Gunmen Storm Office Of Satirical Magazine In Paris |
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Gunmen storm office of satirical magazine in Paris
Gunmen storm office of satirical magazine in Paris
Blazed1979 said: » What does the west do after the terrorist attack? They publish more of them. There is NO respect. The west does not recognize Islam or Muslims as equals. I can't think of a single religion that says: "I welcome your caricatures and mockery of my religion. Please give me more!" Religion, like many other human creations, is regularly lambasted and satired in Western culture.
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Bahamut.Milamber said: » Blazed1979 said: » Quote: e-read what I responded to and my response. Was I implying any of those to examples in this particular situation (I love how you didn't repeat the whistleblower question since it doesn't fit your narrative)? No, I was not. The question I answered was basically why do or say something that could potentially cause a violent reaction. All of my above examples can do that but people still do them, for a variety of reasons. Your question of "why" answers itself. It is because of the "why" that anyone should do anything. Quote: As to the rest of your rant: I think Muslims should learn to take an freaking joke. Maybe learn to laugh or ask why people are poking fun. Example: The Danish cartoons that pissed off the Islamic world was meant to include Muslims in the Danish culture. Danish humor is making fun of friends, if they don't like you they won't poke fun or joke with you. You don't think very well then because you just grouped at least a 5th of the world's inhabitants that are spread across all continents and speak hundreds of different languages. But please continue to see things through your subjective reality and complain when others do the same. Quote: Obviously based on many previous threads insulting people is ok with you, just not when people insult Islam. How many times on this website have you referred to women as ***, ***, implied they all be crazy, are less intelligent then men, are good only in the kitchen or bed, or some other crap of I-hate-women-who-don't-want-me-because-feminist? How many times have you and several others on this site bitched about females and made sexist jokes? You haven't been banned, your life hasn't been threatened, and you are still alive. If you think the fastest way to exit a debate is to insult someone that must mean you don't debate much because it seems to be your primary debate method when dealing with topics or people you hold in low regard. I'm actually happily married and have children. You might be too obtuse to realize that when I go off character and assume the "thug, pimp, playa" tone I am actually poking fun at that kind of man and belittling him. I'm def not pro feminist or a male apologist though. Can you comprehend that I can be a proud hetrosexual male and still be respectful to women without being a feminist cheerboy? Exiting a debate and ending doesn't mean the exchange ends. It just means it stops being a debate and starts being a come back contest. I'm also human and can get offended by certain stereotypes that push me buttons which then break open the internal chimp's cage. Back on topic, those cartoons were aimed at Muslims knowing full well how Muslims would react. If I call a man a *** it isn't going to have the same effect as calling a woman one. Call me a *** if you like, but lets have someone call you one and then gauge the reaction. (I'm not calling you one) I'm simply demonstrating that communication of any kind needs to take into account the audience. Those cartoons were aimed at muslims. What does the west do after the terrorist attack? They publish more of them. There is NO respect. The west does not recognize Islam or Muslims as equals. I did indeed. If it had stayed up long enough for people to read and reread it there were some obvious stereotypes going on. Ironic, it was satire that got censored. Bahamut.Milamber said: » Blazed1979 said: » What does the west do after the terrorist attack? They publish more of them. There is NO respect. The west does not recognize Islam or Muslims as equals. I can't think of a single religion that says: "I welcome your caricatures and mockery of my religion. Please give me more!" Religion, like many other human creations, is regularly lambasted and satired in Western culture. Treated as equals my ***. I don't mean to be rude, but there's a difference between legal equality and societal equality.
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Asura.Ccl said: » us= France Blazed1979 said: » But there's a rather large difference between two individuals conversing over something and a public media outlet or publication influencing the public's opinion on matters that will in the medium to long term have tangible and observable implications on a group or groups of people. Nice job, though, advocating that freedom of speech needs to be curtailed in case someone might actually hear/read it and think for 1/10th of a second. That's some top-notch, class-A cognitive dissonance, Johnny. Here's an idea: if you don't want to be ridiculed for your stupid/crazy beliefs, then don't let other people know about them.
It's really that simple. Blazed1979 said: » Bahamut.Milamber said: » Blazed1979 said: » What does the west do after the terrorist attack? They publish more of them. There is NO respect. The west does not recognize Islam or Muslims as equals. I can't think of a single religion that says: "I welcome your caricatures and mockery of my religion. Please give me more!" Religion, like many other human creations, is regularly lambasted and satired in Western culture. Treated as equals my ***. I don't mean to be rude, but there's a difference between legal equality and societal equality.
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Charlie Hebdo= Making risk of attack on our soil for no other reason than making profit and I disagree with my security being put in jeopardy with no benefit because some people wanted to make money.
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Asura.Ccl said: » Charlie Hebdo= Making risk of attack on our soil for no other reason than making profit and I disagree with my security being put in jeopardy with no benefit because some people wanted to make money. And they didn't ask to be shot at. They didn't encourage violence. They didn't incite the attack. The lunatics responsible for Charlie Hebdo had been making these kinds of attacks and plans for years. If what you're saying is that you're upset because it happened in a country with a free press, move to China. They strangle anything that resembles freedom there, so when you get shot during a riot, you can at least feel sure that it was because the government is full of *** instead of the citizenry.
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And this go back to my first question:
Why are we making fun of people for zero benefit on our side at the risk of cause attack on our soil? And no making the whole muslim world isn't a benefit. Anyway bed time! edit: Freedom of speech and liberty of press is controlled in our country too, I'm pretty sure it should be easy to find about Sine(who got fired from Charli Hebdo for drawing Sarkozy son) and Dieudonne who got forbidden his show for antisemitic joke.
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Shiva.Onorgul said: » Asura.Ccl said: » us= France Blazed1979 said: » But there's a rather large difference between two individuals conversing over something and a public media outlet or publication influencing the public's opinion on matters that will in the medium to long term have tangible and observable implications on a group or groups of people. Nice job, though, advocating that freedom of speech needs to be curtailed in case someone might actually hear/read it and think for 1/10th of a second. That's some top-notch, class-A cognitive dissonance, Johnny. I'm not religious first of all. Its funny how you classify me as such because my values and beliefs differ from yours. And I never actually said censor Charlie Hebdo. They're free to post and publish what they like, but isn't it my right to disagree with it and criticize it, question their motives? You're not so bright yourself. Bahamut.Milamber said: » Blazed1979 said: » Bahamut.Milamber said: » Blazed1979 said: » What does the west do after the terrorist attack? They publish more of them. There is NO respect. The west does not recognize Islam or Muslims as equals. I can't think of a single religion that says: "I welcome your caricatures and mockery of my religion. Please give me more!" Religion, like many other human creations, is regularly lambasted and satired in Western culture. Treated as equals my ***. I don't mean to be rude, but there's a difference between legal equality and societal equality. There most certainly is. I can attest to that. I can think of at least 10 different major hollywood productions that poke at Jesus and a ton of TV shows that poke at Jews. Its not that I don't see your point Milibar, its that you are refusing to see mine is not based on if it is right or wrong, but that at the current time, with the current global geopolitical situation such actions serve to further wedge differences between peoples and empower fundementalists on BOTH SIDES, not just ours, instead of allowing for a climate of progress and discourse. I said at the start of this thread, we have A LOT of work to do in the muslim world so that entities such as ISIS never get a foothold at all. I'll take that gladly. Its being more honest and objective than 99% of the people on these forums who really feel no accountability or responsibility for civility.  something something victim blaming, something something nonviolent freedom also shame that someone as clearly intellectual as kara has to join the feminist victim circle jerk instead of arguing on the merits of her argument Blazed1979 said: » Quote: As to the rest of your rant: I think Muslims should learn to take an freaking joke. Maybe learn to laugh or ask why people are poking fun. Example: The Danish cartoons that pissed off the Islamic world was meant to include Muslims in the Danish culture. Danish humor is making fun of friends, if they don't like you they won't poke fun or joke with you. You don't think very well then because you just grouped at least a 5th of the world's inhabitants that are spread across all continents and speak hundreds of different languages. But please continue to see things through your subjective reality and complain when others do the same. You and Zeig are the ones claiming it insulted all Muslims. Blazed1979 said: » Free Speech? lol... yeah its perfectly fine to insult almost 2 billion people but go anywhere near criticizing Israel and you can now get arrested.. Awesome! By agreeing with your assertion I'm agreeing with your version of reality. Yes, it is very subjective, unless you no longer believe that this has insulted all Muslims? Quote: Quote: Obviously based on many previous threads insulting people is ok with you, just not when people insult Islam. How many times on this website have you referred to women as ***, ***, implied they all be crazy, are less intelligent then men, are good only in the kitchen or bed, or some other crap of I-hate-women-who-don't-want-me-because-feminist? How many times have you and several others on this site bitched about females and made sexist jokes? You haven't been banned, your life hasn't been threatened, and you are still alive. If you think the fastest way to exit a debate is to insult someone that must mean you don't debate much because it seems to be your primary debate method when dealing with topics or people you hold in low regard. I'm actually happily married and have children. You might be too obtuse to realize that when I go off character and assume the "thug, pimp, playa" tone I am actually poking fun at that kind of man and belittling him. I'm def not pro feminist or a male apologist though. Can you comprehend that I can be a proud hetrosexual male and still be respectful to women without being a feminist cheerboy? It's not ok to insult a faith by making a cartoon because.......well because Blazed said so. What you are is a hypocrite. (Paraphrased quotes below) Blazed: "It's insulting to draw the prophet, you should respect that!" Blazed: "Dude, you know women have an expiration date after 35 yo, even though hollywood says otherwise." "I've been rejected by prime women who go for beta and I don't know why because I am AWESOME...I even have an entourage!" Quote: Back on topic, those cartoons were aimed at Muslims knowing full well how Muslims would react. If I call a man a *** it isn't going to have the same effect as calling a woman one. Call me a *** if you like, but lets have someone call you one and then gauge the reaction. (I'm not calling you one) I'm simply demonstrating that communication of any kind needs to take into account the audience. Those cartoons were aimed at muslims. What does the west do after the terrorist attack? They publish more of them. There is NO respect. The west does not recognize Islam or Muslims as equals. You aren't even trying to look at cultural differences or figure out what point they were trying to make. The cartoons after the attack were not meant to insult, but of course they did because..... seems to be fill in the blank with your own opinion at this point rather than what the editor stated.
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Asura.Ccl said: » And this go back to my first question: Blazed1979 said: » And I never actually said censor Charlie Hebdo. They're free to post and publish what they like, but isn't it my right to disagree with it and criticize it, question their motives? If Charlie Hebdo was inciting violence by saying, "Let's kill all the Muslims," then I'd probably side with you and Ccl. Especially if they provided detailed instructions in how to do so. Mocking Islam because it is plagued with outspoken and violent idiots, particularly idiots who defy their own beliefs, is quite a different scenario. Charlie Hebdo doesn't regularly have much to say about Buddhists given that religion doesn't make a nuisance of themselves, so if we're going to play the blame game, Charlie Hebdo is just reacting to prior stimulus. They're the effect, not the cause. Bahamut.Kara said: » Blazed1979 said: » Quote: As to the rest of your rant: I think Muslims should learn to take an freaking joke. Maybe learn to laugh or ask why people are poking fun. Example: The Danish cartoons that pissed off the Islamic world was meant to include Muslims in the Danish culture. Danish humor is making fun of friends, if they don't like you they won't poke fun or joke with you. You don't think very well then because you just grouped at least a 5th of the world's inhabitants that are spread across all continents and speak hundreds of different languages. But please continue to see things through your subjective reality and complain when others do the same. You and Zeig are the ones claiming it insulted all Muslims. Blazed1979 said: » Free Speech? lol... yeah its perfectly fine to insult almost 2 billion people but go anywhere near criticizing Israel and you can now get arrested.. Awesome! By agreeing with your assertion I'm agreeing with your version of reality. Yes, it is very subjective, unless you no longer believe that this has insulted all Muslims? Quote: Quote: Obviously based on many previous threads insulting people is ok with you, just not when people insult Islam. How many times on this website have you referred to women as ***, ***, implied they all be crazy, are less intelligent then men, are good only in the kitchen or bed, or some other crap of I-hate-women-who-don't-want-me-because-feminist? How many times have you and several others on this site bitched about females and made sexist jokes? You haven't been banned, your life hasn't been threatened, and you are still alive. If you think the fastest way to exit a debate is to insult someone that must mean you don't debate much because it seems to be your primary debate method when dealing with topics or people you hold in low regard. I'm actually happily married and have children. You might be too obtuse to realize that when I go off character and assume the "thug, pimp, playa" tone I am actually poking fun at that kind of man and belittling him. I'm def not pro feminist or a male apologist though. Can you comprehend that I can be a proud hetrosexual male and still be respectful to women without being a feminist cheerboy? It's not ok to insult a faith by making a cartoon because.......well because Blazed said so. What you are is a hypocrite. (Paraphrased quotes below) Blazed: "It's insulting to draw the prophet, you should respect that!" Blazed: "Dude, you know women have an expiration date after 35 yo, even though hollywood says otherwise." "I've been rejected by prime women who go for beta and I don't know why because I am AWESOME...I even have an entourage!" Quote: Back on topic, those cartoons were aimed at Muslims knowing full well how Muslims would react. If I call a man a *** it isn't going to have the same effect as calling a woman one. Call me a *** if you like, but lets have someone call you one and then gauge the reaction. (I'm not calling you one) I'm simply demonstrating that communication of any kind needs to take into account the audience. Those cartoons were aimed at muslims. What does the west do after the terrorist attack? They publish more of them. There is NO respect. The west does not recognize Islam or Muslims as equals. You aren't even trying to look at cultural differences or figure out what point they were trying to make. The cartoons after the attack were not meant to insult, but of course they did because..... seems to be fill in the blank with your own opinion at this point rather than what the editor stated. There is either a language/culture barrier or you just are not capable of original thought. You misrepresented me in your previous post so I'm done taking you seriously. You're trying to win a point rather than try to understand. Score some points here. You probably need them to compensate for other stuff. While some would find you to be entertaining and an "intellectual" you're nothing more than a bad tape recorder that regurgitates facts without knowing what to actually do with them. Done with you. edit: In case you didn't understand the above, I'm exiting the "debate" because it is wasted on you. I can now come down to your level and start misrepresenting what you say and being very condescending. Also, your female insecurities have nothing to do with me.
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Blazed1979 said: » insecurities have nothing to do with me. pretty comical coming from a guy that can't handle a little mockery of his belief structure.
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Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: » something something victim blaming, something something nonviolent freedom also shame that someone as clearly intellectual as kara has to join the feminist victim circle jerk instead of arguing on the merits of her argument Blazed1979 said: » There is either a language/culture barrier or you just are not capable of original thought. You misrepresented me in your previous post so I'm done taking you seriously. You're trying to win a point rather than try to understand. Score some points here. You probably need them to compensate for other stuff. While some would find you to be entertaining and an "intellectual" you're nothing more than a bad tape recorder that regurgitates facts without knowing what to actually do with them. Done with you. edit: In case you didn't understand the above, I'm exiting the "debate" because it is wasted on you. I can now come down to your level and start misrepresenting what you say and being very condescending. Also, your female insecurities have nothing to do with me. Ah, paraphrasing quotes from 3 months ago offends you. Calling you out for things you said about women offends you. Cartoons with the prophet drawn offends you. Pointing out the hypocrisy offends you. Maybe you need to get out of P&R if you are so easily offended.
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Bahamut.Kara said: » Blazed1979 said: » There is either a language/culture barrier or you just are not capable of original thought. You misrepresented me in your previous post so I'm done taking you seriously. You're trying to win a point rather than try to understand. Score some points here. You probably need them to compensate for other stuff. While some would find you to be entertaining and an "intellectual" you're nothing more than a bad tape recorder that regurgitates facts without knowing what to actually do with them. Done with you. edit: In case you didn't understand the above, I'm exiting the "debate" because it is wasted on you. I can now come down to your level and start misrepresenting what you say and being very condescending. Also, your female insecurities have nothing to do with me. Ah, paraphrasing quotes from 3 months ago offends you. Calling you out for things you said about women offends you. Cartoons with the prophet drawn offends you. Pointing out the hypocrisy offends you. Maybe you need to get out of P&R if you are so easily offended. Where did I say I was offended? I can see how a sophisticated outlook on things that isn't "black or white" can be understood by someone like you to be hypocritical though. My deepest sympathies.
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Siren.Mosin said: » Blazed1979 said: » insecurities have nothing to do with me. pretty comical coming from a guy that can't handle a little mockery of his belief structure. My belief structure hasn't even been criticized let alone mocked. What are you on about? At what point have we actually talked about Islam or what my "beliefs" are comprised of? How would one mock what they do not know? If I've been mocked or offended, I've certainly missed it. Choosing to end a debate with someone can also be due to seeing no fruitful outcome from continuing with them. One doesn't need to get offended to withdraw. But I see no point in furthering it on a serious note, any more than I see any benefit from barking back at a dog. That's not to say I don't laugh at myself by barking back at dogs for fun.
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Jetackuu said: » Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: » something something victim blaming, something something nonviolent freedom also shame that someone as clearly intellectual as kara has to join the feminist victim circle jerk instead of arguing on the merits of her argument making jokes about gender = ok Making jokes about a religion = not ok It had nothing to do with feminism. If he regularly made fun/mocked/belittled men, or gay men, or lesbians, etc I would have pointed that out.
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Bahamut.Kara said: » Jetackuu said: » Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: » something something victim blaming, something something nonviolent freedom also shame that someone as clearly intellectual as kara has to join the feminist victim circle jerk instead of arguing on the merits of her argument making jokes about gender = ok Making jokes about a religion = not ok It had nothing to do with feminism. If he regularly made fun/mocked/belittled men, or gay men, or lesbians, etc I would have pointed that out. Was just making sure I didn't miss something weird. They have made similar cartoons about Christianity and Judiaism so...
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Oh now comes character assassination. I love these branding exercises, please Kara continue your " 1+1 must = ok" drivel.
I love it when people simplify things, it shows me just how remedial their internal processes are.
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Bahamut.Milamber said: » Asura.Ccl said: » I asked about doing something useless beside making people mad; now we know it will just create riot and risk attack for ZERO reward on our side so why are we still doing it ? Ok enlight me then what was the point of those drawing ?
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Asura.Ccl said: » Bahamut.Milamber said: » Asura.Ccl said: » I asked about doing something useless beside making people mad; now we know it will just create riot and risk attack for ZERO reward on our side so why are we still doing it ? Ok enlight me then what was the point of those drawing ? I just don't get how you those were supposed to make the extremist think and see things differently cause clearly it didn't work so what was the point to keep doing it ?
Asura.Ccl said: » I just don't get how you those were supposed to make the extremist think and see things differently cause clearly it didn't work so what was the point to keep doing it ? Insanity?
So many claim to appreciate science yet they keep choosing the same methodology for "progress" when the results haven't been stellar. I think deep down inside they're just fooling themselves into thinking they're democratic and believe in equal rights. As soon as they encounter cultures that are different than theirs', out goes the equality, out goes the civility, out goes the respect. Fail fail fail. I mean... how insane is it that they are demonizing a religion, of which accounts for 2% of terrorist attacks, after they hosted the bloodiest wars in all of history? give me a break lol
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Asura.Ccl said: » I just don't get how you those were supposed to make the extremist think and see things differently cause clearly it didn't work so what was the point to keep doing it ? The point is to enhance the disparity between what is said, and what is done, via a visual medium, in a way that is brief and succinct. |
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