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Vaccine / Health care scam exposed.
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 16
By Sylph.Mystaticromance 2015-02-25 09:23:22
Sylph.Mystaticromance said: »I do suggest that next flu season you seat yourself in the critical care unit of a hospital. I've watched a 31 year old cling to life while his brother died from influenza. They both were confirmed H1N1, which was included in the vaccine, and neither was vaccinated. I'd give just about anything to not hear the cries when he was told that his brother was dead.
Yes, this year's vaccine was not as effective as year's past. (by the way all that information is readily available on the CDC website). This year's US vaccine did not protect against the H3N2 strain that has been most often identified. But the flu vaccine most certainly does prevent deaths from occurring and it may have prevented the above described.
I absolutely believe that people should be vaccinated, every year, against influenza. I would go so far as to say that it should be mandatory. (There will never really be a way to enforce this without some sort of national database, but perhaps such a thing would allow accurate epidemiological studies to confirm/deny claims made in this thread.) I sure as hell don't want to be responsible for someone else ending up in the hospital or dead, and this is exactly what can occur. I've seen it happen with my own eyes. That really is all the proof I need.
Oh your such a passionate humanitarian. It's like only on one side of the debate there's people dying and hurt, oh wait what do you say to the parents of kids who have died 'from' vaccines?
Or to the parents who have to look after and see daily the heartbreaking effects of a highly autismed son/daughter, that costs triple the amount to raise?
If your gonna play the bleeding heart do it for all or none at all. No one is 'touched' by your limited compassion in persuading the debate.
No one should be forced to roll the dice one way or the other.
If vaccines are as great as you say what's the danger of mixing with those who don't if you and your small kids are protected?
I don't expect YOU to be touched, except by a deadly virus that could have been prevented by a vaccine. I'm glad you have your opinion and I have mine. We are entitled to them. But don't you dare mock the amount of compassion someone has toward another. I feel for the parents who lose their children to anything, that really should not need to be stated. The fact of the matter is, I will take the adverse event rates of vaccines ANY DAY compared to the amount of people who die to preventable disease.
It's statistically not rolling the dice, just so you are fully aware. The VAERS program (which was mentioned on earlier pages in case you want to actually look for something) will show you all reported instances. Waaaaaaaaay more people die on their way to/from work than vaccines have killed. Just to put that into perspective.
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Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-02-25 09:30:31
Sylph.Mystaticromance said: »Sylph.Mystaticromance said: »I do suggest that next flu season you seat yourself in the critical care unit of a hospital. I've watched a 31 year old cling to life while his brother died from influenza. They both were confirmed H1N1, which was included in the vaccine, and neither was vaccinated. I'd give just about anything to not hear the cries when he was told that his brother was dead.
Yes, this year's vaccine was not as effective as year's past. (by the way all that information is readily available on the CDC website). This year's US vaccine did not protect against the H3N2 strain that has been most often identified. But the flu vaccine most certainly does prevent deaths from occurring and it may have prevented the above described.
I absolutely believe that people should be vaccinated, every year, against influenza. I would go so far as to say that it should be mandatory. (There will never really be a way to enforce this without some sort of national database, but perhaps such a thing would allow accurate epidemiological studies to confirm/deny claims made in this thread.) I sure as hell don't want to be responsible for someone else ending up in the hospital or dead, and this is exactly what can occur. I've seen it happen with my own eyes. That really is all the proof I need.
Oh your such a passionate humanitarian. It's like only on one side of the debate there's people dying and hurt, oh wait what do you say to the parents of kids who have died 'from' vaccines?
Or to the parents who have to look after and see daily the heartbreaking effects of a highly autismed son/daughter, that costs triple the amount to raise?
If your gonna play the bleeding heart do it for all or none at all. No one is 'touched' by your limited compassion in persuading the debate.
No one should be forced to roll the dice one way or the other.
If vaccines are as great as you say what's the danger of mixing with those who don't if you and your small kids are protected?
I don't expect YOU to be touched, except by a deadly virus that could have been prevented by a vaccine. I'm glad you have your opinion and I have mine. We are entitled to them. But don't you dare mock the amount of compassion someone has toward another. I feel for the parents who lose their children to anything, that really should not need to be stated. The fact of the matter is, I will take the adverse event rates of vaccines ANY DAY compared to the amount of people who die to preventable disease.
It's statistically not rolling the dice, just so you are fully aware. The VAERS program (which was mentioned on earlier pages in case you want to actually look for something) will show you all reported instances. Waaaaaaaaay more people die on their way to/from work than vaccines have killed. Just to put that into perspective. I wouldn't bother with charlo, he doesn't understand basic science or measuring.
He will always believe he is right and when you prove him wrong enough times, he will just call you a troll and block you just so he can finally win an argument (in his mind).
By Altimaomega 2015-02-25 10:17:33
nothing will convince them Nothing will convince anyone who ignore facts presented to them and then demand that you respond to their arguments, and ignore any counter-arguments you present. It also doesn't help when they present very skewed data to reflect their argument.
"Oh, there hasn't been a measles death in 20 years, but there's been 100 total deaths from vaccines in that entire time!"
<presents WHO data that shows the number of deaths from measles in 2013, which is far greater than 5 per year>
<that data gets ignored and another stupid argument is presented>
Wow.. I thought you was above the liberal tactic of misrepresenting supplied data to fit your own agenda.
Big difference between the "10yrs USA no deaths from measles" and the "20 years UK greater than 5 deaths per yr" points.
Keep exaggerating and manipulating facts presented then demand that your arguments are valid.
Jesus the amount of idiocy of the antivax group really hurts me.
I mean just make a list of who the antivax posters are, it speaks volumes for this argument. I challenge you to rate them by intelligence.
Make a list of all the people that would force inject every vaccine into the unwilling and you have every poster that's for global warming and thinks Obamacare is a good thing.. Not to mention the fact that a lot of the so called "antivax" posters are simply against certain things about vaccines and not all vaccines in general. It is hilarious the huge amount of middle ground on this subject, but all the pro-vax people would rather go on a witch hunt while believing they are all knowing intelligent beings that are really just spouting ignorance.
By Altimaomega 2015-02-25 10:36:43
Wow.. I thought you was above the liberal tactic of misrepresenting supplied data to fit your own agenda.
Keep exaggerating and manipulating facts presented then demand that your arguments are valid.
And you don't? Sure feels like it's all you've been doing.
By Altimaomega 2015-02-25 10:49:26
It's because I can't tell if you are a great troll or just insane.
In order to navigate the waters of ffxiah.com/forum its good to be both.
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-02-25 10:53:02
Wow.. I thought you was above the liberal tactic of misrepresenting supplied data to fit your own agenda.
Big difference between the "10yrs USA no deaths from measles" and the "20 years UK greater than 5 deaths per yr" points.
Keep exaggerating and manipulating facts presented then demand that your arguments are valid. You want to compare apples to apples? Ok, fine by me.
Number of deaths worldwide in 2013 by measles: 145,700
Number of deaths worldwide in 2013 by all vaccines: 15
Who's manipulating what data again?
 Quetzalcoatl.Waffless
Serveur: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 376
By Quetzalcoatl.Waffless 2015-02-25 10:53:07
http://boughtmovie.net/free-viewing/?AFFID=197258 fantastic film it shows the curuption of medical and how vaccines are dangerious for you. Wake up and see the truth do not fall for all this brain washing. There are more people with cronic illneses these days then there where 100 years ago. Just look around. Main cause GMO,Pharma company's cashing in on selling people drugs and vaccines so they can sell you more drugs and more vaccines . quote "If a lie is told long enough and loud enough people will believe it as fact" I do Admit my Spelling is not the best and I am sorry about that. You can not trust data that come's from the company that profit's from selling drug's / vaccine's It is lie's Look for data that come's from a non profit organization
It's a shame you're alive and polluting my air.
 Ragnarok.Sekundes
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4193
By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2015-02-25 11:02:20
YouTube Video Placeholder
By Altimaomega 2015-02-25 11:02:26
Wow.. I thought you was above the liberal tactic of misrepresenting supplied data to fit your own agenda.
Big difference between the "10yrs USA no deaths from measles" and the "20 years UK greater than 5 deaths per yr" points.
Keep exaggerating and manipulating facts presented then demand that your arguments are valid. You want to compare apples to apples? Ok, fine by me.
Number of deaths worldwide in 2013 by measles: 145,700
Number of deaths worldwide in 2013 by all vaccines: 15
Who's manipulating what data again?
The one that failed to read Deaths in the USA and is trying to say WORLDWIDE. Multiple times...
 Valefor.Sehachan
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-02-25 11:04:48
You made me do this, remember! YouTube Video Placeholder
sometimes I wonder if you guys realize you're exactly like this guy.
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-02-25 11:07:51
Wow.. I thought you was above the liberal tactic of misrepresenting supplied data to fit your own agenda.
Big difference between the "10yrs USA no deaths from measles" and the "20 years UK greater than 5 deaths per yr" points.
Keep exaggerating and manipulating facts presented then demand that your arguments are valid. You want to compare apples to apples? Ok, fine by me.
Number of deaths worldwide in 2013 by measles: 145,700
Number of deaths worldwide in 2013 by all vaccines: 15
Who's manipulating what data again?
The one that failed to read Deaths in the USA and is trying to say WORLDWIDE. Multiple times... Think for a minute. Is the United States of America exclusive from the rest of the earth?
Because it doesn't matter how many deaths in the US by measles compared to the number of deaths in the US by vaccines when you are talking about a highly contagious virus that still plagues the world. You stop vaccinating people in the US, guess what's going to happen. That's right, the number of deaths in the US from measles is going to be greater than zero.
Your source actually proves how effective vaccines are. Not how pointless they are, but how effective the vaccine is over a decade of immunization of the virus.
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Valefor.Sehachan
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-02-25 11:09:16
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By Altimaomega 2015-02-25 11:17:39
Wow.. I thought you was above the liberal tactic of misrepresenting supplied data to fit your own agenda.
Big difference between the "10yrs USA no deaths from measles" and the "20 years UK greater than 5 deaths per yr" points.
Keep exaggerating and manipulating facts presented then demand that your arguments are valid. You want to compare apples to apples? Ok, fine by me.
Number of deaths worldwide in 2013 by measles: 145,700
Number of deaths worldwide in 2013 by all vaccines: 15
Who's manipulating what data again?
The one that failed to read Deaths in the USA and is trying to say WORLDWIDE. Multiple times... Think for a minute. Is the United States of America exclusive from the rest of the earth?
In the data I posted it was. I'm glad you can admit when your wrong and I accept your apology.
You stop vaccinating people in the US, guess what's going to happen. Please I implore you, quote when I said we have to stop letting people get vaccinated.
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-02-25 11:23:42
Wow.. I thought you was above the liberal tactic of misrepresenting supplied data to fit your own agenda.
Big difference between the "10yrs USA no deaths from measles" and the "20 years UK greater than 5 deaths per yr" points.
Keep exaggerating and manipulating facts presented then demand that your arguments are valid. You want to compare apples to apples? Ok, fine by me.
Number of deaths worldwide in 2013 by measles: 145,700
Number of deaths worldwide in 2013 by all vaccines: 15
Who's manipulating what data again?
The one that failed to read Deaths in the USA and is trying to say WORLDWIDE. Multiple times... Think for a minute. Is the United States of America exclusive from the rest of the earth?
In the data I posted it was. I'm glad you can admit when your wrong and I accept your apology. Seriously?
Are you implying that if we stop immunizing children today, that we will still have zero deaths for the next 5/10/20/50 years?
I hate to break it to you bub, but the US is not exclusive in this world, and people come from other countries, including countries where vaccines are not mandated by law like it is here in the US. Remember what happened at Disneyland a month or two ago? The kid who brought measles to the park was a foreign kid, and those who were infected were those who's parents refused to immunize their kids.
As I stated before:
Your source actually proves how effective vaccines are. Not how pointless they are, but how effective the vaccine is over a decade of immunization of the virus.
You have yet to prove me wrong or even counter this argument at all.
I'm the only one here who is accepting apologies, because there is no way in hell anyone here is going to prove me wrong on this topic, the sources and facts support my argument and viewpoint way too strong on this.
You stop vaccinating people in the US, guess what's going to happen. Please I implore you, quote when I said we have to stop letting people get vaccinated. Then what is it that you want to change? The whole point of being "anti-vax" is to stop vaccinations from occurring in the first place.
By Altimaomega 2015-02-25 11:37:57
Wow.. I thought you was above the liberal tactic of misrepresenting supplied data to fit your own agenda.
Big difference between the "10yrs USA no deaths from measles" and the "20 years UK greater than 5 deaths per yr" points.
Keep exaggerating and manipulating facts presented then demand that your arguments are valid. You want to compare apples to apples? Ok, fine by me.
Number of deaths worldwide in 2013 by measles: 145,700
Number of deaths worldwide in 2013 by all vaccines: 15
Who's manipulating what data again?
The one that failed to read Deaths in the USA and is trying to say WORLDWIDE. Multiple times... Think for a minute. Is the United States of America exclusive from the rest of the earth?
In the data I posted it was. I'm glad you can admit when your wrong and I accept your apology. Seriously?
Are you implying that if we stop immunizing children today, that we will still have zero deaths for the next 5/10/20/50 years?
I hate to break it to you bub, but the US is not exclusive in this world, and people come from other countries, including countries where vaccines are not mandated by law like it is here in the US. Remember what happened at Disneyland a month or two ago? The kid who brought measles to the park was a foreign kid, and those who were infected were those who's parents refused to immunize their kids.
As I stated before:
Your source actually proves how effective vaccines are. Not how pointless they are, but how effective the vaccine is over a decade of immunization of the virus.
You have yet to prove me wrong or even counter this argument at all.
I'm the only one here who is accepting apologies, because there is no way in hell anyone here is going to prove me wrong on this topic, the sources and facts support my argument and viewpoint way too strong on this.
You stop vaccinating people in the US, guess what's going to happen. Please I implore you, quote when I said we have to stop letting people get vaccinated. Then what is it that you want to change? The whole point of being "anti-vax" is to stop vaccinations from occurring in the first place.
Never said I am anti-vax you are just assuming it. Funny how you mention disney land.. Since I did in the very post I made in this thread that you have apparently been arguing against, but have never actually read it.
With all this vaccine talk and measles running rampant, I figured people must be dieing in the thousands..... Turns out nobody has died from the measles in an entire decade. Shocking I know! Even more shocking over 100 people have died from the measles vaccine during the same decade.. Crazy stuff huh.. All this fear mongering and everyone demanding to make even more things mandatory to actually live in this so called free country I figured on seeing much higher numbers on both sides of the spectrum.
http://vaccineimpact.com/2015/zero-u-s-measles-deaths-in-10-years-but-over-100-measles-vaccine-deaths-reported/
Not saying don't get vaccinated from dire disease, just think about all the repercussions that could possibly happen if you do or don't.
Please Note that I just proved you wrong the sources and facts support my argument and your viewpoint is totally reliant on things I have never said.
Cerberus.Pleebo
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2015-02-25 11:54:51
You never really addressed how HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE that link was.
 Caitsith.Zahrah
Serveur: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
By Caitsith.Zahrah 2015-02-25 11:57:03
Fun fact: Serbia requires mandatory vaccinations for tuberculosis whereas the U.S doesn't. Yet the U.S. tests for tuberculosis every time you enter a prison or jail.
Flu shots, well whomever decided to procure some with government funds was arrested for corruption charges for doing so.
Well, considering that TB is most prolific in third world countries, why bring TB vaccinations into this? I thought the argument some are trying to back is that there are too many vaccinations to begin with. The only available TB vaccination was introduced in 2011.
Any links for the testing of inmates?
I think it was Jassik who said earlier that despite immunization requirements from state-to-state, no one is forcing them upon you.
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VIP
Serveur: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9534
By Odin.Jassik 2015-02-25 12:01:43
Fun fact: Serbia requires mandatory vaccinations for tuberculosis whereas the U.S doesn't. Yet the U.S. tests for tuberculosis every time you enter a prison or jail.
Flu shots, well whomever decided to procure some with government funds was arrested for corruption charges for doing so.
Well, considering that TB is most prolific in third world countries, why bring TB vaccinations into this? I thought the argument some are trying to back is that there are too many vaccinations to begin with. The only available TB vaccination was only introduced in 2011.
Any links for the testing of inmates?
I think it was Jassik who said earlier that despite immunization requirements from state-to-state, no one is forcing them upon you.
They are certainly forcing them on SOME people. Actually, even though no states to my knowledge require TB vaccinations, my wife had to be tested as part of her immigration process. In fact, because she HAD been vaccinated previously, the test was a formality which we still had to pay for, and the positive result we knew she would have meant she had to have a vaccination. All of which we were required to pay for. I understand the need for it, and an additional vaccination is hardly a large risk, but if I had one "neo-libertarian" stance on the issue, it's that a lot of our rules about vaccination are moronically counter-productive.
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By Altimaomega 2015-02-25 12:05:55
I hope he's aware anyone can report anything to the VAERS database. For a while, becoming The Hulk was officially a side effect of the influenza shot. The prankster had to call VAERS to have it removed.
Hardest phone call I've ever had to make....
 Bahamut.Milamber
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3691
By Bahamut.Milamber 2015-02-25 12:21:35
How the hell do you people even find this stupid crap? Email chains?
Valefor.Sehachan
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-02-25 12:29:19
Send this to 10 friends within two days or you'll catch ebola.
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-02-25 12:30:31
Never said I am anti-vax you are just assuming it. You never have to outright say if you are for/against any topic, your posts can and will say it for you.
Now, if you want to imply that you are not anti-vax, then why are you arguing against vaccinations?
Funny how you mention disney land.. Since I did in the very post I made in this thread that you have apparently been arguing against, but have never actually read it. I read it, I dismissed that source as creditable when it showed a lot of opinionated fluff and taking hard evidence and skewing it for the author's agenda. Which is common in websites like the one you posted.
Please Note that I just proved you wrong the sources and facts support my argument and your viewpoint is totally reliant on things I have never said. I don't think you even know what your argument is.
You just claimed that you are not an "anti-vaxer" but you are arguing like an anti-vaxer.
By Altimaomega 2015-02-25 12:47:15
Never said I am anti-vax you are just assuming it. You never have to outright say if you are for/against any topic, your posts can and will say it for you.
Now, if you want to imply that you are not anti-vax, then why are you arguing against vaccinations?
Funny how you mention disney land.. Since I did in the very post I made in this thread that you have apparently been arguing against, but have never actually read it. I read it, I dismissed that source as creditable when it showed a lot of opinionated fluff and taking hard evidence and skewing it for the author's agenda. Which is common in websites like the one you posted.
Please Note that I just proved you wrong the sources and facts support my argument and your viewpoint is totally reliant on things I have never said. I don't think you even know what your argument is.
You just claimed that you are not an "anti-vaxer" but you are arguing like an anti-vaxer.
Are you being dense on purpose again?
By fonewear 2015-02-25 12:56:44
How the hell do you people even find this stupid crap? Email chains?
My guess Facebook.
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-02-25 12:56:54
Never said I am anti-vax you are just assuming it. You never have to outright say if you are for/against any topic, your posts can and will say it for you.
Now, if you want to imply that you are not anti-vax, then why are you arguing against vaccinations?
Funny how you mention disney land.. Since I did in the very post I made in this thread that you have apparently been arguing against, but have never actually read it. I read it, I dismissed that source as creditable when it showed a lot of opinionated fluff and taking hard evidence and skewing it for the author's agenda. Which is common in websites like the one you posted.
Please Note that I just proved you wrong the sources and facts support my argument and your viewpoint is totally reliant on things I have never said. I don't think you even know what your argument is.
You just claimed that you are not an "anti-vaxer" but you are arguing like an anti-vaxer.
Are you being dense on purpose again? No, are you?
By charlo999 2015-02-25 13:09:27
Sylph.Mystaticromance said: »Sylph.Mystaticromance said: »I do suggest that next flu season you seat yourself in the critical care unit of a hospital. I've watched a 31 year old cling to life while his brother died from influenza. They both were confirmed H1N1, which was included in the vaccine, and neither was vaccinated. I'd give just about anything to not hear the cries when he was told that his brother was dead.
Yes, this year's vaccine was not as effective as year's past. (by the way all that information is readily available on the CDC website). This year's US vaccine did not protect against the H3N2 strain that has been most often identified. But the flu vaccine most certainly does prevent deaths from occurring and it may have prevented the above described.
I absolutely believe that people should be vaccinated, every year, against influenza. I would go so far as to say that it should be mandatory. (There will never really be a way to enforce this without some sort of national database, but perhaps such a thing would allow accurate epidemiological studies to confirm/deny claims made in this thread.) I sure as hell don't want to be responsible for someone else ending up in the hospital or dead, and this is exactly what can occur. I've seen it happen with my own eyes. That really is all the proof I need.
Oh your such a passionate humanitarian. It's like only on one side of the debate there's people dying and hurt, oh wait what do you say to the parents of kids who have died 'from' vaccines?
Or to the parents who have to look after and see daily the heartbreaking effects of a highly autismed son/daughter, that costs triple the amount to raise?
If your gonna play the bleeding heart do it for all or none at all. No one is 'touched' by your limited compassion in persuading the debate.
No one should be forced to roll the dice one way or the other.
If vaccines are as great as you say what's the danger of mixing with those who don't if you and your small kids are protected?
I don't expect YOU to be touched, except by a deadly virus that could have been prevented by a vaccine. I'm glad you have your opinion and I have mine. We are entitled to them. But don't you dare mock the amount of compassion someone has toward another. I feel for the parents who lose their children to anything, that really should not need to be stated. The fact of the matter is, I will take the adverse event rates of vaccines ANY DAY compared to the amount of people who die to preventable disease.
It's statistically not rolling the dice, just so you are fully aware. The VAERS program (which was mentioned on earlier pages in case you want to actually look for something) will show you all reported instances. Waaaaaaaaay more people die on their way to/from work than vaccines have killed. Just to put that into perspective.
Don't backtrack on your lack of encompassing everyone into your compassionate heart on my behalf. It was agenda written, plain as day.
I don't care if you will take adverse effects over disease. No one does. The debate is having the decision forced, by means of exclusion from society or just 'good old force' in some cases.
Undeniable fact is that some vaccines have caused more damage or non effect than good, but still heavily promoted as good.
Companies have been taken to court and had to pay huge fees.
Which is a tiny mount in reality against the profits made.
By the way, unless one side of the coin has absolutely 0% chance then rolling the dice is exactly what it is, only things that changes is the percentage swing.
As far as I can see statistics have been posted in support of dropping "some" vaccines and on the other hand all I'm seeing is word of mouth, belittling.
All I need to see in a debate, as most people, is solid information and well researched facts for both sides. Then a option of choice for the public.
Then people can make their own mind up.
I'm done needlessly discussing an argument with you.
I'd rather discuss information and facts
http://boughtmovie.net/free-viewing/?AFFID=197258 fantastic film it shows the curuption of medical and how vaccines are dangerious for you. Wake up and see the truth do not fall for all this brain washing. There are more people with cronic illneses these days then there where 100 years ago. Just look around. Main cause GMO,Pharma company's cashing in on selling people drugs and vaccines so they can sell you more drugs and more vaccines . quote "If a lie is told long enough and loud enough people will believe it as fact" I do Admit my Spelling is not the best and I am sorry about that. You can not trust data that come's from the company that profit's from selling drug's / vaccine's It is lie's Look for data that come's from a non profit organization
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