
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Antisense said: »
(what is the formula for II anyway)
V=149 with Dark Arts (124 without), M=1, dINT caps at 100, and I haven't found a cap on Mdmg (tested up to like 330 or something, I forget).

Just looking at the math for my own sets, even if my dINT was zero Bookworm's would still win. That's assuming it gets to play out the entire duration and you don't need the extra magic accuracy on Lugh's. And I'm not sure what kind of INT higher level stuff has but my dINT was capped when I was testing the duration on Dazzling Dolores. Of course the math doesn't always match up to reality and/or I could just be doing my math wrong.
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