Killer Instinct: The Beastmaster Compendium

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Killer Instinct: The Beastmaster Compendium
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 Asura.Geriond
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By Asura.Geriond 2018-03-13 19:05:27
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That BST spreadsheet has the stats for at least Ruinator, Primal Rend, Decimation, Calamity, and Mistral Axe wrong.
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-03-13 19:20:44
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Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk said: »
I'm getting around 7k Ruinator and 14k Calamity on my bst with 12k Mistral axe. It varies, but thats generally true, and not in fully buffed zerg like situation.

Something is horrifically wrong with your numbers. I've been CPing BST to 2100 using DD onry method with a Tri-edge and Mistral axe is averaging 20K with mediocre buffs. Those include a NQ 900 GEO Fury + Frailty, Haste II, Cornelia and that's it. The target is frogs and fish in Woh Gates. Ruinator was averaging around 12K. This resulted in Ruinator being better on Fish due to Darkness SC and Mistral being better on Frogs due to SC's sucking on them.

Now if I had proper buffs then I'd do multi-steps which favor Mistral as a finisher. Mistral Axe is the Savage Blade of Axe WS's, it's stupidly strong with TP Bonus gear. Ruinator is more like Resolution, benefits from stacking multi-attack but doesn't have any damage scaling with TP.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2018-03-13 20:55:27
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Something is horrifically wrong w/ your attitude.

the example wasn't about total damage it was about comparing weaponskill damage to each other


I'm not using a geo, I'm solo. I'm not using any attack buffs save food. I"m not fighting apex mobs. probably some 119~129 NM on a solo w/ trusts. bst's biggest problem w/ master damage is attack deficiency.. which is why the geo is gonna make a huge difference. fury and frailty... and you act like that's nothing for a bst. Take the geo away. see how you do. Also My Aymur not afterglow, so significant difference in damage rating compared to Tri-edge.


thanx for sharing the dps self-gratification.. or not
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2018-03-13 20:56:51
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Asura.Geriond said: »
That BST spreadsheet has the stats for at least Ruinator, Primal Rend, Decimation, Calamity, and Mistral Axe wrong.
did you look at spreadsheet? or just basing this off the rough numbers I shared?

if the first, details would be appreciated.
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By Asura.Geriond 2018-03-13 21:07:54
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Just look at the weaponskills in the Other Lists spreadsheet and compare them to the data on their BG wiki pages. Many of them are way off.
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By Siren.Kyte 2018-03-13 21:43:16
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Oddly enough, I don't think those fTP are correct for the pre-adjustment values either. They are, however, much closer to the pre-adjustment values- which is why Ruinator appears to have an advantage (it received basically nothing from the WS buffs).
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By Asura.Aoryu 2018-03-13 22:50:58
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guess i was mainly determining whether to pick tri-edge or not, probably won't finish every aeonic so choosing the last couple i get a bit more carefully.

seems if ruinator falls behind mistral will still make it worthwhile for master only which is what i was interested in, thanks.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2018-03-14 09:44:35
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DPS Spreadsheet

I've re-posted my updated Spreadsheet. Its not perfectly neat in the gear lists, but its better than the old one Byrth posted.

I noticed that the problem I've wrestled with for Calamity in Set2 didn't work on Byrth's spreadsheed either.

I've updated the FTP numbers on the Other Lists worksheet to reflect what is on BG-wiki. I've also changed the attack modifier on Ruinator from 35% to 10% as listed on BG-wiki.

I'm still not convinced it is accurate though. It brings Mistral Axe closer to Ruinator in estimated damage, but its still a bit lower. Calamity is lower also.

I also think the Mistral Axe formula is mistaken because it has Epona's ring helping it out significantly. AFAIK Mistral is limited to a single hit.

BG wiki lists that ftp is transfered to all hits for Rampage as well as Ruinator. I toggled the field for Rampage but left Ruinator alone in that regard.

I would appreciate if someone could double check the spreadsheet. I'm still not confident about it, another set of eyes would be helpful. Consequently, this shows Totemic +3 hands to be superior to Meghanada +2 hands after the changes in FTP for Calamity and Mistral Axe... but again the Spreadsheet does not seem fully reliable yet.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2018-03-14 10:17:15
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This attention to the spreadsheet has me itching to tackle an old problem I keep putting off since coming back. That is adding pets to the spreadsheet. If I'm gonna put the effort in to trying to make the spreadsheet reliable, I may as well try to make it complete.

We have almost all the information we need in this guide. I think all we are lacking are the primary stats for our pets at level 119: STR, DEX, VIT, AGI, INT, MND, CHR

Mostly we need STR and DEX, but I like to be thorough when I can, and I think Falkirk does also.

I think I have some tests which should work pretty easily for most of these stats.

Idea is this, go into brenner w/ blu and a bst.
Bst rotates thru pets at level 99 and full JP with no other gear or familiar.

Blue Mage uses magical spells with no gear (lower damage) and known stats (MND, INT, DEX etc)

Blue nukes each pet with each spell with a different modifier. This should should give us dDEX, dMND, etc and known values from the blue mage.

So would probably the following spells:
STR:
DEX: Charged Whisker
Vit: Thermal Pulse
AGI:
INT: Dark Orb
MND: Mind Blast
CHR: Eyes on Me


Unfortunately there are not blue magical spells which use STR or AGI as modifiers.

STR I think we could revert to the old method, parse pet on pdif capped mobs to get min/max damage. then do it again after using familiar for +60 STR

Any Ideas on AGI test?

Please sanity check these ideas. Thank you.
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By clearlyamule 2018-03-14 12:29:12
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Brenner might be a tad harder because it has some weird dmg modification that I could never really tack down because it seemed to change in some way or plugged into the formula weirdly so would pretty much need a dummy with same mdt and mdb to compare values to.

Other ways you could do it is get nuked anywhere for int. Use impact and checkparam to then back calculate dex, str, vit and agi though will likely be some small amounts of error.
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By Siren.Kyte 2018-03-15 01:58:13
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Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk said: »

Blue nukes each pet with each spell with a different modifier. This should should give us dDEX, dMND, etc and known values from the blue mage.

So would probably the following spells:
STR:
DEX: Charged Whisker
Vit: Thermal Pulse
AGI:
INT: Dark Orb
MND: Mind Blast
CHR: Eyes on Me


Unfortunately there are not blue magical spells which use STR or AGI as modifiers.

There are spells that use STR and AGI as modifiers (WSC). However, what you want are spells that use those attributes as dStats- which is something that some the spells on your list don't accomplish either (Charged Whisker and Thermal Pulse are both still dINT).
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By clearlyamule 2018-03-15 14:11:07
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Oh yeah forgot about that. iirc the only target stats that matter for magical dmgs are chr, mnd, int.

Even the ones that use some other stat of the user for comparison will still usually use int for the target side. ie ranged magical ws are all agi vs int.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2018-03-23 20:22:24
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I Can't seem to get kparser working.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2018-04-04 09:10:26
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We can now cap pet -pdt
and get pet -mdt up to 77% about 10.5% short of cap

Heyoka +1 set + Izoezoeksi + primal belt + earrings is pet enmity +70

+60 if you only have nq heyoka set.

it makes me want to try bst tanking like someone was asking about a bit ago.

As far as pet damage reduction, we are in similar situation as pup. however, unlike pup we don't have as huge of a regen, or direct from the pet enmity building tools.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2018-04-27 14:54:40
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Not sure if you want to add this for the guide for offhand primal rend set:

Malevolence

and extra +44 mab is kinda nice.
and we can't get that much mab in offhand shield
and a dagger off hand is pretty fast, though not sure if acc would be poor enough for not worth it building tp.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Falkirk 2018-04-27 15:36:47
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Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk said: »
Not sure if you want to add this for the guide for offhand primal rend set:

Malevolence

and extra +44 mab is kinda nice.
and we can't get that much mab in offhand shield
and a dagger off hand is pretty fast, though not sure if acc would be poor enough for not worth it building tp.

That Magic Accuracy+35 is nice too.

Consider it done.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2018-04-29 22:59:47
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cool :D

so I was updating lua after upgrading Ankusa helm, and I was looking at my charm set and thought, I wonder if there is anything out there I actually need so much charm + on.

so in order to test if looked for the highest level charmable mob.

Best I find looks like Apex Bat Inner Ra'kaznar lvl 137 ~139
Guess what! It was rather hard to charm!

took me like 5 tries, then it only stayed charmed maybe a minute. So ofcourse I recharmed it (4 more tries) and used familiar.

It felt like trying to charm something WAY higher level than you! (kinda like it is) I used Chatoyant first few attempts and then decided to try while keeping Aymur in hand for ilvl. I'm guessing the old formulas are exactly the same, and in retrospect I should have probably tried maximum CHR set instead of just all the Charm + (I've only upgraded ankusa helm of the relic pieces, and we use totemic helm +3 anyway so i know I have more chr in other pieces, not sure how high the chr on level 139 mob could be, maybe I should go back and gauge :P)

but hey, just goes to show, you won't charm super high level stuff w/out a charm set :D. and charmed pets have very similar balance to before. SUPER high hp and mediocre slow damage. HOWEVER, all that DA and attack really makes a charmed Apex wear down other apex alot faster they they are worn down.

I let Apex Bat wear down the Apex Vodorigas (gargoyles). Pet solo got the gargoyle down to 67% while only being worn down to 90% itself. This was just in my master idle pet engaged set.. so a as much pet da as I have and a fair bit of Acc and attack a little pdt also. as a war type mob, might have had ~40% DA total.

Granted, NO one wants to wait for an apex bat to kill another mob, familiar might actually wear off before it can kill it. ESPECIALLY if you attacking one of those stupid Umbril!

What was SE thinking making that zone? There is nothing there except a path to run past/thru to get to last boss of Adoulin. I don't thinkt here are any NM's or drops in that whole zone. talk about a boring, useless place.

tldr; Charm set still kinda almost relavent! but it was fun to toy with and a bit nostalgic!
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By clearlyamule 2018-04-29 23:02:31
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You know the even crazier part about that zone is? Those high level mobs that are about the only thing in it and you'd think were good for cp in fact aren't since you can cap cp on them even without ring without campaigns on chain.
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By Nyarlko 2018-04-30 11:45:23
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clearlyamule said: »
You know the even crazier part about that zone is? Those high level mobs that are about the only thing in it and you'd think were good for cp in fact aren't since you can cap cp on them even without ring without campaigns on chain.

That would mean that they ARE good for CP. Just not BEST for CP during campaigns since easier targets will give just as much with faster kills. The primary irritant for me w/ Inner Rakaznar is that the "special" apex mobs that can only be found there are totally surrounded by other hostile mobs (usually umbrils IIRC) and are nearly impossible to pull cleanly. >_< I spent several hours there trying when trying to learn blue magic a couple years ago.. Did not go well.

About Charm+ tho for those who are playing around with it..
Are there any mobs in Reisenjima that are worth Familiar'ing? I've always thought it could be fun to have a bunch of BST grab a bunch of mantids for their aoe spam since it's not limited to Sic. The extra restrictions on Sic vs Ready is the main reason I'm not too keen on trying to build a Charm set, but can't think of too many targets that might be able to offset it.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2018-04-30 12:14:40
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Sadly, I'm pretty sure you can't charm anything in Escha/Reisenjima zones.

abyssea style

even so, Reisenjima mobs tend to have between 14k and 18k hp and be around level 125~129 iirc.

not nearly powerful enough to use. Also, I'll have to check, but I dont' think you can charm mantis type mobs anyway, even outside of reisenjima.

all this highlighting just how much SE doesn't want us to Charm anymore :D

thinking back on my example from last night, 5x fails before successful charm on a mob 17 to 20 levels above me is actually pretty awesome for a charm set. iirc charming a slime in level capped phomiuna aqueducts was often harder and more deadly than my escapades last night, and 20 levels is a much bigger difference than phomiuna.
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By clearlyamule 2018-04-30 12:29:16
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Nyarlko said: »
clearlyamule said: »
You know the even crazier part about that zone is? Those high level mobs that are about the only thing in it and you'd think were good for cp in fact aren't since you can cap cp on them even without ring without campaigns on chain.

That would mean that they ARE good for CP. Just not BEST for CP during campaigns since easier targets will give just as much with faster kills. The primary irritant for me w/ Inner Rakaznar is that the "special" apex mobs that can only be found there are totally surrounded by other hostile mobs (usually umbrils IIRC) and are nearly impossible to pull cleanly. >_< I spent several hours there trying when trying to learn blue magic a couple years ago.. Did not go well.

About Charm+ tho for those who are playing around with it..
Are there any mobs in Reisenjima that are worth Familiar'ing? I've always thought it could be fun to have a bunch of BST grab a bunch of mantids for their aoe spam since it's not limited to Sic. The extra restrictions on Sic vs Ready is the main reason I'm not too keen on trying to build a Charm set, but can't think of too many targets that might be able to offset it.
Perhaps I understated how easy it is to cap on them. Ring singlehandedly does it (and wears off even if you don't get anything from it lol), high chain (assuming you could even maintain one) for people who already have decent amount of jp spent (which really given their difficulty would be anyone trying). Even outside of campaign they are poor cp/hour compared to basically anything else anyone does. It ends up being a small increase per kill for a much greater kill time. Maybe if you setup really specific parties to handle specific mob type weaknesses it could work... go old bones pt lol.

Not sure about reisin proper but have charmed stuff in omen. Though Mantids were on the no charm list though
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By Nyarlko 2018-04-30 12:42:11
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OK. NM then. :( I really can't think of any mob types that would be worthwhile dealing with Charm over jugs then..

And yeah, I know about how much CP/kill you can get from them. IIRC, it was like chain3-5 when CP capped out on it's own? :/ Been a long time since I bothered trying to kill them and when I tried it was virtually impossible to grind on them successfully since they had ~1800+ eva.

IF you had a group that could take take them down fast enough to maintain chain though, that would still be solid CP/hour and up there with lower level alternatives that can be killed faster. That's going to be hard to find though, which is why no one bothers with the zone. T_T
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By Asura.Sirris 2018-04-30 13:28:35
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Does anyone use their beastmaster for Kirin/WoC/Reisenjima HELMs or Omen farming regularly? I've been kicking around the idea of building an Aymur and using Unleash in the ACburn strats that my LS uses... I mean, we use Odyllic Subterfuge anyway so the range nerf doesn't really matter that much for the 30 seconds that's on the mob. Falkirk has advice on pets for some of this content in his guide but not this strat specifically. I miss playing on BST and I haven't had the chance to use it in a while. Wouldn't expect outdamage a good Nirvana summoner but it seems like it'd be fun to do, put up AM3 and go to town?
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2018-04-30 14:01:07
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Asura.Sirris said: »
Does anyone use their beastmaster for Kirin/WoC/Reisenjima HELMs or Omen farming regularly?

I don't go to Omen much on BST lately because I finished those upgrades first. I usually go on sch or smn because those are the cards I need.

However I've done all of omen regularly w/ a pet strategy. BST is a Beast in Omen. Very good for fast killing and very versatile for most objectives, except for magic, though I have done bursts using /nin magic.

AM3 and unleash are mostly only used with Vivacious Vickie's Sweeping Gouge, though its a bonus for Pentapeck, Wing Slap, and Chomp Rush as well.

Make sure not to swap out Aymur if you keeping am3 up for unleash.

I'm not sure which way you are thinking about using bst. I don't often have bst in melee parties, though I am geared up well for it.
I've done all of omen mostly on Pet party: PUP, BST, SMN, GEO, COR, and get another 1 of any of the above.

BST using bouncing bertha kills all the trash mobs in Omen faster than anyone else. It saves alot of time. 2x bst w/ a cor, mean you can pull everything and kill everything on smaller floors in about 30s. I'm pretty sure Beaztmaster has a youtube video up showing this technique.

Gin, I'd often use patrick to setup quickly repeated fusion skillchain to drop shield and burst off. usually followed up by smn or rng for light.

FU is very fun on pets because they can survive his raging better and you can dish out the massive damage w/ ready and bps. pup tank ftw.

I've used bsts strats w/ Erinys, Onychophora, Teles for Reisenjima Helms.

Haven't really used on the others.

As far as similar techniques as smn for those fights....

TP Drainkiss from fatso fargann can work alot liek Mewing lullaby, but recast will be around 30s instead of 22, and its dark based instead of light.

For unleash, Bouncing Bertha is the most popular for Tegmina buffet. High, reliable damage.

It can be outdone by VivaciousVickie and AM3 but most bst I know don't have as reliable of multi-hit ready move set.

For magical Damage under Unleash, Fluffy Bredo should be king, even w/ the ability to burst very high, but only on darkness and water elementals

Another niche technique for unleash is Faithful Falcorr. you need to work out the right delay, but doing Fantod > Backheel under unleash can yield 80k hits in buffed up zerg situations, be aware Falcorr being capped at level 114 will make accuracy more of a concern for this setup. (blunt damage really fun for skeleton/corse types for extra 25% damage, easily boosts up to 99k per hit). I was tanking on pup when Bzt and a really good smn.. don't remember who, were ripping down Maju w/ this strat. it was alot of fun to see the consistent 50k backheels on Maju, then turn to 80k when Unleash was up.

Another technique for opening zerg fights, is if you can Land Purulent Ooze at the beginning of a fight. wearing Tali'ah +2 set, you have really good proc rate. Max hp down 10% is REALLY nice for nm's with alot of hp. I really want to try it on Kirin and WoC next time I fight them. You then want to quickly change to a DD pet after landing purlent or both purlent and Corrosive ooze (33% attack/def down) which is strongest def down outside idris geo. 75s~90s duration.


I think these techniques and experiences address your question
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By Asura.Sirris 2018-04-30 16:06:27
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Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk said: »
I think these techniques and experiences address your question

They do indeed, thanks. I need to put some work in on my sets (especially pet mab and multiattack) but it should be fun if I can convince people to allow me to do stuff on BST again. I didn't know that about Generous Arthur's Ooze, either.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2018-05-14 22:04:55
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I was thinking about bst pet tanking and I can confirm something that doesn't work.

pet buff ready moves don't appear to add any significant enmity.

Pet: Aged Angus

Fight > Scissor Guard (in pet enmity set) > heel, the mob still attacks me 1x after I heel pet.

next to see if pet enmity set applies to pets increase in hate when using. snarl. any good ideas on how to test?

edit:

Also, 85% -pdt for AgedAngus + Scissor Guard + Metallic body, makes him sit there for a ~long time taking 0 damage. :D though I guess since I was in Reisenjima, it would have been capped at 87.5% (forgot about the 3% from vorseal). any one ever test how much hp this stoneskin absorbs?

(just need 2% more from ankusa gloves +3 to cap it outside)
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2018-05-15 21:54:33
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Ok, this time I think i got something :D

Here's my test:

Target: Tulfaire

Bst/Blu

Cast Sheep Song (320 VE; 320 CE) (successfully landed sleep)

Use Snarl after sleep, swapping into pet enmity + gear

Cast Blank Gaze (320 VE; 320 CE)


Result: Tulfaire wakes, and attacks pet.


Pet never engaged.

With the same enmity on both spells, I expect the VE sent to pet via snarl will degrade a few ticks ahead of master. so master should be able to gain more enmity than pet with the 2nd spell. However, pet has greater enmity. This implies that equipping PetEnmity set Does infact modify the enmity pet gains thru snarl.

I did this test a few times. it consistently worked. I slept 2x tulfaire at same time, cast blank gaze on first, then jettatura (180 CE, 1020 VE) on 2nd. AFTER using snarl. They both still attacked my pet rather than me.

Is initial Enmity large enough to throw my test off?

I hope others will double check this. and I also hope its conclusive that Pet: Enmity + gear is a huge boon to snarl.

I think this really opens good options for bst pet tanking. I was not yet casting any blu magic in my master, enmity+ gear. but I think it means enmity sent to pet can be modified 2x.

cast spell in enmity + gear, and its modified, then snarl, and its modified by pet enmity gear again.

Should be able to stack significant enmity on bst pet.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2018-05-16 09:55:59
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I need to get duration for all the pet buff moves.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2018-05-16 13:07:37
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Is Bubble Curtain MDT- or MDB ?

I know description says -50% MDT but just curious if it will stack w/ gear or if its separate calculation.

Looks like Henry is better than Angus by a few hp. strange
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By clearlyamule 2018-05-16 13:22:27
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Interesting info on pet enmity. Might need another person to get more precise info.

Pretty sure there was some duration stuff on here and over on bg wiki.

bubble curtain is mdt and stacks with various dts. Back before nerfs it was used to magic tank stuff sometimes.

No idea on stoneskin potency
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