Thats a VERY huge if.
Requires a lot of ***that you won't see much of.
I think only 20 capes drop per year per server tbh, the drop rate is low and not many people have access to it.
SCH Vs. BLM
SCH vs. BLM
Korpg said:
I think only 20 capes drop per year per server tbh, the drop rate is low and not many people have access to it.
What cape ? Merciful ? Easy to get really :s Especially since Ix' can be solo/low man'd. I got both cape rather quickly.
Which Ix'Aern we talking about?
I know its not DRG cause I got my SMN cape from it the other day.
I'm thinking its DRK though. And I'm talking about the drop rate sucks for it. Granted, its not as rare as Defending Ring, but if you honestly think about it, not that many people kill any of the 3 Ix'Aerns, and the drop rate sucks for cape.
I know its not DRG cause I got my SMN cape from it the other day.
I'm thinking its DRK though. And I'm talking about the drop rate sucks for it. Granted, its not as rare as Defending Ring, but if you honestly think about it, not that many people kill any of the 3 Ix'Aerns, and the drop rate sucks for cape.
Drop rate is about 1/10, but knowing you can chain these aern and that there's no claim fight at all, really not hard.
I mean if someone can have a novio, someone can have that cape.. And for the +elemental skill cape, that's Ix'MNK, can be duo'd easily.
I mean if someone can have a novio, someone can have that cape.. And for the +elemental skill cape, that's Ix'MNK, can be duo'd easily.
Novio is an easier drop though, all you have to do is kill JoL, and he is easy. Larger drop rate too.
Killing JoL involve having a dedicated sea LS, while Ix', again, can be duo'd by anyone at any time. Not like sea is over camped, same goes for Ix' aern. Bonus : You can sell back deeds to sea LS or trade it back for pops items so you can try for more cape. (some LS just want pops for tier II and JoL since they're done with cape).
All I know is that within 3 weeks I got both Ix'MNK and Ix'DRK cape, novio earring and prudence torque. Having a dedicated sea LS helps and speed up that process.
Definitely not 20 cape per year and per server, got 5+ Ix'mnk cape for my LS during August/September 2008. Sure we played A LOT and had dedicated members and some luck too off course.
It just takes time, can be boring, like meriting, but it's not something you cannot access because you have no static or something.
All I know is that within 3 weeks I got both Ix'MNK and Ix'DRK cape, novio earring and prudence torque. Having a dedicated sea LS helps and speed up that process.
Definitely not 20 cape per year and per server, got 5+ Ix'mnk cape for my LS during August/September 2008. Sure we played A LOT and had dedicated members and some luck too off course.
It just takes time, can be boring, like meriting, but it's not something you cannot access because you have no static or something.
Korpg said:
Novio is an easier drop though, all you have to do is kill JoL, and he is easy. Larger drop rate too.
Or buy it for 20m /looks away
Aliceisback said:
Korpg said:
Novio is an easier drop though, all you have to do is kill JoL, and he is easy. Larger drop rate too.
Or buy it for 20m /looks away
At this rate you can buy cape too :P Not like selling rare/ex was impossible :D We did sold lot of torque when I was still doing sea.
Hehe I just like saying i bought a earring for a friend for 20M :).
Damn should have bought it in there :p 15M only :D
Antipika said:
Killing JoL involve having a dedicated sea LS, while Ix', again, can be duo'd by anyone at any time. Not like sea is over camped, same goes for Ix' aern. Bonus : You can sell back deeds to sea LS or trade it back for pops items so you can try for more cape. (some LS just want pops for tier II and JoL since they're done with cape).
All I know is that within 3 weeks I got both Ix'MNK and Ix'DRK cape, novio earring and prudence torque. Having a dedicated sea LS helps and speed up that process.
Definitely not 20 cape per year and per server, got 5+ Ix'mnk cape for my LS during August/September 2008. Sure we played A LOT and had dedicated members and some luck too off course.
It just takes time, can be boring, like meriting, but it's not something you cannot access because you have no static or something.
All I know is that within 3 weeks I got both Ix'MNK and Ix'DRK cape, novio earring and prudence torque. Having a dedicated sea LS helps and speed up that process.
Definitely not 20 cape per year and per server, got 5+ Ix'mnk cape for my LS during August/September 2008. Sure we played A LOT and had dedicated members and some luck too off course.
It just takes time, can be boring, like meriting, but it's not something you cannot access because you have no static or something.
I don't know about your server, but on Asura, there isn't a whole hell of a lot of sea only shells. Most of the time the shells that do sea are usually endgame. And they only go for the torques, meaning that some of the endgame acutally buy their deeds. The few that farm their deeds don't farm them more than 2 times a month. Factor in the drop rate of the capes and you will see why I say about 20 capes of each fall in a year time.
I wish to thank everyone who has responded. I have been following the responses and have read them all.
I have not responded to this point because I don't have any experience with either job in late-game scenarios and therefore did not have anything substantial to add to the debates taking place.
To sum up what I have taken from this discussion, it seems to break down simply to a spike damage vs. damage over time debate.
That is to say, that BLM will deliver more damage in the same gear using the same spell, but that over a longer timeframe, the BLM could cast that spell 3 times, whereas the SCH would cast it 4 making his total damage higher.
Again, I thank all who have responded to this point, and any who continues to respond.
(Maybe I have oversimplified the discussion, therefore I apologize in advance to anyone offended by my minimizing their favorite job. That is not my intent.)
I have not responded to this point because I don't have any experience with either job in late-game scenarios and therefore did not have anything substantial to add to the debates taking place.
To sum up what I have taken from this discussion, it seems to break down simply to a spike damage vs. damage over time debate.
That is to say, that BLM will deliver more damage in the same gear using the same spell, but that over a longer timeframe, the BLM could cast that spell 3 times, whereas the SCH would cast it 4 making his total damage higher.
Again, I thank all who have responded to this point, and any who continues to respond.
(Maybe I have oversimplified the discussion, therefore I apologize in advance to anyone offended by my minimizing their favorite job. That is not my intent.)
Boyaci said:
That is to say, that BLM will deliver more damage in the same gear using the same spell
This is incorrect also. If the two jobs were using identical gear, SCH would still do more damage due to the INT+7 and +10% potency from Hailstorm, and also Ebullience, the +20% potency. The real benefit BLM has is that it gets better gear, enough to push it past all that stuff.
Enternius said:
Boyaci said:
That is to say, that BLM will deliver more damage in the same gear using the same spell
This is incorrect also. If the two jobs were using identical gear, SCH would still do more damage due to the INT+7 and +10% potency from Hailstorm, and also Ebullience, the +20% potency. The real benefit BLM has is that it gets better gear, enough to push it past all that stuff.
Thank you for the correction.
Enternius said:
Boyaci said:
That is to say, that BLM will deliver more damage in the same gear using the same spell
This is incorrect also. If the two jobs were using identical gear, SCH would still do more damage due to the INT+7 and +10% potency from Hailstorm, and also Ebullience, the +20% potency. The real benefit BLM has is that it gets better gear, enough to push it past all that stuff.
Not really.
1. blm has higher base int so your gaining less.
2. To force that 10% you'll have to wear obi losing the int and macc from other belts.
3. The extra MAB from jt and merits is only slightly less than the ebullience bonus
4. Yeah it's not the same spell but AM2.
5. If you wore the same gear as my blm does for HNMs your resist rate would be comparable to that of a rdm not /sch. Ie really crappy.
6. And if blm has day or weather too they can get that 10% plus another 5 from legs
More than just getting better gear we are able to wear more dmg gear and not care about macc/skill as much or hardly at all
Antipika said:
Drop rate is about 1/10, but knowing you can chain these aern and that there's no claim fight at all, really not hard.
I mean if someone can have a novio, someone can have that cape.. And for the +elemental skill cape, that's Ix'MNK, can be duo'd easily.
I mean if someone can have a novio, someone can have that cape.. And for the +elemental skill cape, that's Ix'MNK, can be duo'd easily.
Yeah its semi easy fight if you can pop it. However 0/3 for me. It's still a bit of time and work and hell there are people without sea. Also thats not the hard peice to get. AF+1 body will take time. But really goodluck getting aureole.
Dasva said:
Not really.
1. blm has higher base int so your gaining less.
2. To force that 10% you'll have to wear obi losing the int and macc from other belts.
3. The extra MAB from jt and merits is only slightly less than the ebullience bonus
4. Yeah it's not the same spell but AM2.
5. If you wore the same gear as my blm does for HNMs your resist rate would be comparable to that of a rdm not /sch. Ie really crappy.
6. And if blm has day or weather too they can get that 10% plus another 5 from legs
More than just getting better gear we are able to wear more dmg gear and not care about macc/skill as much or hardly at all
1. blm has higher base int so your gaining less.
2. To force that 10% you'll have to wear obi losing the int and macc from other belts.
3. The extra MAB from jt and merits is only slightly less than the ebullience bonus
4. Yeah it's not the same spell but AM2.
5. If you wore the same gear as my blm does for HNMs your resist rate would be comparable to that of a rdm not /sch. Ie really crappy.
6. And if blm has day or weather too they can get that 10% plus another 5 from legs
More than just getting better gear we are able to wear more dmg gear and not care about macc/skill as much or hardly at all
1. BLM has 2 more INT at 75.
2. Doesn't BLM wear the Obis too?
3. Even capped Thunder Potency will only put you at +12 MAB, and then +8 more base MAB than a SCH, giving 20 total MAB that SCH doesn't have, whereas Ebullience gives the equivalent of anywhere from 30-40 MAB depending on your gear.
4. And an SCH's Thunder IV can even compare to an average BLM's Burst II.
5. "Really crappy" as in 5 less skill, meaning 2.5 less M.ACC?
6. Yes, but good luck getting weather on your side without an SCH anyway.
1. Yeah so you'd only get 5int assuming your using ice weather and have that fully merited.
2. Yes blms can use obis but that totally kills your getting bonuses from weather point
3. Actually blm potency adds 2MAB each so itd be 10 from merits. JT for blm is 32 while /rdm is 20. So that's 22. Ebullience is more like 24ish with just MAB from /rdm and really how much you gonna wear and keep your resist rate good?
4. Yeah and Ive done more with my rdm/schs thunder3 than a blms thunder4... but really why compare a well geared mage to poorly
5. I don't think you even got this point. On HNMs a good blm needs to add hardly any skill/resist gear. Usually af gloves is enough. A sch has 20 more skill to add due to lower base skill. And um where are you getting your 5kill~2.5macc? Theres some debate weather its straigh 1 for 1 or 1 to .9 but .5 wtf!?!
6. Again really this goes back to number 2 but I could get the a sch to help which wasn't specified and theres always day. And either way I'm gonna get 5int and 2macc 2 mag crit so really I'm fine.
2. Yes blms can use obis but that totally kills your getting bonuses from weather point
3. Actually blm potency adds 2MAB each so itd be 10 from merits. JT for blm is 32 while /rdm is 20. So that's 22. Ebullience is more like 24ish with just MAB from /rdm and really how much you gonna wear and keep your resist rate good?
4. Yeah and Ive done more with my rdm/schs thunder3 than a blms thunder4... but really why compare a well geared mage to poorly
5. I don't think you even got this point. On HNMs a good blm needs to add hardly any skill/resist gear. Usually af gloves is enough. A sch has 20 more skill to add due to lower base skill. And um where are you getting your 5kill~2.5macc? Theres some debate weather its straigh 1 for 1 or 1 to .9 but .5 wtf!?!
6. Again really this goes back to number 2 but I could get the a sch to help which wasn't specified and theres always day. And either way I'm gonna get 5int and 2macc 2 mag crit so really I'm fine.
Hey look, the OP's levelling SCH. Way to go BLM's!
I totally saw that coming.
I totally saw that coming.
Korpg said:
Antonioklaus said:
BLM was able to solo LBC where SCH was not.
I've never seen a SCH manaburn Ouryu fight.
SCH is dynamis is nice.
I've never seen a SCH manaburn Ouryu fight.
SCH is dynamis is nice.
Quote:
Kanican's Live Journal
Black Mage VS Scholar
As mentioned many times in some of my previous posts on the subject, Scholar is a much more MP efficient nuker than BLM due to the use of Parsimony charges as well as the innate Dark Arts bonus. Although BLM can deal more damage when given only a short period of time, over time, a SCH has the potential to deal out more much damage in the long run given equal resist rates.
The fact that BLM can nuke harder in short spurts is really not a benefit in most HNM fights since you're not looking for strong spurts of magical damage typically (such spurts are generally for melee damage, while magical damage is used for "control" fights). Really the only thing BLM has as an advantage over SCH when it comes to long duration HNM fights is their higher base magic accuracy - a base difference of +20 Skill and +2 INT. Long story short:
If a Scholar can attain the same magical accuracy on elemental damage as Black Mage, it will be superior to Black Mage as a magical DD in every meaningful way - MP efficiency, enmity control, and overall damage output.
If you are a Scholar, your goal is really to do this. Endgame is about efficiency - the efficient get spots in the alliance, the inefficient generally would/should not. The question is, is this possible now? In the future?
Black Mage VS Scholar
As mentioned many times in some of my previous posts on the subject, Scholar is a much more MP efficient nuker than BLM due to the use of Parsimony charges as well as the innate Dark Arts bonus. Although BLM can deal more damage when given only a short period of time, over time, a SCH has the potential to deal out more much damage in the long run given equal resist rates.
The fact that BLM can nuke harder in short spurts is really not a benefit in most HNM fights since you're not looking for strong spurts of magical damage typically (such spurts are generally for melee damage, while magical damage is used for "control" fights). Really the only thing BLM has as an advantage over SCH when it comes to long duration HNM fights is their higher base magic accuracy - a base difference of +20 Skill and +2 INT. Long story short:
If a Scholar can attain the same magical accuracy on elemental damage as Black Mage, it will be superior to Black Mage as a magical DD in every meaningful way - MP efficiency, enmity control, and overall damage output.
If you are a Scholar, your goal is really to do this. Endgame is about efficiency - the efficient get spots in the alliance, the inefficient generally would/should not. The question is, is this possible now? In the future?
Bolded statment is the problem. SCH will be very hard pressed to get the ideal INT120/Skill320 that is needed for most HNMs. I seriously doubt they can achieve that imo.
Ya sorry, if you look at the link to the LJ, he has that bolded part in red. It wouldnt't let me change the color of the font here.
As we speak, my INT without food in my crappy nuking gear is 72+43, or 115, and my Elemental Skill with minimal merits (Seriously, 2 merits or 4 skill) is 302. Once I cap my INT (3 more) and Elemental skill (12 more), I'll only be 2 INT and 6 Elemental skill away from the ideal 120/320. And my gear really isn't even good yet.
Well let's not forget BLM can also sub SCH -.-;
So much for the efficiency problem.
So much for the efficiency problem.
Izey said:
Well let's not forget BLM can also sub SCH -.-;
So much for the efficiency problem.
So much for the efficiency problem.
2 charges on /SCH vs 4 charges on SCH , hi2u.
Holyman said:
Izey said:
Well let's not forget BLM can also sub SCH -.-;
So much for the efficiency problem.
So much for the efficiency problem.
2 charges on /SCH vs 4 charges on SCH , hi2u.
oh cause those extra 2 charges will make up for the less dd nuke damage, hi2u2
Enternius said:
As we speak, my INT without food in my crappy nuking gear is 72+43, or 115, and my Elemental Skill with minimal merits (Seriously, 2 merits or 4 skill) is 302. Once I cap my INT (3 more) and Elemental skill (12 more), I'll only be 2 INT and 6 Elemental skill away from the ideal 120/320. And my gear really isn't even good yet.
Dude, when you cap merits AND cap gear then, and i mean then don't you think you will have the chance to say you can beat blm's. Of course you won't but THEN you will be a lil closer.
Korpg said:
Thats a VERY huge if.
Requires a lot of ***that you won't see much of.
I think only 20 capes drop per year per server tbh, the drop rate is low and not many people have access to it.
Requires a lot of ***that you won't see much of.
I think only 20 capes drop per year per server tbh, the drop rate is low and not many people have access to it.
Wow really?... My ls has got 4 this week. So i guess the next 51 weeks will only see 16, damn that sucks ***.
Enternius said:
Dasva said:
Not really.
1. blm has higher base int so your gaining less.
2. To force that 10% you'll have to wear obi losing the int and macc from other belts.
3. The extra MAB from jt and merits is only slightly less than the ebullience bonus
4. Yeah it's not the same spell but AM2.
5. If you wore the same gear as my blm does for HNMs your resist rate would be comparable to that of a rdm not /sch. Ie really crappy.
6. And if blm has day or weather too they can get that 10% plus another 5 from legs
1. blm has higher base int so your gaining less.
2. To force that 10% you'll have to wear obi losing the int and macc from other belts.
3. The extra MAB from jt and merits is only slightly less than the ebullience bonus
4. Yeah it's not the same spell but AM2.
5. If you wore the same gear as my blm does for HNMs your resist rate would be comparable to that of a rdm not /sch. Ie really crappy.
6. And if blm has day or weather too they can get that 10% plus another 5 from legs
4. And an SCH's Thunder IV can even compare to an average BLM's Burst II.
Why do you keep talking/posting. A SCH's Thunder4 doesn't even beat an AVERAGE BLM's Thunder4.
From a Limbus run we just did today. Demetria is a BLM, I'm on SCH, and Cyprian is the RDM.
Uematsu said:
[oh cause those extra 2 charges will make up for the less dd nuke damage, hi2u2
Lol I don't think you realize the concept of "more damage over time" , basically SCH will DO less damage per nuke but at same time will nuke more frequent than BLM .. It's not about how much damage you do per nuke , it's about how many times u can nuke before resting .. That is SCH power.
Enternius said:
From a Limbus run we just did today. Demetria is a BLM, I'm on SCH, and Cyprian is the RDM.
Hmm one thing i noticed is the blm had drained 125, with 2 casts. This implys this blm is horendous, im talking wow horendous.
not to mention there average thunder4 did 607 damage. thats pathetic
Uematsu said:
Hmm one thing i noticed is the blm had drained 125, with 2 casts. This implys this blm is horendous, im talking wow horendous.
It implies she had full, or close to full HP for both drains. Way to go, genius.
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