Are Men Going Their Own Way? (MGTOW)

Unhealthy means unhealthy. A relationship that is detrimental to either or both parties. Relationships can be unhealthy for many reasons: dependency, co-dependency, infidelity, incompatibility, proximity to any of the above, familial differences, cultural differences, hardships, etc. Keep in mind, people also make bad decisions and marry the wrong people or situations change and people change along with them.

I am not going to throw jabs about you equating unhealthy with abusive or claim that you're projecting personal experiences onto the subject, so please don't assume that anything I say in support of women is automatically condemning men. It is possible that divorce proceedings are unfair without women systematically oppressing men or using them.

I suppose it does, but when people refer to their marriages as being unhealthy I'm sure I'm not alone in first going to situations of abuse.

We aren't talking about women oppressing men (or at least I wasn't) we're talking about marriage (and divorce) being a bad deal for men. Any other mis-characterization from Flav, Ramy or anyone else of my view point is just that.

...wait, did we just agree on something?

Sorta, but we're in agreement more often than you realize, you just don't want to see it.

Well, at least you asking questions instead of just assuming you already know the answers. No, I don't assume women are dishonest. But I certainly do hold that opinion about some of my exs.


I do however think that systems without checks lend themselves to abuse. I would have the same concern if the sex roles were reversed and men overwhelmingly got default custody.

And you get the strawman crown this round.

"Marriage is a bad deal for men" now apparently warrants the response:

'Go *** a sheep you mysoginist.'

I mean I can't even imagine the mental gymnastics you must perform to change what I said into that.

It always comes down to the bestiality!

Fringe?
A speech given at the UN literally branded as "HEforSHE" is fringe?... why the *** isn't it "SHEforHE"?
Oh that's right because the Feminazis would be up in arms and coming out the woodwork screaming that's the patriarchy oppressing them.

Explain to me why a woman can earn as much as her husband but can smooch off him in alimony and child support when she initiates the divorce? Someone said women were twice as likely to initiate the divorce, its actually 3x.
Also, 70% of children raised by single mothers end up either abused or criminals as opposed to 7% of children raised by single fathers.
Also, MGTOW isn't something that is reserved to the dungeons of the internet either. There are a few celeb Males who are MGTOW, Leonardo Dicaprio among them. Joe Rogan is a long time MGTOW and MRA.
What is fringe to you? Is this fringe to you? seems pretty mainstream to me

wat

That wasn't what I said at all. I could go into a long speech about the many ways that marriage is a bad idea (for everyone), but your attention span doesn't handle such things when you can't grasp that what I was saying was, "You sure don't seem to want to have anything to do with women."

I mean, you've stated you have no plans for marriage. You apparently have no esteem for the female creature whenever the issue of treatment under the law is brought up. While there's some justification for that, you've been dragging it into a far extreme. Someone debating with you shouldn't have to ask, "Do you think all women are dishonest, manipulative ***?" That's a sign that you're way over the deep end.

But that's where you live. So of course you'd interpret a commentary on your insanity in a completely tangential way.



But, hey, here's a crazy thought that you'll fail to fly up your flagpole: rather than talking about how women be ***, talk about going to the legislature and campaigning to change the out-dated, flawed, and deeply sexist laws concerning marriage and divorce.

And for the hat trick, maybe you should take a moment to consider that the Religious Right's obsession with gender norms and heteronormativity is at the heart of why divorce is bad for men when, had feminism been left to do what it intended before being hijacked by misandrist loonies, it would've been fixed 40+ years ago.

Wake me up when it's legal to marry sheep.

Haven't you been paying attention? They'll just take half your stuff in the divorce.

Don't be a misovinist now.

The last time I married a sheep, it stole all my stuff and went on the lam.

Hey now, hey now. Don't let it get your goat.

Making light of this turd of a thread? Ewe should all be ashamed of yourselves!

/finger wag

How dare you turn my quip into a pun chain...

So, when you mentioned an alternative to women being sheep, it was apparently a total tangent for me to think you were saying sheep were an alternative to women.

Gotcha.

Again my point is marriage is a raw deal for men (and has gotten so via feminism). Apparently you can only hear "women be ***". As for the religious right ruining marriage, that's entirely false. Radical feminism has ruined it.

If you're bad at picking a mate, it can be. It doesn't have to be, assuming you're actually selective and pick the right person. Marriage can be a deeply-rewarding venture that lasts a lifetime.

Then again, everything is a zero sum game to you and you're convinced that everything is about money and power and ownership of things. "Feels" or "emotional needs and fulfillments" have no place in your world. Just anger at not having enough "things", and at people daring to take away your "things".


No, via the "classic" American assignment of gender roles and assumptions made based on these views.

I'm glad you have so much faith in your wife. I hope she never decides she wants out. She'll have ample opportunity to "own" you if she does.

It's not really the "American" assignment of gender roles. I mean there isn't anything particularly unique about America in this regard is there?

Marriage a deeply rewarding venture. I stopped reading at that point !



Gender roles only matter to people that are "women's studies" majors. Most people in real life don't write or read dissertations about gender roles. And wake up saying you know what. Today I'm not going to be a stereotypical male/female.

Well, it's well-established in a lot of places thanks to a lot of factors. Religions and similar cultural influences ranking highly among those factors.

But given we're discussing American divorce law, I figured it wouldn't hurt to specify.


She makes more than I do anyhow, being that she's a scientist and I am...not. Not only does she make more than I do as it is, she could make more still if she chose to do so and take a job elsewhere, but she doesn't like being a slave to the job any more than I do. I'm more or less at my ceiling without shifting careers. But knowing my wife, even if she felt she wanted out, as long as I didn't do anything boneheaded -- cheating, similar levels of awful -- I can tell you for a fact it wouldn't be heated enough that she would want much more than to evenly split things.

But here's the thing: that's not going to happen. I can't rightly explain it, because I can't even explain to you how our relationship happened in the first place or works the way it does (on a "higher" level, that is. I can tell you how we literally ended up meeting/etc.). I frequently don't understand other couples. "Regular" couples don't make sense to me. At all.

I know. But it's you, so I'm neither suprised, nor offended. *places hand on your shuolder* I understand. It's okay, man. It's gonna be okay.


Roughly true. Most people don't think about them, though. They just do them. They're that deeply ingrained in most people.

Side topic: Is "women's studies minor" the "Asian studies minor" for the 2010s?

Funny how biology works like that.

One thing that science has taught me is that evolution is fast and takes you completely by surprise.

Look, if we're going to reference Pokemon (ugh), let's at least make it enjoyable to look at.

Ugh, reading you wax on about the feelz in your own marriage is almost gag inducing. You're probably taking big quaffs of your own flatulence whilst doing so.