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 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2015-09-15 14:03:58
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Bismarck.Ihina said: »
Ama's right when he says they're not all the same (Sanders and Trump, to name a few), but he's wrong if he thinks the Clintons are in a league of their own.
Bob McDonnell is the one in a league of his own.

He is too blithering an idiot to avoid jail. The rest at least manage that.
 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-09-16 09:02:34
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Bismarck.Ihina said: »
Ama's right when he says they're not all the same (Sanders and Trump, to name a few), but he's wrong if he thinks the Clintons are in a league of their own.

I always wonder what's going on in the minds of the average American whenever Bush or one of his surrogates comes on TV and brags about the 100m+ they've raised well over a year before the election.
Seeds of cognitive dissonance right here.
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By Garuda.Chanti 2015-09-16 19:47:39
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I would remind everyone that the clown show debate is currently live.

I will not watch it but I WILL read about it obsessively for hours tomorrow.

Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Bismarck.Ihina said: »
Ama's right when he says they're not all the same (Sanders and Trump, to name a few), but he's wrong if he thinks the Clintons are in a league of their own.

I always wonder what's going on in the minds of the average American whenever Bush or one of his surrogates comes on TV and brags about the 100m+ they've raised well over a year before the election.
Seeds of cognitive dissonance right here.
SEEDS? Try buckets, hogsheads, or barrels.
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-09-17 19:44:41
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It's time for DonaldCare!

Quote:
California — Aboard the USS Iowa in Southern California, 2016 GOP frontrunner billionaire Donald Trump told Breitbart News that his replacement for Obamacare—what he dubbed “DonaldCare” on Monday evening in Dallas—is going to be “absolutely great.”

“We’re not going to have the false lines,” Trump said as he grabbed this reporter’s shirt to—completely unsolicited—sign his name on this reporter’s shoulder with the black sharpie he was carrying around.

“We’re going to have privatization,” Trump continued. “It’s going to end up being absolutely great.”

When asked if his plan is the cure for Obamacare, Trump said he doesn’t want to fix Obamacare.

“We’re going to get rid of Obamacare,” Trump told Breitbart News as he was walking off the battleship after a raucous speech to Veterans for a Strong America—which just endorsed his candidacy for the White House—as a couple hundred protesters screamed “Dump The Trump” just ashore from the mighty ship.

“We’re going to something really spectacular with that [healthcare], with immigration, with the armed forces,” Trump said.

During his speech, Trump noted he has several major detailed policy plans forthcoming. He’s already published his detailed immigration reform plan—the only candidate to do so—and is working on a tax plan, healthcare plan, veterans care, and military plan. On stage, he detailed how if he’s elected president he’d ensure veterans are treated better than illegal aliens—they’re currently not, he said—and how he’d build a military so big that America’s enemies wouldn’t dare pick a fight with this country.

When asked about the protesters outside, Trump said he didn’t even notice them.

“You know, I honestly didn’t even see them,” Trump said. “I thought they were on our side.”

Trump will, along with 10 other GOP candidates, appear on the debate stage in Simi Valley, California, just north of San Pedro here on Wednesday evening. He’s currently the 2016 GOP frontrunner, as his biggest rival former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush has virtually collapsed on the campaign trail in recent polling.
Exclusive — Donald Trump: Free Market ‘Donaldcare’ Will Replace Obamacare After Its Repeal

(Only source I could find during a quick search that uses the name DonaldCare)
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By Jetackuu 2015-09-18 09:50:57
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Either he's outright delusional or just entirely pandering to those who are. It's pathetic either way.

I had to listen to part of him arguing with Bill O'Reilly the other day at work because somebody was listening to their "discussion" really loud, and I just wanted to smack my head into the wall.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-09-18 10:04:50
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Jetackuu said: »
Either he's outright delusional or just entirely pandering to those who are.
My money is on pandering, since that's all he has been doing.
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By Sylph.Safiyyah 2015-09-22 13:42:55
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http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/20/politics/carly-fiorina-donald-trump-republican-2016-poll/index.html

So Trump is down 8%. This is, as far as I know, the first time he's trended downwards in the polls. Carson is also down 5%, into third place, after Carly Fiorina.

My money now is on Rubio. Trump appeared very uninformed and Fiorina was able to fluster him, making him back down for the first time in this presidential race. Carson had a reasoned and thoughtful approach on foreign policy. He's now unelectable and "weak". Bush is a disaster. Rubio can outlast this field, I think. He's young enough, Latino, and he can present reasonably even though he's still pretty crazy with his policy positions.

I don't think Fiorina has staying power. I think she has less than Trump, honestly. The GOP is not ready for a woman to represent them in the national election. And her record at HP, which she is running on, is abysmal. Trump didn't communicate that effectively in the last debate but ultimately I think he will.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-09-22 14:50:59
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Sylph.Safiyyah said: »
He's young enough, Latino, and he can present reasonably even though he's still pretty crazy with his policy positions.
So, we now have evidence that one of the qualifiers of eligibility, according to die-hard liberals, is race.

Never mind any other qualifiers such as budgets, plans, and positions. Nope, got to be the color of their skin.

And then they decry racism when that is pointed out....
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By Drama Torama 2015-09-22 15:28:38
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Sylph.Safiyyah said: »
He's young enough, Latino, and he can present reasonably even though he's still pretty crazy with his policy positions.
So, we now have evidence that one of the qualifiers of eligibility, according to die-hard liberals, is race.

Never mind any other qualifiers such as budgets, plans, and positions. Nope, got to be the color of their skin.

And then they decry racism when that is pointed out....

To be fair, he's using that as a point of electability, not eligibility. Demographic appeal matters, whether or not one thinks it should.
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By Jetackuu 2015-09-22 15:46:14
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I don't care what color a guy is, unless he's gold/purple, then I'd have to consider.
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By Sylph.Safiyyah 2015-09-22 15:54:14
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Sylph.Safiyyah said: »
He's young enough, Latino, and he can present reasonably even though he's still pretty crazy with his policy positions.
So, we now have evidence that one of the qualifiers of eligibility, according to die-hard liberals, is race.

Never mind any other qualifiers such as budgets, plans, and positions. Nope, got to be the color of their skin.

And then they decry racism when that is pointed out....

Rooks already pointed this out (thanks man!) but it's not a point of eligibility but rather demographic appeal. There's got to be someone at the RNC who sees the wisdom of trying not to lose 3/4 of the Latino vote, maybe. I'm not even sure that Rubio could muster much Latino support but he's better there than Trump, or Bush, who is a shameless panderer.
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2015-09-22 16:31:52
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Sylph.Safiyyah said: »
He's young enough, Latino, and he can present reasonably even though he's still pretty crazy with his policy positions.
So, we now have evidence that one of the qualifiers of eligibility, according to die-hard liberals, is race.

Never mind any other qualifiers such as budgets, plans, and positions. Nope, got to be the color of their skin.

And then they decry racism when that is pointed out....

So Jeb Bush is your die-hard liberal? Because he's on the record about the importance of the Hispanic vote to the GOP, his own fluent Spanish and his outrage at Trump essentially undoing the party progress towards being palatable to Hispanics.

And yes, a Latino candidate is going to have the same effect as a Black one did in '08 - energize a base.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-09-22 16:43:43
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Drama Torama said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Sylph.Safiyyah said: »
He's young enough, Latino, and he can present reasonably even though he's still pretty crazy with his policy positions.
So, we now have evidence that one of the qualifiers of eligibility, according to die-hard liberals, is race.

Never mind any other qualifiers such as budgets, plans, and positions. Nope, got to be the color of their skin.

And then they decry racism when that is pointed out....

To be fair, he's using that as a point of electability, not eligibility. Demographic appeal matters, whether or not one thinks it should.
Why again, are we using the color of one's skin as a deciding factor for either eligibility or electability? Whatever happened to the good old days of electing a person based on what they would bring to the country?
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2015-09-22 16:52:09
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Those days probably never existed.
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-09-22 16:55:20
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They existed up until November 4th, 2008.
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2015-09-22 16:58:38
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Yes, the concept of electability was born on that day.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-09-22 17:03:07
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Pleebo, you are making as much sense as Spicy. Which isn't saying much.
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By Garuda.Chanti 2015-09-22 17:04:37
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Let's see, we elected as President a well spoken one term senator, with an strong appeal to one ethnic voting block.

It worked so well we should do it again?

Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Those days probably never existed.
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
They existed up until November 4th, 2008.
I'm sorry, they existed last in the 1960 election. The man elected in that contest so scared the people who really rule America that he was assassinated.
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2015-09-22 17:06:43
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I don't know who that is, but ok.
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2015-09-22 17:45:40
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Drama Torama said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Sylph.Safiyyah said: »
He's young enough, Latino, and he can present reasonably even though he's still pretty crazy with his policy positions.
So, we now have evidence that one of the qualifiers of eligibility, according to die-hard liberals, is race.

Never mind any other qualifiers such as budgets, plans, and positions. Nope, got to be the color of their skin.

And then they decry racism when that is pointed out....

To be fair, he's using that as a point of electability, not eligibility. Demographic appeal matters, whether or not one thinks it should.
Why again, are we using the color of one's skin as a deciding factor for either eligibility or electability? Whatever happened to the good old days of electing a person based on what they would bring to the country?

You mean the good old days of endless white guys, cmon.
 Sylph.Safiyyah
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By Sylph.Safiyyah 2015-09-22 21:47:01
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
They existed up until November 4th, 2008.

I think you're unhinged. I'm trying to parse this in a way that doesn't seem totally unbalanced and failing.

Before 11-4-2008 there were only people of a certain race who were elected to be president. In fact, there were only people of a certain race who were run in the general election by the major political parties. If anything that date marks when maybe, just maybe, the diminishing of these things determine eligibility or electability.
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By Jassik 2015-09-22 22:54:39
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Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
I don't know who that is, but ok.

She's talking about JFK.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-09-23 08:49:20
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Sylph.Safiyyah said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
They existed up until November 4th, 2008.

I think you're unhinged. I'm trying to parse this in a way that doesn't seem totally unbalanced and failing.

Before 11-4-2008 there were only people of a certain race who were elected to be president. In fact, there were only people of a certain race who were run in the general election by the major political parties. If anything that date marks when maybe, just maybe, the diminishing of these things determine eligibility or electability.
Before Obama was nominated, candidates were elected by issue.

Then Obama came and all people could see is the color of his skin. Couldn't hear what he said, all they cared about was electing the first black president because "they aren't racist!"
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By Drama Torama 2015-09-23 08:56:44
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Before Obama was nominated, candidates were elected by issue.

Then Obama came and all people could see is the color of his skin. Couldn't hear what he said, all they cared about was electing the first black president because "they aren't racist!"

Demographic appeal couldn't factor in to Presidential races before because literally everyone was a white male. It certainly factored into local races, though! (And let's not discount the effect youth and appearance have, which is a different axis on the same graph. See Kennedy vs. Nixon's debates.)

As for Obama, sure, there was some "God, let's prove we aren't a nation of racists" involved, but the vote from the black community was also a matter of "he is like me, and therefore more likely to have my interests and perspective in mind". I mean, that's basic sociology. It's essentially a more clearly delineated version of "that candidate seems like someone I could have a beer with", which is a pretty common trope.

In an idealized world, yes, we'd base it all purely on positions, but realistically speaking, that's not going to happen (not for a long time, anyway). It only ever looked at that way with Presidential races because demographics could not factor in.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-09-23 09:05:59
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Drama Torama said: »
In an idealized world, yes, we'd base it all purely on positions, but realistically speaking, that's not going to happen (not for a long time, anyway). It only ever looked at that way with Presidential races because demographics could not factor in.
It was happening for a very long time before Obama became president.

I'm not racist at all, I didn't vote for Obama because I think he is an idiot and his ideas are the worst for this nation (and I haven't been proven wrong at all).

When there were nothing but old white guys running for president, there was no race demographics involved in a person's choice. People didn't choose to vote for Clinton in 1992 because he was an old white guy or because they didn't want Bush again because he was an old white guy. Nor Reagan, nor Carter, nor Kennedy, nor Roosevelt, etc etc.

There were too many people out there who voted for Obama not because of the issues at hand, but because of the color of one's skin. Like there will be too many people out there who would vote for Carson for the same reason, or Rubio. Hell, there would be people voting for Clinton and/or Fiorina because of the biological package they were given.

That is not right. 100% not right. And that's what liberals on this website proclaimed to be a qualifier for eligibility/electablility, which is also 100% not right.

If, for some reason, I vote for Carson or Rubio, it will not be because of the color of their skin.
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By Drama Torama 2015-09-23 09:18:23
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Kennedy

No, they voted for Kennedy because he was a young white guy. Do you really not know the bit about the Kennedy/Nixon debates?
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-09-23 09:24:30
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Drama Torama said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Kennedy

No, they voted for Kennedy because he was a young white guy. Do you really not know the bit about the Kennedy/Nixon debates?
Sorry, but he was still white. Race did not play a part of people's decision. Nor his sex.
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By Drama Torama 2015-09-23 09:35:40
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Sorry, but he was still white. Race did not play a part of people's decision. Nor his sex.

You are missing the point entirely. Race, sex, age, appearance - these are all just different axes on the same graph. You can talk all day about what people should do, but the concept of electability is about what people will do, and that's the data point that matters, if you want to win elections.

The concept that people have used something beyond a list of policy points to pick a candidate is as old as elections themselves. I don't know why you're convinced otherwise. The only thing Obama added to the mix was race, for that specific office - it'd certainly been a factor elsewhere, for years and years and years.
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-09-23 09:37:19
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
I think he is an idiot
I think you are way too biased to make any real assessment about this president, as proven by this post. Barack Obama is most certainly not stupid.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-09-23 09:54:34
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Drama Torama said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Sorry, but he was still white. Race did not play a part of people's decision. Nor his sex.

You are missing the point entirely. Race, sex, age, appearance - these are all just different axes on the same graph. You can talk all day about what people should do, but the concept of electability is about what people will do, and that's the data point that matters, if you want to win elections.

The concept that people have used something beyond a list of policy points to pick a candidate is as old as elections themselves. I don't know why you're convinced otherwise. The only thing Obama added to the mix was race, for that specific office - it'd certainly been a factor elsewhere, for years and years and years.
It's still wrong and it shows how shallow that person is. Not the candidate, but the voter. It's sad when we have so many shallow people in this country....
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