Also page 9, so let's party.
Minimum Wage
Minimum Wage
Hey, if I'm wrong, I'll admit it.
Also page 9, so let's party.
Also page 9, so let's party.
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Huh... what was the first damned response to this post? And 9 pages later, we come full circle.
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Bloodrose said: »
The restaurant business is hardly low on profits, and is one of the single leading industries for profits.
Employee overhead should never exceed 30% of all costs, considering the effective costs associated with the industry are broken down as Food Costs, Beverage, and then employee overhead, the latter being the lowest.
90% of the external factors, are business practices - location, marketing, reputation, etc. all of which are practices designed to bring in customers.
Beverage cost should never exceed 21%. A bottle of premium spirits will retail for about 25 dollars, but can produce about 250-300 dollars in sales. A successful business model can bring in 1400-2500 in sales a night. That's roughly the amount of money it costs to pay the monthly cost of renting a building. And that's during the first hour after opening the doors.
Food costs in a restaurant run upwards of 30-40% during optimum operating costs. The cost of employee overhead ends up being down around 10-15% if a restaurant is run correctly.
The average profit margin with in the US for bars and restaurants is actually pretty high. Average restaurant has 1-2 managers, and roughly 6 other employees, plus an owner. after all sales are conducted and everything is paid out, the average amount a successful bar will make is between 40k and 100k a month.
Also, the biggest reason people *** about gas going up, despite it only being 3-5% of their monthly cost, is because it affects other aspects that result in increased costs across the board. Not just for you, but for everyone.
Employee overhead should never exceed 30% of all costs, considering the effective costs associated with the industry are broken down as Food Costs, Beverage, and then employee overhead, the latter being the lowest.
90% of the external factors, are business practices - location, marketing, reputation, etc. all of which are practices designed to bring in customers.
Beverage cost should never exceed 21%. A bottle of premium spirits will retail for about 25 dollars, but can produce about 250-300 dollars in sales. A successful business model can bring in 1400-2500 in sales a night. That's roughly the amount of money it costs to pay the monthly cost of renting a building. And that's during the first hour after opening the doors.
Food costs in a restaurant run upwards of 30-40% during optimum operating costs. The cost of employee overhead ends up being down around 10-15% if a restaurant is run correctly.
The average profit margin with in the US for bars and restaurants is actually pretty high. Average restaurant has 1-2 managers, and roughly 6 other employees, plus an owner. after all sales are conducted and everything is paid out, the average amount a successful bar will make is between 40k and 100k a month.
Also, the biggest reason people *** about gas going up, despite it only being 3-5% of their monthly cost, is because it affects other aspects that result in increased costs across the board. Not just for you, but for everyone.
thought i would weigh in with actual figures from an actual business. my family owns a restaurant that has been in business over 40 years here in washington state. we do 50-60k in sales (sales, not profit) a month. we make a 10% profit.
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Whoa now, back off with that personal experience crap. This is a page about politics, so we're going to go with 3rd party numbers that best fit our side's narrative. Do you even P&R bro?
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the system is just messed up it is all about bringing in more money for the higher up's. They could care less about the little people.
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So far, the only information provided is amount of sales, number of years in business, and that your family business makes 10% profit every month (roughly 5-6K in profits, which is 60-72k a year)
There's no number on the size of the restaurant in terms of seating, employee overhead, food cost (includes waste and spoilage), number of employees, the market size, the market itself, the type of customers coming in, or any other hard number information, all you've really got is less than half-assed anecdotal information.
KN at least provided reasonable counter-points.
And a lot of his math in terms of breakdown was off. Many of the things he listed ended up being classified as primary one time costs.
Do you know the actual inner-workings and numbers of the family business, or just what's reported? (this is an honest question, don't need to go into specifics, can just say yes or no)
I do get that some markets are small enough that a 10% profit margin is considered good. But most markets would consider that a huge loss.
There's no number on the size of the restaurant in terms of seating, employee overhead, food cost (includes waste and spoilage), number of employees, the market size, the market itself, the type of customers coming in, or any other hard number information, all you've really got is less than half-assed anecdotal information.
KN at least provided reasonable counter-points.
And a lot of his math in terms of breakdown was off. Many of the things he listed ended up being classified as primary one time costs.
Do you know the actual inner-workings and numbers of the family business, or just what's reported? (this is an honest question, don't need to go into specifics, can just say yes or no)
I do get that some markets are small enough that a 10% profit margin is considered good. But most markets would consider that a huge loss.
i will have to talk with them tomorrow for some of those more specific questions as i don't know them off the top of my head. To give you an idea of #s you should be seeing:
Your text to link here...
and
Your text to link here...
so as you can see, 10% is doing well for our restaurant (and is probably why we've been in business for so long).
Your text to link here...
and
Your text to link here...
so as you can see, 10% is doing well for our restaurant (and is probably why we've been in business for so long).
I would argue that it's more than just the 10%.
Being in business more than 10+ years gives you a very marketable name to capitalize on.
Forbes talks about net profit, which is good, because it defines the kind of profit being looked at.
10% net profit over 10% gross profit is obviously going to be much better.
Knowing who the restaurant caters to on a daily basis, prime time sales numbers, and so forth all go into account.
Truthfully, I appreciate the back and forth on this, because my brother manages a restaurant that pulls in 2 million dollars in profits on a yearly basis (chain restaurant called Tony Roma's), and he keeps his food costs around 26%, employee cost (due to training 2 new people) around 32% or lower. The particular location he works at will do 14k dollars in sales on any given Saturday, some times more.
And yes, I get that a family owned and operated restaurant is a stark contrast to a chain, but the primary model is essentially the same.
I would also say it's not just looking at numbers either. You have to look at where the spending goes, and how the spending is managed.
Arguably, there are a lot of factors why a business stays operational for so long. The Name, quality of service, customer experience, word of mouth, official reviews (online like Yelp), quality of food, etc. and the customer market.
Also, if it's not an issue, the thematic emersion concept of your family's restaurant would be good to know. Is it a like "cozy, welcome to our living room" kind of place?
Being in business more than 10+ years gives you a very marketable name to capitalize on.
Forbes talks about net profit, which is good, because it defines the kind of profit being looked at.
10% net profit over 10% gross profit is obviously going to be much better.
Knowing who the restaurant caters to on a daily basis, prime time sales numbers, and so forth all go into account.
Truthfully, I appreciate the back and forth on this, because my brother manages a restaurant that pulls in 2 million dollars in profits on a yearly basis (chain restaurant called Tony Roma's), and he keeps his food costs around 26%, employee cost (due to training 2 new people) around 32% or lower. The particular location he works at will do 14k dollars in sales on any given Saturday, some times more.
And yes, I get that a family owned and operated restaurant is a stark contrast to a chain, but the primary model is essentially the same.
I would also say it's not just looking at numbers either. You have to look at where the spending goes, and how the spending is managed.
Arguably, there are a lot of factors why a business stays operational for so long. The Name, quality of service, customer experience, word of mouth, official reviews (online like Yelp), quality of food, etc. and the customer market.
Also, if it's not an issue, the thematic emersion concept of your family's restaurant would be good to know. Is it a like "cozy, welcome to our living room" kind of place?
o, i remember tony roma's... famous place for ribs! too bad they all went out of business here in washington.
i would say our restaurant is nearer the spectrum of welcome to our living room than anything else. the atmosphere of the restaurant is warm, not flashy like hooters or anything. though the separate bar section is all decor of racing cars, which is kinda flashy.
i would say our restaurant is nearer the spectrum of welcome to our living room than anything else. the atmosphere of the restaurant is warm, not flashy like hooters or anything. though the separate bar section is all decor of racing cars, which is kinda flashy.
I like the cozy feel. Kind of like you're coming home, or heading over to a friend's place. It's a HUGE asset and works in a lot of markets. Probably one of the most successful business models for a restaurant.
The locations here in Calgary for Tony Roma's all have that cozy feeling, but part of it is because my family is acquainted with a lot of the servers.
If I get the chance to travel, I might stop in for a beer or something to eat. I just love trying new things or a new spin on something classic.
The locations here in Calgary for Tony Roma's all have that cozy feeling, but part of it is because my family is acquainted with a lot of the servers.
If I get the chance to travel, I might stop in for a beer or something to eat. I just love trying new things or a new spin on something classic.
yea, i really liked tony roma's. the food was great and i was comfortable there. i was sad when all the ones in my area closed down.
Well, if the chance comes up to travel for you, come visit Calgary, and we'll share a drink or two and a meal at one of the local tony roma's here.
Bloodrose said: »
And a lot of his math in terms of breakdown was off. Many of the things he listed ended up being classified as primary one time costs.
Unless you pay utilities, non-food supplies, alcohol/beverage taxes, sales taxes, insurance (not just general liability or umbrella insurance), cleaning/janitorial, security, licencing/royalties, and specific costs for specific restaurants once a year....which you don't.
Most taxes (property tax, franchise/corporate tax, payroll tax) are paid quarterly. Even in Canada.
There are expenses that are paid once a year (roughly) but those are actually minor.
Cost of Goods Sold (which is labor and food) takes up well over half of the total cost of doing business. If your gross margin (total sales less COGS) is 50% or greater, then you are an abnormality, not an example.
Leviathan.Protey said: »
i will have to talk with them tomorrow for some of those more specific questions as i don't know them off the top of my head. To give you an idea of #s you should be seeing:
Your text to link here...
and
Your text to link here...
so as you can see, 10% is doing well for our restaurant (and is probably why we've been in business for so long).
Your text to link here...
and
Your text to link here...
so as you can see, 10% is doing well for our restaurant (and is probably why we've been in business for so long).
Even according to Protey's links, the breakdown of what you mentioned for occupancy costs, never broke 8%, which included the legal fees, insurance, rent, taxes, and so forth, which is a HUGE difference from the 35% you tried to represent. And that is based on an annual cost of business.
The second link was also missing about 15-21% of the associated costs, even though the total costs, which includes cleaning, employee wages, etc. are covered under labor, exceeded the 30% margin of total sales. Food and beverage sounded about right.
So there is still that missing 15-21% missing.
The second link was also missing about 15-21% of the associated costs, even though the total costs, which includes cleaning, employee wages, etc. are covered under labor, exceeded the 30% margin of total sales. Food and beverage sounded about right.
So there is still that missing 15-21% missing.
Then let me expand:
COGS makes up roughly 60 to upwards of 80% of the total cost to do business. COGS comprises of two items: Labor and Materials (in this case, food inventory).
I earlier stated that Labor and Materials cost roughly 30-40% each. I haven't seen COGS exceed more than about 72% of gross profit, but I have seen Labor Costs at ~40% in one restaurant and Material Costs at ~40% in another. I have never seen COGS go below 61% either.
All other expenses I listed make up the remaining amounts, which, as earlier stated, are around 30-35% of the gross profit costs. Those are considered Operating and Administration expenses (and remember, Labor doesn't equal Total Wages, as Administration Wages are not part of Labor Wages and are reported separately, both on GAAP and Tax books).
I hope this explains it better.
COGS makes up roughly 60 to upwards of 80% of the total cost to do business. COGS comprises of two items: Labor and Materials (in this case, food inventory).
I earlier stated that Labor and Materials cost roughly 30-40% each. I haven't seen COGS exceed more than about 72% of gross profit, but I have seen Labor Costs at ~40% in one restaurant and Material Costs at ~40% in another. I have never seen COGS go below 61% either.
All other expenses I listed make up the remaining amounts, which, as earlier stated, are around 30-35% of the gross profit costs. Those are considered Operating and Administration expenses (and remember, Labor doesn't equal Total Wages, as Administration Wages are not part of Labor Wages and are reported separately, both on GAAP and Tax books).
I hope this explains it better.
Bleh, images are too small, and it's too damn early in the morning.
But, it does explain your position a lot better.
Truthfully, I'd just rather have a beer or something at this point.
But, it does explain your position a lot better.
Truthfully, I'd just rather have a beer or something at this point.
Bloodrose said: »
Truthfully, I'd just rather have a beer or something at this point.
I tried to find other examples, but they were either at the wrong industry (and didn't apply) or was wishful thinking (Sales of a $1mil in a month, food costs of less than $10k, labor costs of ~$20k, no other expenses, completely unrealistic).
Yeah, that's why I went with the example of 676k on a low median (which is somewhat in line with what Protey's family's business did - between 600-720k a year)
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Whoa now, back off with that personal experience crap. This is a page about politics, so we're going to go with 3rd party numbers that best fit our side's narrative. Do you even P&R bro?
Abolish the minimum wage and make union membership optional.
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Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Abolish the minimum wage and make union membership optional.
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Abolish the minimum wage and make union membership optional.
As soon as employers provide proper pay, time off, health care, hours, and other benefits without needing to be cajoled through collective bargaining, I will gladly support the disbanding of unions.
Somehow I don't think that's likely, however.
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Abolish the minimum wage and make union membership optional.
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Abolish the minimum wage and make union membership optional.
Chaos loves the Chinese system as far as I can tell. Mostly because he makes money off of them, I suspect, so he has no problem with the way they do things as long as he gets his?
This is conjecture on my part, but that's how it seems to me.
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