Populism And Nationalism On The Rise In Europe

I responded to Seha, not Ruaumoko.

Which indirectly responds to Ruau, but that was not my intent.

Your response to me, I responded directly. I never directly responded to Ruau because I didn't feel like responding directly to him.

Why are you getting so defensive towards me?

Actually, the sarcasm was directed towards you, who I quoted.

Remember, when people quote somebody, they generally are addressing them, not anyone else.

And yes, that's a sarcastic reply also. I hope you learned something today.

Except that I wasn't saying "pass" on re-educating US citizens. I said "pass" on forcing people into your brand of *** (I mean, you don't like nationalism, fine, but "re-educating" people to believe in your brand of ***? I mean, come on now, you can't be that dumb!).

It's useful as it shows the current strength of economic power a country has. It doesn't show historical strength unless you compare years together with all countries and/or regions.

The question posed by Seha was that she didn't believe that Italy had a strong GDP. I corrected her using the most current information presented to us. If she said that Italy never had a strong GDP, I would have corrected her using historical information instead.

Italy is stronger than most people are willing to present, mainly because of the lack of information presented. Just because you do not see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

No.

Also haven't heard of any claims of irregularity. Hofer himself just admitted defeat.

Although it's worth noting that 50.3% to 49.7% is hardly a "victory".

Nice that the FPÖ candidate did not win.

Have a nice day.

I had to check that this was, in fact, a liberal/environmental party and not some kind of football related thing.

I dont think he's a liberal, he's a socialist/environmentalist

In the US, those are largely synonymous, so you can imagine why I'd not make the distinction. Either way, groooovy for Austria

Most countries have Greens, even America. In Australia for example they are often the third party that swings results by allying with either Labor or Liberal. Most often Labor.

Yeah, I get that, I just wasn't sure if it was just a case of "same name, totally unrelated".

Here liberals and socialists are on the opposite of the political spectrum. but good to know :)

It was sort of eerie to me when I moved here. You have "socialist but mildly towards commie" and "socialist but fiscally conservative". Apparently the latter is somehow possible in spiderland.

Liberal tends to have varying meanings across the globe. Progressive would be a better term to define a left leaning party vs conservative right leaning.

Anyway.

America, where we label politicians we don't like "communist-fascist", with zero cares given to their dialectical opposition on the ideological spectrum.

I've met many Americans in-person who don't actually know the difference between Socialism and Communism. I've even had people express worry to me about living in Australia. "Isn't that a socialist country?? Oh my.." etc. I almost thought of pretending that I really did live like a poor third worlder just for kicks. I get it, cold-war educational fallout and communism bad, socialism that direction so also bad, etc. Still surprising though.

The point I was trying to make is that the EU allows nations with weaker GDP to effectively leech off nations with stronger GDP at the expense of the latter's taxpayers/economy. Coupled with economic devolution to Brussels, a preventative measure to stem dissent and prevent reform, and it's frankly not fair.

The only right train of thought is my, or the super-state's approved train of thought. Is it me or does this sound sinister if not rather Orwellian?

Quoted for truth. Not much I can really add here. It does make me laugh when Spaniards and Greeks in particular protest in the streets against German policy when said policy is keeping their own house of burning cards up.

The Cold War saw indoctrination on an unprecedented scale across all levels of American society so this result is not really surprising. Despite this I do believe that this indoctrination will wear off but at the same time socialism will not work in America, it just won't.

I have very little tolerance and patience of socialism but I have to concede that, at certain points in history, it has helped. The best example I can think of off the top of my head is the foundation of the National Health Service in the UK in 1948. It was formed in the wake of the Second World War to provide support to families devastated by the bombings of British cities in the war and it was a noble cause... for it's time. These days however I'm more inclined to believe that the cause was borne more out of self-interest for the political and upper class than it was out of socialist idealism. These classes were terrified that a middle and lower class that remained downtrodden after wartime was very vulnerable to communist influence akin to the Bolshevik uprising.

This is one of those things the EU and US have in common. States with strong GDP paying for not only their needs but subsiding programs in states with weaker economies.


Same here. It's ironic really. Like the aforementioned, residents living in states benefiting from the economies of stronger states wish that they would not only fail but also seek to end the federal programs that bring their states said subsidies.

Sorry bro but fascists prey on ignorance and fear. People need to be educated to not fall into these parties grasp.

We're not talking of conservative vs progressive here, no one cares. We're talking of right extremists. But if you vote UKIP I guess this whole thread will fall on deaf ears.

Assumption is the mother of all *** ups my friend.

Some people might have already discerned this from the cut of my previous posts in P&R but I am a disenfranchised conservative (UK conservative) with little inclination of supporting far right groups. As far as far right groups go UKIP (United Kingdom Independence Party) is nowhere near the lunatic fringe, that honor goes to the BNP (British National Party) and the EDL (English Defense League). I have voted conservative since I was able to vote and follow the practice of my head ruling my heart.

Far left extremism presents a much bigger threat to Europe than the actions of knuckle-draggers in the streets do.

Comrade, if you continue to disagree with the party line then we will be forced to re-educate you, for your own good.

Good thing communist parties are worthless across all Europe as far as I'm aware.

If you stopped being scared of the soviets for a moment you'll notice I didn't say people should be indoctrinated to become commies, but that they should be educated to keep away from right wing extremists.
I repeat that I don't care whether you're conservative or not.

But in hindsight it's funny that I said "bro".

By the way I was not assuming about your voting preference, that wasn't how I intended to convey what I said. It was rather a prehemptive communication that if you vote extreme right the whole conversation is somewhat pointless.

I wish I could provide an informed opinion about the whole Brexit situation but I can't and your average member of the public, Ruaumoko included, won't be able to as we haven't been told anything.

There is a lot of scaremongering going on, if we leave the EU then millions of jobs will be at risk, if we stay in then Turkish migrants will flood to the UK and put us at risk, both sides argue we'd be safer from terrorist attacks for different reasons.

Then you have pro-Brexit Tories saying they want to do it so they can cut workers rights, currently guaranteed by EU law, rumours that the pro-Remain Tories are just supporting it to push through TTIP (which is terrible).

But on an unrelated point...
In a nation where benefits are being cut, taxes cut for the rich, food bank usage rising, income disparity between the richest and the poorest widening, all the while, the massive tax avoidance scandal has become public.

So maybe we could do with a bit of socialism.

Similarly I could say I have little to no tolerance of fascism, which the Conservative government is quickly becoming.

Seriously, can you not see the danger of forcing an ideology onto people?

You shouldn't force left-wing propaganda onto people "for the sake of keeping away from right wing extremists." You should show your ideology's merits, and if people don't agree with you, so be it.

But you shouldn't "re-educate" people into your beliefs because you don't agree with the other side. Otherwise, I could say we should re-educate people to keep away from left wing extremists (socialists and communists, so to say).

Don't start a holy war of politics because you don't like the message people are saying that you don't agree with. Either present your side of the argument or shut the *** up.

Seha means that educating them will prevent (or reduce the prevalence of), not tell them to keep qway from the boogyman.

(I hate to go Godwin here, but....) Isn't that the excuse Nazis used in 1930s to 1945?

Could you be more specific?

Don't tell me you don't know your history....

Nazi Propaganda

Basically, it's "reeducating" people to believing that a certain group of people (Germans, Aryans) are right and everyone else (Jews, Gypsies, foreigners, pretty much everyone not in the first group) are wrong....which is what Seha is saying should happen today.

What's next? Creating two classes of citizens, those who are liberals are first class and everyone else is second class?

That's a pretty standard belief in all progressive ideologies. The actual truth isn't important only the political truth. Hate-facts and bio-truths are to be discarded in favor of politically convenient new-facts. If something previously accepted becomes no longer politically convenient then it's written out of existence and thus never existed in the first place to be inconvenient. Anyone who disagrees is to be re-educated, by force in "extreme" cases, into thinking properly. If there is sufficient numbers of those who need this special re-education, then you make a special location for them where they can be separated from all outside distractions and made safe by nice uniformed guards.


They already have two class's. The first is the political leadership, the ones working for administration of the Democratic People's Republic are the first and to ensure they can get optimum production they are afforded all the conveniences possible. The second is everyone else, working state authorized jobs at state sanctioned wages to purchase state approved and rationed goods and services. This group gets whatever the first doesn't need and any dissent or questions are met with the above mentioned political re-education to ensure right-think.

It would make a fine joke, if it wasn't so damn true.