So You Wanna Tank On PUP?

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So you wanna tank on PUP?
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 Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia
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By Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia 2015-11-10 16:20:47
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So much new ***to slog through. Bleh.

New armor in Reisenjima looks like it's going to be good, but sweet jesus is it going to be time consuming... Probably not going to replace current tanking armor options(thankfully), but it looks like it's going to kick the ***out of every other pet focused set. Nuking sets have large amounts of INT, MAB and M.Acc, TP sets seem to have stp, haste, acc/atk in spades. It's honestly just sorta daunting at this point. The NMs are no walk in the park either.

From a tanking standpoint, the extra enmity is very noticeable. And you can evidently use curing waltz on Automatons now. Not sure if it's a bug or what, but it's there.

JP wise there isn't anything worthwhile. Grind up to 1200 and stop, get the rest from just playing.
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By darthmaull 2015-11-10 18:23:59
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Seeing that I'm not on yet, still downloading files, I was wondering due to the new changes, do we still need to use the SS/Harli auto for endgame tanking now? Wouldn't Valor/Valor now be the proper endgame tank and doesn't it get more -DT through stout then SS/Harli? Also at 1200 jp is it possible to do AP4 and AP3 and a Barrier Module to help with shield blocking?
 Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia
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By Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia 2015-11-10 21:16:06
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darthmaull said: »
Seeing that I'm not on yet, still downloading files, I was wondering due to the new changes, do we still need to use the SS/Harli auto for endgame tanking now? Wouldn't Valor/Valor now be the proper endgame tank and doesn't it get more -DT through stout then SS/Harli? Also at 1200 jp is it possible to do AP4 and AP3 and a Barrier Module to help with shield blocking?

I've played with Barrier Module in my tank setup before. Basically, it doesn't help with lowering magic damage, so it's not worthwhile. Galvanizer is usually the better choice.

As for frames, you can use SS/Valor just fine(Or VE/VE if you don't have 1200jp) so long as magic damage isn't a concern. Shell V is just too awesome a force of mitigation to pass up. But, ya know, do you. Figure out how to make it work.

Unrelated, but the enmity boost to strobes is absolutely bonkers. Tsukushi was having no problems holding hate against constant 40k mbs against 127ish mobs just using provoke.
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 Bahamut.Badstreak
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By Bahamut.Badstreak 2015-11-12 12:30:07
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Emnity is rock solid from puppets now, especially if you throw in the flash bulb too.

I've started using ANY auto as main tank for CP parties or when soloing. Even a stormwaker or sharpshot with flash or provoke attachments offers a huge damage mitigation to a party. May stop using Apururu since heavy curing no longer needed.
 Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia
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By Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia 2015-11-12 14:25:13
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Verda said: »
Wanna team up for vir'ava sometime badstreak? Alot of people in blamemochi still want a clear and the use august thing doesn't really let you have more than 5 ppl in party, so getting ppl without the right jobs clears pretty annoying. I'm sure an automaton can tank it np, and won't care about charm.

Can confirm, Auto tanks that thing with no problems.
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 Bahamut.Badstreak
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By Bahamut.Badstreak 2015-11-12 15:18:40
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I would recommend you get both Bennett and I to tank it. He has 1200 JP while I have better gear.

I've gotten about 100 JP since the campaign started and I'm hoping to be close to 1200 by the end of it.

I do need the clear, and the Arean Body would be nice too LOL.
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By darthmaull 2015-11-12 21:14:50
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Since I haven't seen it here I'll mention it first. Pup can now cure its own auto. At first I thought it was a bug but after testing it a little I now believe it's working as intended. No other spell can be cast. No protect. No shell. No regen. And no one other then the master can cure the auto. With our limited mp pool and the high amounts of hp the tanking autos have, this will barely do much. I really wish we could protect and shell them.

Edit: Tried casting cure on the auto after I switched to /rdm but cure didn't take effect. Need more testing.
Ok I went and switched subs to /dnc and curing waltz works. As far as the npc curing the auto, I haven't seen it yet.

Edit2: After further tests I guess the emergency update changed it from cures to just curing waltz. I've tried /sch, /rdm and /Pld. None of the cures work on the auto like they were right after the nov update but /dnc still does.
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By Elizabet 2015-11-12 21:19:32
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darthmaull said: »
Since I haven't seen it here I'll mention it first. Pup can now cure its own auto.

Can your own summonned trust npc cure your puppet?
 Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia
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By Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia 2015-11-12 22:42:05
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darthmaull said: »
Since I haven't seen it here I'll mention it first. Pup can now cure its own auto. At first I thought it was a bug but after testing it a little I now believe it's working as intended. No other spell can be cast. No protect. No shell. No regen. And no one other then the master can cure the auto. With our limited mp pool and the high amounts of hp the tanking autos have, this will barely do much. I really wish we could protect and shell them.

Edit: Tried casting cure on the auto after I switched to /rdm but cure didn't take effect. Need more testing.
Ok I went and switched subs to /dnc and curing waltz works. As far as the npc curing the auto, I haven't seen it yet.

Edit2: After further tests I guess the emergency update changed it from cures to just curing waltz. I've tried /sch, /rdm and /Pld. None of the cures work on the auto like they were right after the nov update but /dnc still does.

I haven't brought it up because it's almost certainly a bug. And while it is somewhat useful, it's hard to get very good numbers out of waltzes /dnc. Maybe good for a slight boost, but I just don't see it contributing much. And chances are pretty good it won't be around all that long. Now if healing waltz works... That would be quite useful indeed.
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 Ragnarok.Flanteus
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By Ragnarok.Flanteus 2015-11-13 04:56:36
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Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia said: »
darthmaull said: »
Since I haven't seen it here I'll mention it first. Pup can now cure its own auto. At first I thought it was a bug but after testing it a little I now believe it's working as intended. No other spell can be cast. No protect. No shell. No regen. And no one other then the master can cure the auto. With our limited mp pool and the high amounts of hp the tanking autos have, this will barely do much. I really wish we could protect and shell them.

Edit: Tried casting cure on the auto after I switched to /rdm but cure didn't take effect. Need more testing.
Ok I went and switched subs to /dnc and curing waltz works. As far as the npc curing the auto, I haven't seen it yet.

Edit2: After further tests I guess the emergency update changed it from cures to just curing waltz. I've tried /sch, /rdm and /Pld. None of the cures work on the auto like they were right after the nov update but /dnc still does.

I haven't brought it up because it's almost certainly a bug. And while it is somewhat useful, it's hard to get very good numbers out of waltzes /dnc. Maybe good for a slight boost, but I just don't see it contributing much. And chances are pretty good it won't be around all that long. Now if healing waltz works... That would be quite useful indeed.

SE should give PUP full benefit of /dnc IMHO, I mean it fit perfectly with idea of PUP doesn't it?

Not to mention it emphasize the idea of "fighting with your pet" play-style of PUP.
 Bahamut.Badstreak
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By Bahamut.Badstreak 2015-11-13 14:05:18
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I believe they fixed being able to target/cure pets as an emergency maintenance issue. Can anyone confirm?
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By Shiva.Rickis 2015-11-13 18:01:06
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was doing Omega D this morning with pup tank, put all the + enmity gear i have but still can't hold hate from the mythic blu....
 Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia
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By Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia 2015-11-13 19:57:21
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Shiva.Rickis said: »
was doing Omega D this morning with pup tank, put all the + enmity gear i have but still can't hold hate from the mythic blu....

Pile pitch is a hate reset, it's almost impossible for PUP to tank fights like that well since they will never be able to build significant amounts of VE. You pretty much have to play /blu and ventriloquy hate to your automaton after every pile pitch to hold hate.
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By Shiva.Rickis 2015-11-13 20:22:10
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Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia said: »
Shiva.Rickis said: »
was doing Omega D this morning with pup tank, put all the + enmity gear i have but still can't hold hate from the mythic blu....

Pile pitch is a hate reset, it's almost impossible for PUP to tank fights like that well since they will never be able to build significant amounts of VE. You pretty much have to play /blu and ventriloquy hate to your automaton after every pile pitch to hold hate.

not only when it is Pile pitch, but when it is from the start, when the mythic blu start doing dmg, Lobo can't hold it....
i am wondering what goes wrong...
 Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia
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By Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia 2015-11-14 10:08:52
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Shiva.Rickis said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia said: »
Shiva.Rickis said: »
was doing Omega D this morning with pup tank, put all the + enmity gear i have but still can't hold hate from the mythic blu....

Pile pitch is a hate reset, it's almost impossible for PUP to tank fights like that well since they will never be able to build significant amounts of VE. You pretty much have to play /blu and ventriloquy hate to your automaton after every pile pitch to hold hate.

not only when it is Pile pitch, but when it is from the start, when the mythic blu start doing dmg, Lobo can't hold it....
i am wondering what goes wrong...

What is your setup party wise, attachments and gear?
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By Shiva.Rickis 2015-11-14 18:18:54
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Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia said: »
Shiva.Rickis said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia said: »
Shiva.Rickis said: »
was doing Omega D this morning with pup tank, put all the + enmity gear i have but still can't hold hate from the mythic blu....

Pile pitch is a hate reset, it's almost impossible for PUP to tank fights like that well since they will never be able to build significant amounts of VE. You pretty much have to play /blu and ventriloquy hate to your automaton after every pile pitch to hold hate.

not only when it is Pile pitch, but when it is from the start, when the mythic blu start doing dmg, Lobo can't hold it....
i am wondering what goes wrong...

What is your setup party wise, attachments and gear?

on me:
Denouements
Anwig Salade
Taoen tabard - -4DT +acc DA aug
Rao Kote
Taeon Tights - -3DT hatse DA aug
Taeon boots - -4DT haste DA aug
Rimeice Earring
Domesicator's earring
Thurandaut Ring
Overbearing Ring
Others are just normal thing

Attachment:
Storb I+II
Optic fiber
Inhibitor II
Auto Repair 4
Turbo Charge 1+2
Stabilizer 3
AP 1+4
Barrier module II

Manuver fire fire light

party setup:
Mythic blu
Pup (me)
pld (not voking, just flash in case of hate reset)
geo
whm
trust

when the blu start SC-ing himself, lobo lose hate on him.
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By darthmaull 2015-11-17 09:30:07
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I finally hit 1200 two days ago and I have to say there is a major difference in what I could tank pre 1200 compared to now. Tru you have been a major help and inspiration and I thank you.

As far as the above poster, I see that you aren't 1200 jp yet. Try taking off optic fiber and use flashbulb instead. Also tell your party to not attack the mob until your auto has at least 1 voke in. Also try to make that first voke a fire, fire, light voke. That should be alot of hate right off the bat and try to keep that up during the fight. It should work.

For me I tested my new tanking power against Shiva prime v2 on VD. Prior to 1200 I could only do normal. And even then I couldn't really keep my auto alive the entire fight. The VD test was impressive. I never got below 75% once my auto casted Shellra V on itself.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia 2015-11-17 12:57:09
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darthmaull said: »
I finally hit 1200 two days ago and I have to say there is a major difference in what I could tank pre 1200 compared to now. Tru you have been a major help and inspiration and I thank you.

As far as the above poster, I see that you aren't 1200 jp yet. Try taking off optic fiber and use flashbulb instead. Also tell your party to not attack the mob until your auto has at least 1 voke in. Also try to make that first voke a fire, fire, light voke. That should be alot of hate right off the bat and try to keep that up during the fight. It should work.

For me I tested my new tanking power against Shiva prime v2 on VD. Prior to 1200 I could only do normal. And even then I couldn't really keep my auto alive the entire fight. The VD test was impressive. I never got below 75% once my auto casted Shellra V on itself.

For some reason I thought I had already replied to Rickis. I guess not.

I wouldn't remove Optic fiber for Flashbulb, personally. I would just use a lower tier of ARK to keep both Optic Fiber and Flashbulb on. I don't recall any major magical damage in that fight, so there isn't much of a reason to worry about dying. You ought to be able to handle the damage just fine using Soulsoother/Valoredge. Barrier module isn't doing much of anything for you, so drop that and stick the strongest armor plates you have one there. Galvanizer is always nice if you can fit it.

But if you have a PLD and a WHM, why are you tanking? You'll provide better utility to the group with a DD puppet. If you didn't have the WHM, sure. But if you do, there isn't any reason the PLD can't tank. You can do better damage than the PLD anyway.
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By Shiva.Rickis 2015-11-19 20:21:37
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Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia said: »
darthmaull said: »
I finally hit 1200 two days ago and I have to say there is a major difference in what I could tank pre 1200 compared to now. Tru you have been a major help and inspiration and I thank you.

As far as the above poster, I see that you aren't 1200 jp yet. Try taking off optic fiber and use flashbulb instead. Also tell your party to not attack the mob until your auto has at least 1 voke in. Also try to make that first voke a fire, fire, light voke. That should be alot of hate right off the bat and try to keep that up during the fight. It should work.

For me I tested my new tanking power against Shiva prime v2 on VD. Prior to 1200 I could only do normal. And even then I couldn't really keep my auto alive the entire fight. The VD test was impressive. I never got below 75% once my auto casted Shellra V on itself.

For some reason I thought I had already replied to Rickis. I guess not.

I wouldn't remove Optic fiber for Flashbulb, personally. I would just use a lower tier of ARK to keep both Optic Fiber and Flashbulb on. I don't recall any major magical damage in that fight, so there isn't much of a reason to worry about dying. You ought to be able to handle the damage just fine using Soulsoother/Valoredge. Barrier module isn't doing much of anything for you, so drop that and stick the strongest armor plates you have one there. Galvanizer is always nice if you can fit it.

But if you have a PLD and a WHM, why are you tanking? You'll provide better utility to the group with a DD puppet. If you didn't have the WHM, sure. But if you do, there isn't any reason the PLD can't tank. You can do better damage than the PLD anyway.

Thanks Tru, I'll try again with my folks. just managed to jp 550, still ways to go :)
the reason for using pup tanking was just a test to see how good it could hold the boss, the PLD did nothing beside it started resetting hate. But anyway the test was a failure as omega start turning to the mythic blu after a few ws he did.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia 2015-11-20 06:56:20
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YouTube Video Placeholder


For anyone that has tried him before, Neak likes the Chainspell Meteor. Know who doesn't give a damn about Chainspell Meteor? Me. I don't give a damn. This is a REALLY good fight for PUP to tank. Meteor only hits the target's party, so by throwing the Puppetmaster into their own party, you essentially can ignore the worst part of this NM.

The video above is the first time I fought him. I didn't do a lot of research before the fight, my LS mates just told me they wiped before due to Chainspell Meteor. So I figured that I could probably get more mitigation from SS/HQ. Well, evidently he likes to dispel frequently, so I am pretty sure I lost shell almost immediately. That being said, he just doesn't hit that hard. Chainspell Meteor does do some damage, but it's easily handled by your Healing Salve 1+2. I popped Benediction after the first one for the enmity, but looking back there wasn't any reason to do so.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Beaztmaster 2015-11-20 07:39:30
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Such a delicious thumbnail!
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By darthmaull 2015-11-20 11:25:09
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Tru can your LS post a video of you guys doing Seiryu? I would still like to see what it does even if Pup tanking is harder to do for it.
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By darthmaull 2015-11-29 22:56:49
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Ok I need some advice. It doesn't look possible for Pup to tank Selkit and Oryx is a pain. Selkit I can't keep hate and Oryx I've tried twice and was told the problem with him maybe Flashbulb. I removed it for the Selkit fight though. Do you have any advice on these 2 nm? Looks like there are some things that don't one shot us that we can't tank too well.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia 2015-11-30 12:48:43
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darthmaull said: »
Ok I need some advice. It doesn't look possible for Pup to tank Selkit and Oryx is a pain. Selkit I can't keep hate and Oryx I've tried twice and was told the problem with him maybe Flashbulb. I removed it for the Selkit fight though. Do you have any advice on these 2 nm? Looks like there are some things that don't one shot us that we can't tank too well.

On anything with Hate resets, you're going to have a super hard time tanking. Selkit spams his hate reset move like crazy, so it's a horrible fight for PUP to try and tank. You can use Ventriloquy *** to augment your hate management for that fight, but honestly I found it was easy enough to just kill him without a tank.

As for Oryx, I don't think I ever encountered the problem you speak of. It's possible he has some weird mechanics that cause him to change targets based on different actions, I dunno. We murder everything with Ready moves and Blood Pacts, so I have no idea what happens with normal players doing ***.
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By darthmaull 2015-11-30 18:20:47
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I do remember you saying that you don't use Flashbulb. I think that maybe the difference with Oryx. I may try him again without flashbulb and see if that's the problem.

I also have tried Gomberry twice and he is a pain as well with his one shot move. I forget the name at the moment.
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By Sylph.Jeanpaul 2015-11-30 22:03:21
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Question about Neak, is that Chainspell Meteor mechanic (targeting the party only) made possible by virtue of using a pet, or is that something any tank can take advantage of?

Also, regarding Oryx, I've heard that putting any negative GEO spell on him causes him to freak out and trample everyone with random hate. I've never tried using the negative GEO spells, so I can't say that's what does it, but I can say that I've never had issues with him regarding hate or his attacks.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia 2015-11-30 22:16:44
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Sylph.Jeanpaul said: »
Question about Neak, is that Chainspell Meteor mechanic (targeting the party only) made possible by virtue of using a pet, or is that something any tank can take advantage of?

Also, regarding Oryx, I've heard that putting any negative GEO spell on him causes him to freak out and trample everyone with random hate. I've never tried using the negative GEO spells, so I can't say that's what does it, but I can say that I've never had issues with him regarding hate or his attacks.

I was under the impression that it worked for any tank, but tonight we did it with a PLD tanking and me curing with the WHM puppet(worked pretty well, btw) and Meteor was hitting everyone, so I guess it is unique to PUP. Maybe some weird ***was happening, dunno.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia 2015-12-06 20:38:56
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I figure there are some other PUPs out there that want to solo Reisenjima mobs for gear/stones, so I thought I would share how I do them quickly.

Essentially you just want to keep your Puppet pumping out Bone Crushers for that sexy *** light. Pretty easy stuff, if you have Revitalizers you can go nonstop without worry. If not, you can do the NMs using your puppet to tank. You don't need all that much accuracy, I think I am nearly capped at 1100 accuracy before food.
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