~First And Final Line Of Defense V2.0~

In a fast phase roaming fights such as full clearing seg farm c, you're causing lower dps by moving the mobs with the setting up for shield blocks.

Aggro, gather, and full stop. If your dd's are doing their job, half of mobs should be dead by the time you have your shield thing set up.

Enmity is split between multiple targets on cures. Even with Cure IV healing 1k HP to each party member you can still quickly fall behind on the hate list.

Personally, I see some value in a self targeted enmity action with a low recast. Your JAs aren't always up. And reprisal's enmity isn't even worth mentioning.

I'm going to excuse myself from trying to address most the rest of that. Because it's so poorly written trying to decipher it is making my head hurt. And I apologize if this seems offensive, but I really just can't. And I don't want to scour the rest of the thread trying to see which posts parts of this are referring to.

And finally, this bit..
This doesn't really work for the one thing people would want it for. You see the enmity generated by cures is split between all mobs on the hate list. So cures are.. pretty terrible enmity generation when mass tanking many mobs. Against a single mob it's pretty decent, but terribly MP inefficient.

Uh-oh somebody doesn't understand how cure enmity works with multiple mobs.

I completely agree, there isn't always just a 1 solution fits all for every situation. However, you can full pull multiple groups at once so you're not constantly repositioning on 7 different mob types per floor. You don't have to pull 1 family at a time. You're also not tagging as you're aggro'n everything so the healer can keep you healthy without having to worry about taking aggro, and DD's can still take any off you they need as you go. This doesn't really hinder DPS and increases survivability by a lot. Any situation where you can reposition without severely impacting or hindering clear speed should absolutely be taken advantage of.

This also isn't required, most of the mobs aren't going to hit a PLD that hard in Ody-C anyways and is much less of an issue on small pulls of 10 mobs. I'm talking large pulls of 40-50+ mobs where you'll want to be getting them in position to block. This would be much more important on stuff like Dyna-D cleaving as you're not just pulling 1-2 statues at a time (at least I hope you're not).

Reprisal is the same total amount of enmity as Geist Wall? How much enmity do you think you need for tagging? You're there to hold them not hold them from dps actively engaging.... you'll never win that battle and they die too quickly is the point?


Okay, well if you don't want to read the other posts for context that's your prerogative. Thanks for apologizing for being rude lol?


I thought that was very obviously tongue in cheek but clearly everyone is so salty here they want to leap on me. That's okay, have at it. Yes, I'm a paladin that sits there and spams cure 3 on myself only for hate lol. You discovered my dark secret.

Going to reemphasize my original post because I know everyone wants to bash me as a pld/run hater for not towing the line.... imo it's niche and replaces pld/drk (if you have access to foil). I still think pld/blu is superior for crowd control. If you want to banishga mobs and foil yourself over and over, more power to you. Sounds like an awful way to spend a night night of dynamis or ody farming. Good luck.

Just LMAO agon mobs aren't dead in 3-5 seconds genius, and cementing aggro is needed versus them. And any large pulls with 4 dd's going to town on 4 different mobs foil is a million times more useful than Geist after the pull is complete. I've played both run/blu and pld/blu for ody C farm and the gear selection alone on pld makes it the better choice. However, rune can lock 4 groups onto it every 6 minutes with Ja's pld can't. And beyond that Run better controls adds with foil than pld can any time Ja's aren't up.

Maybe instead of saying play the job, maybe you should learn wtf you're talking about then come back with some facts.

"Zomg someone said something I don't like, I should act like they don't know what they're talking about because it made me sad"

Get rekt.

Just sounds like you play rune far better than you do pld. So stick with rune?

I don't experience the hate mgmt issues you do, clearly but I'm glad foil solves all your problems. :)

/blu aoe spells has a cap of 15 mobs max tagged per cast. You have to constantly target other mobs to aoe to hopefully have hate on all mobs.

Question:

Since foil is a self target MA, does it need to play by the same rules above?

Geist > Sheep > Spor > Geist = 2560 TE
Foil > Foil = 2400 TE

It only gets worse for blu when you factor in sheep and spor also have more CD than foil, even still with max haste you could nearly spam Geist to the same effect, on rune I can Geist foil Geist endlessly, so they're all up pretty regularly.

If you factor in Max enmity gear the disparity in enmity/action gets pretty wide. Especially if you can't continuously spam spells because it isn't keeping up with DD Enmity on targets that do last longer than 3-5 seconds.

Foil decimates any enmity generation Blu has save for Jet which thanks to 2 min recast and positioning requirements isn't a great choice for regular enmity generation.


First point, Rune is an awesome job, but it lacks the wide assortment of gearing utility that PLD has, switching to PLD has been pretty simple and way easier to do more things with, in addition to how ridiculously broken majesty cures can be.

Second point, I never said "omg tanking on pld so hard need foil to fix." No. What I said was Foil basically makes /BLU meaningless when /RUN will easily be better. And as far as hate management, I've made my point. You're wrong that /BLU will hold a candle to /RUN. I'm sorry that you disagree, but I hope that whatever you find you can't let go of /BLU for it brings you happiness.

The cap on mobs that can be on your hate list is 64. As long as you are within 25 yalms when you Foil it should affect whatever you've tagged.

A self targeted spell can generate enmity on all mobs already on the hate list. If there's a limit, I've not found it yet.

However the limitations of AoE spells are still somewhat relevant because you need to get on the hate list of the mobs in the first place for the self cast spell to generate enmity. So you'll either need to somehow break the mobs up into small groups and AoE those, tag another player who is on the hate list for those mobs, or tag one at a time.

But once you're on the hatelist for all mobs? Spam away and generate enmity on all of them.

Anything you are on the enmity table for, self cast abilities/spells with CE/VE values get applied to everything you're on the hate table for.

If you body pull 30 mobs and cast banishga on them you are only added to 15 mobs enmity tablss. Therefore when you foil, only those 15 mobs get the enmity.

If you pull 10 with banishga, then 10 more(without including the original pull mobs), then 10 more(same as before), and foil once, all 30 mobs receive the CE/VE from foil. AFAIK only the mobs hit receive CE/VE from Blu spells.

Top one is in 30 secs, bottom is 45 secs. Top is 50% faster enmity generation. See, I can use numbers to prove nonsense too!



I fundamentally disagree. So you go play PLD/RUN and I will continue to play PLD/BLU. Whatever, I'm not going to flip my lid if someone shows up PLD/RUN to an event lol. Foil is unnecessary and isn't worth throwing out the utility of /BLU, my opinion. If I already control the mobs well, what does Foil do for me? Nothing.

I'd rather have my multiple AOE spells, Jettatura, Cocoon, etc, What /RUN offers me in return is not as useful.

I thought we agreed a long time ago that the 15mob thing was only a limitation of the packet sent to the client when we were doing AoE in abys and not that only 15 mobs got damaged.

I've tanked AoE groups as both pld & as rdm and I'm not sure I buy into this 15 limit thing you're talking about.

Constant 34-68 meva for a targeted element or 2. 15-30% SDT constantly for 2 or 1 element. 14 constant MDB for all elements, 7%free Parry rate, 9% resist all debuff trait. 10% elemental targeted debuff resist ability. Stoneskin, Barspell, aquaveil, and foil.

Clearly all of the random assortment of Blu tier 1 traits, and 5 enmity spells you desperately need and cocoon is better than all of that. /s

Again with the Stoneskin..... *eyeroll*.

Aquaveil like SIRD doesn't exist. WTF?

Is this really a thing cause /barf. Where is your WHM's cures?

Y'all gotta chill. Ain't that serious...

All mobs get damaged, but you're only being actively added to hate tables of the first 15. You can see this with AE PLD vs a group of 30+, add geo malaise, cure pld with geo after first AE. PLD will continue to AE but the mobs will not be malaise afflicted after the first 15 die unless geo cures again.

Versus, pull every mob or group of mobs uniquely with diaga/individual casts, same set up at cleave time, every mob gets effected by malaise until they're all dead.

The geo gets added to every hate table the pld is on via the cure, the pld gets added to every hate table he put himself on.

It's not lol.... but the run fanboys are hard core!

More like the kids who cry when the only thing they know gets replaced with something better and they fear change.

It's a scary world out there, might have to do something new that's just... Better.

Is there even a single PLD/RUN on our server with foil yet? Do you have it at the ML 45 yet? No? So go level it, then come back here and tell us all how awesome PLD/RUN is with actual RL experience. You're arguing something is superior without even playing it because the sheep here say so.

Okay....

Another RUN fan boy, who's salty he had to level PLD to cleave his alts in the nest still desperate to make /RUN relevant as a sub. Who hurt you?

Oh, can you post your PLD Stoneskin set please? I really want to get in on that action. Completely serious.

You are trolling at this point.
Elemental MEVA from runes is huge.
Valiance is ja with 8100 TE if you hit whole party with it.
Stoneskin is awesome because if you are getting hit for 0-10 damage it helps that's it's 0 all the time and mob doesn't get TP, which seems to be very important in many strategies. You don't always have WHM for cureskin.
SIRD exists, but it heavily limits what you can wear in mid cast.

Define limit? My capped SIRD is capped DT and over 100 enmity. You don't need /RUN for magic mitigation when you have access to Sakpata and Aegis.

Tired of talking in circles. Again, I said PLD/RUN for niche fights if I am going up against a specific magic nm? Sure foil would be awesome. You don't need any of that on trash mob control.

Another person who doesn't regularly play paladin, please continue. Can I see your Stoneskin set? Must of missed it on the front page of the guide in this thread.

Kid. You don't know what you're talking about. I'm sorry no one made you feel special today, and you're taking it out on the world. Never exp'ed in nest, so you must really like just talking out of your ***. My PLD is 42 rn, and I'm still working on EP, BUT I know what the spell does and how to use it, does that mean I'm just making up ***? No. It means I can critically think and see value in something and prioritize it to work toward. Same as the value of the shield I got today. I didn't have it, I saw it was size 6, 140 def, 118 skill, and immediately saw the value. Is it just because you have no friends and want attention that you stalk the forums with this "Someone who doesn't play PLD regularly" ***? Because it doesn't take someone who's played paladin since launch to tell you foil, the spell all by itself is probably the single most valuable enmity spells in the game for maintaining enmity on groups.

So again, pld is 100% going to be the best tank after mlvl 45 because of /RUN for pretty much every situation that doesn't require rayke/gambit. RUN is awesome in it's own right but they're losing their most powerful spell for enmity to every mlvl45 job and most of those will have better access to a wide variety of gear for it, biggest being pld.

But at the end of the day, if you wanna talk about rune fanboy, my run/blu would out tank your pld/blu every day of the week, period. But *ANY* MLVL45 Pld/run will beat both handedly. So take your trash opinion and see yourself out.

LOL, Nope!

Message me when post your Stoneskin set.