The 6th Ministry's Secret: A Summoner's Guide (v2)

Thanks for that information friends.

The last time I played Capacity points where just introduced, so I've been out of touch for a while.

I'm assuming the Summoner JSE from Oboro is a good substitute for Melee Bps, for the time being?

I've been a SMN main my entire FFXI career (like most here Im assuming), I'm not going to stop playing it because I don't have a mythic (yet), Like a lot of you, I no longer have seemingly limitless time to play anymore, was just curious as to where it stood in the hierarchy of SMN gear, and if it was worth investing my time chasing down.

Love your new avatar Verda :)

Nirvana is pretty amazing and for most people swapping put the vana for a pet nuke stick will still produce the best nukes.

I also cannot stress enough how awesome the +2 pet level and -perp is. It opens up at least one extra slot of gear away from -perp Stat while still alowing for free pets with full time favor on.

The attk/accuracy alone increase from those extra 2 levels is almost like havING akamochi on all the time. But of course all stays are +10 and the west sone bits of Def and unknown magic acc and Eva buff

The pet stats from the w extra levels also enhances bps over and above the published +40 BP damage
I really love it

Thanks :D

Ok, now that I'm home I can check the numbers

@ilvl 119
+2 Avatar Level
HP +4
Acc. +74
Attk.+57
Eva. +44
Def +44

+10 to all stats and unknown level of magic acc and eva.

For reference Akamochi
Pet: HP +20
Vitality +3
Acc. +10% +75 cap
attk. +16% +75 cap

Is the Campestres's Cape magic damage augment literally "Magic Damage" (meh) stat or "Magic Attack Bonus" (delicious)?

Yes but it boosts lower base damage pacts, like thunderspark, quite a bit.

It's literally magic damage. I used my dye for more magic acc on my magic BP cape.

Thanks for the responses! I know my next cape.

Ultimately you probably want 4 capes for bloodpacts, but difference is so minimal you can still easily rationalize only 2. 2 each for phys and magic with the split being acc/macc vs atk/mdmg with the dye.

First piece would probably be a phys/atk piece.

Flaming crush as usual is a wildcard. Without extensively testing it, i would use a physical cape.

I use a magic attack cape for Flaming Crush as it is categorized as an MAB-based hybrid. I've had pleasing results at all levels of content.

I believe the mdmg would be weak for Flaming Crush. I'd imagine it would only be useful in cases where your avatar is beefed out to PDIF cap (if you can even reach that point on some bosses), but even then you can't go wrong with accuracy.

If magic accuracy has a critical role in Flaming Crush landing then that is probably still useful at the very least.

With my gear, I don't have magic accuracy issues. I'm just stating what I personally use and that I'm happy with the results.

I've also had the best luck with physical cape on Flaming Crush. I don't think the magic one would help much unless the magic hit is having magic accuracy issues (pretty rare).

I've thought about making a cape with phys acc/atk+20, and magic acc+10 for Flaming Crush. That might be the best hybrid. For now I'm using phys acc+20 atk+30 and it's very nice.

I have multiple capes like Frod mentioned previously but I don't know - I guess I just go with what has worked well for me. I'm closing Resolution skillchains for capped damage and damn near capped burst damage.

Having said that though, I tailor my fights accordingly and use specific foods based on what buffs I know I'll have or wont have. If I'm bursting primarily I'll use Grape Daifuku+1 for MAB boost but if it's higher-tiered content, I'll change over to Rolandberry+1 for Magic Accuracy.

Anyone know the caps of the stat rolls for Grioavolr? I rolled this and it seems pretty good, but wondering if it's still far off from perfect.

You'll have a hard time beating that roll but it's definitely not capped, caps are 10 bp dmg if fern, 40 magic acc and mab if pellucid and 20 to a pet stat if taupe. 8-9 bp dmg seems most without fern, 30-35 mab/macc w/o pellucid, and 15 pet stat without taupe. I've spent prob 5k stones and I think your aug is better than mine for raw damage. It's why I started working on a second one just for when magic acc not a huge concern, 18 magic acc isn't even terrible tho so it's a good roll. I should mention trying for capped anything is sort of like winning the lotto in this case. I am usually one of the last to admit defeat that way but yah... SE didn't really intend for us to be running around with capped augs on this stuff the chance of getting what you want all capped or even just something with everything capped is very, very, very small. Getting 2 stats capped is the most I'd set a realistic goal for.

After 80 ztacks of Fern Stones this is the best I've come up with so far. I haven't seen +10 dmg come up at all.

It's anecdotal, but it feels like the Blood Pact Dmg. is rarer on the Grioavolr than on Merlinic.

I'll probably leave my roll how it is for a while, as there's more important things to dump money into. Still unsure on Nirvana vs Grioavolr when it comes to debuffs, but it would take some extensive testing to come to a concrete conclusion I think.

Thanks for your input.

I haven't heard anything on macc testing on nirvana and i suspect there isn't any beyond whatever the int stat boost is, there hasn't been any indication that nirvana gives any magic skills.

Current best two offhand are grio and espiritus. Grio being 35+30+stat and espiritus being 15+30 and 15 skill.

I'd assume grio would need +17 macc augment minimum to beat espiritus, assuming 2skill=1macc. If its 1to1, you need 26+

This does not explain the substantial increase in various other stats (Attack, Accuracy, Defense, Evasion) when the base stats only increase by +10 with Nirvana. We have no reason to assume that it does not grant a Magic Accuracy bonus as well.

Not to mention, if it did not grant Magic Evasion or Magic Defense, then level 99 monster magic would still be quite potent against our Avatars, which we know is not the case.

Nirvana's magic accuracy gains can be tested, but with some difficulty. It would require finding a monster that resists our debuff Blood Pacts, but with some magic accuracy, no longer does. With consistent usage of the Blood Pact and slowly adding on Magic Accuracy via equipment, we would be able to pinpoint the gains from Nirvana (Summoning Skill too), and actively compare it against alternatives such as Espiritus and Grioavolr. This may just take quite some time to produce reliable data, depending on results and the monster chosen.

Testing is well and good, however there's not a grounds for hypothesis that nirvana would have more magic acc than a griovalr unless you know something I don't. I still encourage testing but I would also remind people that good science has root in good hypothesis, and I'm not seeing one here. Still more magic acc testing would be welcome but exhaustive. Leviathan's favor should be eludited too if someone gets around to it and imo would be the bigger thing to know as we don't really have ANY grounds to support nirvana has more magic acc than grio can. As far as we can tell it'd be about 90 magic acc vs 74. 90 > 74. The only chance nirvana has to win is if it has surprise super high magic accuracy which is a pretty bad assumption to go on or even speculate. If you want more grounds to justify not augmenting a magic acc grio for debuffs, no one is forcing you to do so. If you want more use out of your nirvana by doubling it as a magic acc staff, no one is going to try and ruin your fun. Do what you want it's a game you don't need our permission. But baseless arguing is a waste of time and space here imo so please, unless you have a grounds for hypothesis, or testing, then drop it. I'm updating the wiki entry too it's misleading and everyone here has pretty much agreed that at the least we don't know the answer, so the wiki claiming there is one is just strictly false.

I'm not saying it does or it doesn't. I'm just saying testing is required if we want a concrete conclusion, and Frod's suspecting that it grants minimal to none (purely only from INT), which I don't believe is true. We have more grounds to believe it grants some amount than none.


Assuming an absolutely perfect rolled Grioavolr, and assuming you can get 40 MACC on the augment, that would only be 35+40 = 75, correct? IF Nirvana gave +74 Magic Accuracy (we don't know how much it gives), then it would be extremely close and Grioavolr would only win if it rolled PERFECT, and by +1 magic accuracy. Even then, the Grioavolr would require +10 INT, if INT even affects the magic accuracy of the pacts. If it's MND for things like Slowga, then Nirvana still wins, because Grioavolr can't roll both stats, or even MND at all, yet Nirvana gives +10 to all stats.

But, we don't know how much Magic Accuracy Nirvana gives, hence why I believe a test would be in order to come to a definitive conclusion on the topic.

Grio has 35 avatar magic acc baked in, you can get 40 more augmented with 15 int on top of that is 90. So no you don't need a perfect roll just a good one, that was given, it still didn't justify the wiki stating nirvana is the best enfeebling staff because it's unlikely and unknown and unless it can be proven such claims shouldn't be made. Also nothing against you Crevox <3 I also know it wasn't you who put that on the wiki, and nothing against who did either but lets keep updates and claims being fact checked with high integrity or the resource itself suffers.

Would you still be able to roll +40 MACC with +15 INT? I believe the INT caps at +10 without a Taupe Stone, and wouldn't that cause the MACC to cap at 30? Even if it can, again, this is still a very high roll if INT is the driving force behind Magic Accuracy for debuff Blood Pacts.

Nirvana grants an implicit +10 INT and MND, so at absolute best Grioavolr would win by +6 Magic Accuracy, if all of the above is true, but again, we don't know the value on Nirvana's Magic Accuracy gain.


The wiki is not my concern in this matter.

Weapon augments cap at 15 and 20 rather than 10 and 15 like armor at least that I've always seen. I could be wrong but pretty sure if int or mnd is considered for magic accuracy depends on the spell rather than added together also. white magic school spells use mnd, dark uses int, but mnd is used for potency on both, we can't be totally sure that's how it works for debuff pacts but that's the assumption we're going on.

Nirvana is a good magic acc staff, and I wouldn't blame you if you didn't want to aug an grio just for magic acc. If you get lucky with a roll tho, might as well keep it and make another staff.

Then this would need to be proven out too, because Pet augments may be different in this regard, and I have not seen an augment over 10 from my Pellucid Stones. My testing is very limited, but getting concrete data on all of this would be important, as you have stated yourself:



INT affects the potency of both elemental debuffs (Burn, etc) and Blind.

https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/112776-Dev-Tracker-Findings-Posts-(NO-DISCUSSION)?p=6517315&viewfull=1#post6517315

Either way, I don't think Grioavolr can roll MND, giving it an implicit loss of Magic Accuracy on many pacts that are not Black Magic based.

I didn't keep a log of my augments, but I'm pretty sure it works like every other weapon in this regard going from memory, as you'll remember I think this conversation is a waste of time and effort. Also I updated some of my posts, hope you read what else I wrote.

That's all the input I have on this.

Alas, I believe discussing optimizing our abilities as Summoners with numbers and testing within the Summoner thread is an effort worth moving forward with, but if you think otherwise, then I will not hold anything against you for moving on.

I may take some time and test all of this sometime soon, the only difficulty is locating an appropriate test target. I'll be checking some monsters in Escha and the Gates to see if one is suitable for this purpose.

That feels like a goad to continue but I won't bite, as I've stated it's a waste of time and effort because it's speculation, not because of it's purpose. Indeed if you brought forth evidence that nirvana did have a ton of magic acc over our educated guesses, I'd be one of the first to commend and congratulate you.

This is speculation. Speculation that can cleared up through testing, or even screenshots of a Grioavolr with the high stats you have stated.

We don't need to speculate. We can work together to figure it out.