Killer Instinct: The Beastmaster Compendium

Everyone has different uses for pets, but I specifically remember soloing with Vickie and doing Decimation > Sweeping Gouge > Decimation > Decimation. When Sweeping Gouge was down, I used Smash Axe instead. Apex mobs died from that chain generally.

Niche but its also haste that cant be wrote over by slow

Two great examples of situational uses!

I think the point remains that I don't see Vickie as a "go to" pet, as was the original prompt. More for niche situations. As a default situation, you're usually able to cap haste just fine without her, and you have better def- options.

But yeah, lots of pets have some specific situational use, have a move that works well as SC given your other weapons, etc. I definitely think that kind of esoteric stuff is part of what's so fun about BST.

To be fair, I don't think most of the pets on your list would be considered "go to pets" either. You could reasonably argue that for endgame, you're only ever really asked to bring arthur or the leech for tp drainkiss. I don't know of anyone who's asked to bring along Patrick or Patrice for anything nowadays, though they serve a pretty cool role in their respective rights. The OP also listing Randy wouldn't make my list of "go to pets" either, since I haven't pulled him out for anything in years in a group.

I think we are talking about situational uses at this point, so the pets mentioned could be considered for that use.

You could also reasonably argue that for endgame, you're rarely ever asked to bring BST. And yes, if you are, it's probably one of two niches:
1) Arthur (most likely for HP down on Odyssey NMs, but Def- is also the most practical party contribution for most group situations with mobs that live for any decent length of time)
2) Leech - for very specific TP denial strategies

However, I suspect a lot of BST players are like me in that they may use the job more in situations outside of typical endgame party content.

In my most commonly used tier, I only included three other pets aside from the aforementioned slug and leech:
- Bouncing Bertha is still my most commonly used pet overall, as I do a decent amount of Mythic stuff and Omen on BST. Bertha's pretty solid as a general DD pet too.
- Gaston is in my list mainly due to that being my go-to in Dyna. YMMV, but that's a significant enough use to make my list.
- Zhivago is maybe one that I sometimes use just because I want to mix things up a bit, but it has good abilities and SC utility. I find it useful for stuff like Apex mobs.

I kinda see Randy being somewhat worthwhile to note just due to cost. Cheap NPC jugs always have a place, I'm not using Call Beast on something like a Swooping Zhivago jug, so if Bestial Loyalty timer's down it's generally gonna be either Arthur or Randy. And sometimes Randy is preferable if not getting much out of Arthur in places where mobs die fast regardless of whether you tag them with defense down.

That's about where I draw my line between more common use cases, and the more niche next tier down where I stick pets like lizard, slime, hippogryph, crab, maybe sheep - which have legitimate occasional uses. Anything beyond that is quite rare for me to pull out, aside from just wanting to mess around for some variety.

Cricket I think is the most damaging phys AOE in the game, but for anything that matters you have to forego regular buffs and use pet ones instead which means they don't play well with others. Shame.

Do a pet Dynamis Jeuno sometime though, hella fun and you get to see big numbers. One BST with Arthur, another BST with Bertha, a GEO and COR...

I actually sort of enjoy doing Einherjar on BST, of course with Bouncing Bertha. My dream is to get a lucky Einherjar run where the boss spawns on first wave, and kill EVERYTHING in the zone with a single Tegmina Buffet.

My record is two moves.

They really need to make Barataria Ring include BST, SMN, and PUP so they can sacrifice their sub to do their own roll(1).

60 cap ballista
cc for def water aoe and phsyical dmg

tiger can self sc and movement speed + para

lizard for silence or aoe fire

eft is the go to for poison aoe phsyical stun and dispel

funger can be used for blind but almost never gets used

rabbit cure is AoE so 1 or 2 wild carrot can change the entire game around if losing to winning in ballista when each party has gathered
bst/pld is most casting cure and protect so pulling the rabbit out quickly to curaga really gets a lot done

for 119 gameplay
Daring Roland save fantod to volley hoof can easily make 99k +99k light on most targets

heraldhenry can help with the def boost on more difficult fights
i've used on provenance watcher

bertha for phsyical aoe does great on 75 content

jovialedwin i've used on byakko to burst darkness

Rhyming Shizuna is a ton of fun for botolus rex
using charge and chop with rage up for high sc damage and spamming smash for stun lock with aymur

generousarthur probably the most used for me when exping or just doing random things


usually generous if not then rhyming shizuna or daring roland
if i'm playing bst/pld on something like watcher or byakko or something around that lvl 140ish then a crab for the def boost

if not one of the first 3 listed
generous rhyimg or daring

charm pets worth mentioning hecteyes in krt and crabs in bibiki fighting dhalmel in bay and bogy or worms in krt

FYI, fatso works like a charm in this month ambu

So I got to thinking about BST a little bit last night and how underutilized it is. Was in a group the other day where it came up how useless some other jobs besides the main DDs were (this tired nonsense discussion again >.>). Tried thinking of a good scenario to use BST on, and realized how phenomenal of a DD partner it is with a MNK. MNK has Penance(Inhibit TP) which slows any Enemy TP gain to a grinding halt, along with also feeding incredibly low TP to the enemy itself due to native high Subtle Blow. BST can cap Subtle Blow fairly easily itself, on top of adding Fatso Fargann for TP Drainkiss (the pet is not ilvl, so will likely miss most melee attacks anyways, feeding less tp overall). Between MNK + BST combination, you can pretty much shut down most boss TP moves entirely, which is unique. Your DPS will be lower, but you could experiment with more interesting group comps due to not needing a pure healer to cover the TP move spam from most bosses.

Looked at Tandem Blow page, noticed it gives 15 Subtle Blow II, so BST can get close to cap Subtle Blow II with just a Sherida Earring, so that's super easy. Does it get any other SBII pieces? Checked the front page and realized there is no BST Subtle Blow set! (Maybe I missed it, what's up Falkirk!!!). Even searched this website's itemsets, nobody has made a BST Subtle Blow set yet?

Threw one together, top is for /nin. Both account for native subtle blow traits.

ItemSet 397146

ItemSet 397147

Offer suggestions (Emicho Hands are jank as hell in 2024, but needed DW for /dnc)

H2H + Axe can do a 3-step double light with Smite > mistral/decimation > smite, so you have options with ranked Ikenga's Axe or Dolichenus to multi-step.

IDK, just brainstorming two jobs that I really enjoy but don't ever see anybody using much nor pairing together. I'd love to see this kind of team in something like Sortie.

What about subbing mnk?
You could make use of lolFencer

Ive always been confused about SB and SB II,but technically one could go over 50% with the two of them combined?

Cap for each one is 50%, cap combined is 75%.

Same with PDT II, MDT II, cap for each is 50%, cap combined is 87.5%

Same with Cure Potency II, cap for each is 50%, cap combined is 80%

Same with Blood Pact Recast II & III, cap for each is 15% (kinda 10% for BPR3 but technically who can really tell?!), cap combined is 40.

Ok, now i want to try and see if bst can get to 75% without swinging once ever 17 minutes

Edit: oh, i forgot about Pangu

Re edit: ok, it is extremely easy to get to 75% actually, only with pangu, sherida, 2x Chirich and Ternion with /nin you sit at 74% lol

I was trying to avoid including Pangu path B for the sake of salvaging as much DPS as possible. But yes, you could hit cap with it, also with siren's favor.

wtf u still playing XD

Pangu B feels like a particularly bad idea if you're keeping a pet engaged for Tandem Blow, since you feed substantially less TP with SB+70 (SBII+20 from Tandem Blow and Sherida) than you do with a SB+75 from a B path Su5 weapon, due to the many additional TP-generating hits from Follow-up Attack +50%.

And for hitting the Subtle Blow I cap (SB+50), don't forget about Auspice and pester your WHMs to actually use it in low TP feed scenarios where it won't be dispelled! SB+10 base spell, but increases dramatically to SB+25/27/29 with WHM Empy +1/+2/+3 feet.
Meaning that, if you're /NIN (SB+15) and are getting Auspice from a WHM with Empy+1 or better feet (SB+25~29), you can hit the non-Pangu BST maximum of SB+70 with only a Sherida Earring and a single Chirich Ring +1.

If no Auspice, an ideal set is probably something like:
SB+15 - /NIN trait
SB+20 - 2x Chirich Ring +1
SB+15 - Gleti's Breeches R30
SBII+5 - Sherida Earring
SBII+15 - Tandem Blow
------
SB+70

If no Gleti's Breeches R30, you can still get SB+8 from R15 or SB+10 from R20. So, could cap with those and one other piece. Say, Gleti R20 and a Dignitary's Earring (SB+5).

Some other solid possibilities:
- Sacro Breastplate for SB+15
- Bathy Choker+1 for SB+10/+11, though I find the neck slot a bit of an uncomfortable sacrifice
- Ternion Dagger +1 has SB+9
- Bastok Volte set has SB on each piece (SB+10 body, +8 legs, +6 the other 3 pieces)
- If you happen to have Fickblix's Ring, that has SB+10


Personally, I'd probably ditch Emicho hands and Eabani, and just go with my usual DW+10 cape and 5/5 Malignance on /NIN (1 under cap is fine). Or if you feel like you need to /DNC, DW+10 cape and Reiki Yotai (and going 1 DW over) might be preferable.

Deliberately made the set without Auspice since that's not a given.


Top set is /nin, doesn't use either Emicho hands or Eabani, and the cape is DW+10. Are you talking about WITH Auspice or WITHOUT Auspice? Because dropping Gleti's Breeches for Malignance doesn't cap you at 50 without Auspice.

I'm guessing if its not a math error its assuming haste samba is kept active, as you only need 9 DW with /dnc under /dnc samba at capped haste. Though this could hurt your theoretical mnk a bit since iirc unless they're running GH they're hitting pretty close to delay cap already at max haste, could maybe shuffle some slots around to compensate if its being kept up fulltime

Yes, but I find it's always good to remind people (not you) about Auspice because it's overlooked frequently, and having a WHM in party in a low TP feed scenario is very common.

If you're relying on low TP feed DDs to do all your damage, Auspice provides a pretty major offensive buff by letting those DDs use less slots for SB gear. BST is a great example, needing only one piece, probably the already useful Chirich Ring +1, to hit Subtle Blow I cap if getting Auspice. So, bringing a WHM is very compelling for this already niche situation and I'd always try to get it if reasonably possible.



I gave several options for other places to get SB, which are going to vary quite a bit by player - in particular, based on what augment rank people have for Gleti's Breeches (I'm not assuming everyone running around with R30), or whether you have Volte SB pieces. Mix and match to hit cap based on what you have available.

I don't really see why you'd want to go /DNC over /NIN, but if you did, maybe something like this (capped SB1, capped DW, capped haste):
ItemSet 397155

But obviously, there are a lot of reasonable alternatives. I'd prefer the above over the defensive liability of Emicho hands though.

Ternion Dagger +1 offhand is a great option to keep in mind too, when we're showing sets without weapons. Another SB+9 from weapon slot if you go for that.

Is it? Idk, I kind of see niche setups with tp denial as less of a reason to use WHM, since you're not going to typically taking heavy damage from AOEs. That drastically cuts down on your need for significant healing. I was thinking RDM or SMN might pair better with BST+MNK since they offer a bit more utility in these off-norm setups to where minor healing can be covered by either of them (Thinking Curing Conduit, Spot healing from RDM etc). I specifically didn't include Auspice buff for this reason, but YMMW. Definitely drop a bit of Subtle Blow if you have one for better dps.


You don't? /NIN doesn't offer anything really useful anymore in modern endgame from my perspective. Everything wipes shadows with spells/aoe tp-like melee attacks, and you get what, 5 more subtle blow, 3 shadows and 10 more DW, seems like not enough of a bonus anymore. I feel like just wearing better defensive/hybrid gear is easier than recasting shadows. If I were to come BST to something like Segs or Sortie, I'd absolutely sub DNC over NIN (hypothetically speaking, of course).

The comparison between subs isn't even close imho:


Ninja
Dual Wield III (25%)
Subtle Blow (15%)
Utsusemi: Ichi, Utsusemi: Ni
Monomi: Ichi, Tonko: Ni

Dancer
Dual Wield II (15%)
Accuracy Bonus (+10)
Skillchain Bonus (8%)
Subtle Blow (10%)
Access to Drain Samba II, Haste Samba,
Quickstep, Box Step, Animated Flourish,
Curing Waltz III, Healing Waltz,
Violent Flourish, Spectral Jig, Chocobo Jig

I thought about Sacro Breastplate (+15 is huge in body slot), but didn't like the lower acc. But a good alternative for sure. I do like that option instead of Emicho hands, though I assume that's with Haste Samba to cover the DW deficiency (or my math is wrong)

Couple other options:

If you feel there may be danger of taking damage, here's a BST/NIN DT-50% and high Meva set with Pangu C (not B). DT-5% on back (or PDT-10% works fine).
ItemSet 397156

Or, maybe a no-subjob set with good DT/MEva/SB (need an extra piece to cap SB if not R30 Gleti legs AND no Auspice, maybe a Volte feet - though I'd prob be fine with Gleti R25 and SB+49 total):
ItemSet 397157

Another interesting consideration is mainhand weapon, specifically whether or not to use Aymur for better pet TP Bonus (i.e., stronger TP Drainkiss in a TP reduction strat) but also feed more TP through extra hits, assuming using AM3. If you're getting close to the line of feeding too much TP, might just want to stick with AM1/AM2 to be safe. Or of course, a different mainhand weapon entirely. Dolichenus or Pangu C (if the defensive stats matter/there's AoE) would probably be the first options I'd look at. But maybe a Guttler or Tri-Edge is worth considering too.


WHM is still a common healer, at the very least it is worth the Auspice reminder when talking about TP denial strats. And you don't just bring WHM for Curaga - you're also indirectly increasing DPS by letting all of your DDs use better DD gear instead of having to use valuable slots to make up 25 or more Subtle Blow. You get Boost spells. You get some other non-Curaga defensive benefits like cureskin for the tank, WHM-strength barspells, better status removal (especially if dealing with AoE enfeebles).

Maybe there's a situation where you are OK giving those perks up and want to replace the WHM with something like a RDM for 1 tier better Dia and RDM enfeebles while also serving as main healer. Or maybe a SCH for Embrava and Storms. But it's certainly not that crazy to think you might have a WHM healer for a low TP fight. All I'm saying is that people should consider that possibility and probably have alternate SB sets to account for whether or not you're getting Auspice.

Also keep in mind that Auspice is a 55WHM spell, so accessible to ML30+ jobs using /WHM for the more modest SB+10 (no WHM empy feet).


The 10DW alone is usually enough of a bonus to make my decision to go /NIN over /DNC. Shadows and extra SB are gravy.

/DNC doesn't exactly give a ton either. Its most compelling point for me is Box Step, but tons of JA delay and spending TP for subjob strength steps (1 tier at a time without Presto) is somewhat of a hard sell.

Skillchain Bonus is usually minor, and requires that you're performing AND closing SCs - which is less frequent on BST since you will prefer the stronger WS (i.e., probably your partner) to close. Though it's something if doing a 3-step with BST in the 2nd position with Decimation/Mistral like your BST+MNK example.

Haste Samba is extremely YMMV based on setup and other jobs.

There's almost no chance I would be wanting to use my TP for Waltzes on a difficult TP denial fight. You don't have a healer?

Chocobo Jig is irrelevant in any event where movement speed really matters (since you'd surely have Bolter's Roll in something like Sortie). Spectral Jig has plenty of alternatives, including NIN's spells (or just use items or get sneak from a mage)

One further consideration:

The reason Tandem Blow even exists is likely to mitigate the fact that BST feeds more TP than most jobs when a pet is engaged (since it's both the master AND pet giving TP to your target). Somewhat of a similar rationale for B path Su4/5 weapons giving SBII, since those weapons would otherwise generate substantially more mob TP than most choices due to the hefty amount of FUA.

With that being the case, the only real justification I see for employing a BST to actually melee in a TP reduction setup is if you are also using leech pet for TP Drainkiss, and comfortable that the mob TP removal from that (and any other TP denial moves like Mewing, BLU spells, etc.) is satisfactory to counteract the fact that something like a SB+70 BST with pet is giving the mob more TP than a SB+70 Samurai or whatever other job, while also probably doing significantly less damage. And it's much harder to justify using BST if any other pet besides the leech is out and engaged.

Ignoring MNK for a moment (the undisputed king of TP denial), if you care about maximizing damage from your SB DD(s) that are actually meleeing, you are probably better off using a different job like a SAM WAR DRK DRG DNC. All of those jobs have the same SBII+70 (or better) sets too, generate less mob TP that BST+pet melee, and do more damage with significantly stronger WS. Some of those jobs can also reduce TP feed even further with other TP generation methods like Meditate from SAM or /SAM. Or a DNC can get SB+75 (SBII gear: Gleti's Knife and Breeches + Sherida Earring) plus comes with the valuable tools of Reverse Flourish/No Foot Rise for zero TP feed, much bigger spike damage weaponskills, and valuable Step lv10 debuffs.

That's a big part of why I have not tended to care about BST melee Subtle Blow sets - if I am in a TP reduction fight on BST, I'm usually not engaging at all and just using TP Drainkiss, and letting another more efficient DD do the actual hitting the mob part. Why add unnecessary additional risk of triggering a move when other jobs can do the same thing, but better than BST?

If you do decide you really must use Tandem Blow on a TP denial fight, so that you and a pet are hitting the mob:
You probably want to intentionally gimp the pet's melee accuracy from gear/food as much as you reasonably can, so it hits the enemy as infrequently as possible. Meaning not choosing TP gear like Crepuscular Earring, JSE ear or neck, Gleti's pieces (with the exception of legs), Agwu's Axe or other weapons with pet acc stats, JSE mantle with Pet:Acc, or whatever other Pet:Acc pieces you may be considering.

Prob also worth noting that BST also has the ability to add some DPS with reduced risk by idling in Regain gear (Gleti's is great for that), getting Tactician's Roll, etc. - and then just wade in to WS when you have TP, and otherwise stand back. Not the worst approach to just TP Drainkiss when you can, and fire off a WS after that move once you get enough from your idle regain. Not that jobs like DRG DNC THF can't also use a similar approach, but good to remember for all of them in that kind of fight.

IDK, the more I think about it, there are plenty of good reasons BST is rarely used to melee for low TP feed fights. It has a place there, sure - but IMO that's more to remain un-engaged and just use TP Drainkiss.

That's why I said in initial post:



No, that was the entire premise of my original post:


The pairing of Inhibit TP (Penance), Low TP feed (MNK and a subtle blow BST) and TP denial (Leech Pet), along with the desire to play less meta jobs. That was the motivation here.

if I am in a TP reduction fight on BST, I'm usually not engaging at all and just using TP Drainkiss, and letting another more efficient DD do the actual hitting the mob part. Why add unnecessary additional risk of triggering a move when other jobs can do the same thing, but better than BST?

Because you aren't playing BST. I'm not talking about a normal TP reduction setup with stronger DDs, but different ones. Also, this month's ambuscade, BST can melee + suck at the same time (setting myself up for this joke xD), they aren't mutually exclusive. It's not a matter of what jobs can do it better, moreso a desire to play jobs in unconventional setups. Reason why I mentioned you can drop WHM in such a setup since your risk factor goes way down if TP moves aren't going up. Maybe DPS goes down a little, but that's okay because threat goes down a lot.

I think the main reason why people don't use MNK and BST for slower/controlled fights is because everyone always sees things through the lens of maximum damage, fastest possible outcome, regardless of risk. Also, people don't play BST SMN PUP - they are constantly compared to peer jobs (other dps or support roles), which is why you can almost never find good ones when you need them for content. Most people's lack of appreciation for the utility of the "lesser" jobs is due to inexperience with good ones. Most people had no idea what Corrosive/Purulent Ooze was before people started mentioning the former was unresistable or that the latter could use it on Dynamis bosses and knock off like 2m health instantly. Same with reaving wind/feather tickle. People don't use MNKs because SAM WAR DRK is "Stronger", but never consider the safety afforded to MNK. DNC would still hold low meta relevance if not for it being in a primary Aminon Strategy; players just flock to the easiest/simplest/most repeatable strat and only consider that without regard to any other.

Best way to help more players appreciate other jobs is to use them more and show what they can do, not say "x job can do it better, why bother with y".

Just look at this experience from an absurdly good SMN on how he uses it in modern endgame :


This is what made me want to level SMN

So now i want to go and duo odin VD as bst. Let's sub rdm and pray the gods that silence lands lol.
No but seriously, i'd love to try haha

Considering it usually doesn't land on first cast as a ML50 RDM with BiS gear, I wouldn't hold my breath for it to land easily as BST/RDM

I've done a lot of VD odin with 5-6 man setup:
Mnk blu brd rdm cor, silence then tickle+penance

I'm sure bst would work just as well

5-6 min clears and no SP get your rings

I think you missed they point where they said “just sub rdm and hope for the best”. Theres a stark difference between rdm/xxx casting silence and bst/rdm casting silence.

So I may have missed the info somewhere, but does pet Macc correspond to a 1:1 ratio to their Acc in check param?
I just recently got the Stage 3 BST axe and the difference in pet level + is massive for Acc it seems, so wondering if the Lv 1+ and 25 macc would beat let's say other options with a base +50.

Also for those wondering:
Top checkparam was with 0 pet lvl+ outside of calling pet at max level with merits/relic gloves. Each checkparam was 1 extra level+