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Man poisons dog to death with car exhaust
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3621
By Shiva.Onorgul 2015-01-07 14:07:21
In this country, people treat animals far better than humans. If an animal is homeless, killed or in dire straights, my television is flooded with commercials of how I can help feed, house, and take care of these destitute animals. Yet, I walk to the wawa and there are homeless people all over the building begging for spare change. There are some shelters here and there, but we just treat humans like dirt nowadays. Maybe in your city this is true. Not in mine.
We have neither a serious homeless animal problem nor a serious homeless person problem. Our shelters for both are crowded but there are plenty of them and they are humane. Where I live, the beggars, pan-handlers, and chronic homeless are typically people who opt to live that way. And lest someone dispute me, I know this because I've spoken to them often and they've told me their game.
As a country, we really don't leave people without a safety net. We don't need Sarah McLachlan crying at us about homeless people because we have huge and effective organizations that assist them. Go into literally any church, temple, or mosque, and ask the folks in charge what they're doing for the poor. They'll have a laundry list of ways they help and, indeed, they are helping. Everything from food and shelter to job assistance and even things we prosperous people forget, like paying to get a state ID (poor people often don't have ID, it's why voting ID laws are bad).
Animal cruelty is a terrible thing, but we take care of our own species long before worrying about puppy mills and pomeranians being chucked out of fifth storey windows.
Valefor.Sehachan
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-01-07 14:08:07
Old the one where god wasn't a pussy Sequels are always a gamble
Lakshmi.Buukki
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2015-01-07 14:08:29
Quote: Also, the Bible is one of the last things you want to cite when talking about animal cruelty.
If anything, the Bible more than defends and protects animals from cruel treatment. Unless I read your statement wrong.
Bahamut.Ravael
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-01-07 14:10:34
Quote: Also, the Bible is one of the last things you want to cite when talking about animal cruelty.
If anything, the Bible more than defends and protects animals from cruel treatment. Unless I read your statement wrong.
I think the reference was to animal sacrifice. It's no less humane than killing an animal for food given the methods they had back then, but obviously atheists would deem it unnecessary slaughter.
Lakshmi.Buukki
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2015-01-07 14:12:11
Quote: Also, the Bible is one of the last things you want to cite when talking about animal cruelty. If anything, the Bible more than defends and protects animals from cruel treatment. Unless I read your statement wrong. I think the reference was to animal sacrifice. It's no less humane than killing an animal for food given the methods they had back then, but obviously atheists would deem it unnecessary slaughter.
Thanks for clarifying.
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2015-01-07 14:12:26
Funny enough, Christians were appalled at the acts of human and animal sacrifice in Mesoamerica upon contact with the native tribes and thus used that as one reason to initiate conquest.
I mean, these people were clearly barbarians.
Bahamut.Ravael
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-01-07 14:15:59
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »Funny enough, Christians were appalled at the acts of human and animal sacrifice in Mesoamerica upon contact with the native tribes and thus used that as one reason to initiate conquest.
I mean, these people were clearly barbarians.
Yes there is some irony there, but when you look at the removal of a still-beating human heart as per the Aztec ritual, that has no parallel to anything in the Old Testament.
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3621
By Shiva.Onorgul 2015-01-07 14:17:21
Quote: Also, the Bible is one of the last things you want to cite when talking about animal cruelty.
If anything, the Bible more than defends and protects animals from cruel treatment. Unless I read your statement wrong.
I think the reference was to animal sacrifice. It's no less humane than killing an animal for food given the methods they had back then, but obviously atheists would deem it unnecessary slaughter. What if I was vegan and it had nothing to do with theism? Get down off your cross, honey.
That said, though, it's more that one really shouldn't cite a self-contradictory text. I can find passages that both support protecting animals (they're worth more than women!) and beating them to death (they're just like women!).
Bahamut.Ravael
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-01-07 14:21:16
Quote: Also, the Bible is one of the last things you want to cite when talking about animal cruelty.
If anything, the Bible more than defends and protects animals from cruel treatment. Unless I read your statement wrong.
I think the reference was to animal sacrifice. It's no less humane than killing an animal for food given the methods they had back then, but obviously atheists would deem it unnecessary slaughter. What if I was vegan and it had nothing to do with theism? Get down off your cross, honey.
That said, though, it's more that one really shouldn't cite a self-contradictory text. I can find passages that both support protecting animals (they're worth more than women!) and beating them to death (they're just like women!).
Lol, you made the comment, therefore me referencing atheists was fair. Also, provide some of these passages. I'd love to see what you're so cynically referring to.
Lakshmi.Buukki
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2015-01-07 14:21:31
Going to take my exit stage-right here if we're going into the "Bible hates women/It contradicts itself" discussion. Those discussions never amount to anything productive on the internet.
Back to dogs, and that guy who said something about police. My bad even asking Ravael.
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Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2015-01-07 14:31:59
No need for sectarian ***, killing a dog by pumping toxic gas into a crate is a deliberate act of cruelty for the lulz and disgusting against any creature human or otherwise. Much like throwing a dog off a bridge or watching one drown, it speaks volumes about your character and how you view other living creatures.
Empathy needs no religion.
Ragnarok.Nausi
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-01-07 14:59:12
I am constantly stunned how much importance people place on their pets. I bet half of you would jump into the frozen lake to save your pet but wouldn't to save a stranger.
In the end it's just a dog.
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3621
By Shiva.Onorgul 2015-01-07 15:01:14
you made the comment, therefore me referencing atheists was fair. It was an educated guess, but not guaranteed to be right. I just wanted to be clear that religion isn't necessarily the reason someone may dispute something or other said in a religious text. Anyhow, I'm not an atheist: I just don't believe in your religion, which amounts to the same thing apparently.
At any rate, if we're done dragging religion into animal cruelty, let's ask a real question:
Which is worse, illegally torturing to death an animal with a terminal condition (I presume this is why the cops have been dragging their feet) or buying a dog from a puppy mill?
The first may be audacious and terrible, but it's an isolated incident. The other encourages the creation of and mass maltreatment of many, many animals.
And all those folks who get up in arms when someone mentions a pit bull or other dog with a bad reputation, those are the people implicitly supporting mills because they think that a pure rottweiler is more important than the mutt puppies their neighbor's *** just birthed. Even if you buy from a breeder, it still indicates that there's an exploitable market for less savvy or concerned consumers.
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3621
By Shiva.Onorgul 2015-01-07 15:02:18
I bet half of you would jump into the frozen lake to save your pet but wouldn't to save a stranger. Just you. This is classic projection. Personally, I'd think twice before risking my life for a labrador, but I wouldn't hesitate if I saw a human drowning.
Bahamut.Ravael
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-01-07 15:04:59
It was an educated guess, but not guaranteed to be right. I just wanted to be clear that religion isn't necessarily the reason someone may dispute something or other said in a religious text. Anyhow, I'm not an atheist: I just don't believe in your religion, which amounts to the same thing apparently.
Sorry, I may have had my wires crossed in my memory banks. Anywho, I'm dropping the subject since it really isn't relevant to the thread.
Ragnarok.Nausi
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-01-07 15:07:32
I bet half of you would jump into the frozen lake to save your pet but wouldn't to save a stranger. Just you. This is classic projection. Personally, I'd think twice before risking my life for a labrador, but I wouldn't hesitate if I saw a human drowning. Classic projection? How do you know I put you in either category?
Ragnarok.Nausi
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-01-07 15:09:06
Would Nausi jump in a frozen lake to save Obama?
THAT would be a tough call. Lets make a reality TV show about it.
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Cerberus.Anjisnu
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2803
By Cerberus.Anjisnu 2015-01-07 15:10:16
I am constantly stunned how much importance people place on their pets. I bet half of you would jump into the frozen lake to save your pet but wouldn't to save a stranger.
In the end it's just a dog. Depends on the age or whether or not I'm at work *** 90% of humans never met a dog I didn't like
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3621
By Shiva.Onorgul 2015-01-07 15:10:52
It has nothing to do with me personally. People who cynically assume that no one will help anyone are generally the people who won't. It's projection onto a general population rather than a specific person.
If anything, this story kinda proves my point, too. Even though the neighbors apparently begged this *** not to kill his dog, they didn't, y'know, remove the cage or break his jaw or one of the many other things. If someone was publicly gassing a 5-year-old boy in a cage, you can be certain the perpetrator would be hauled away in a body bag.
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Lakshmi.Buukki
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2015-01-07 15:14:49
I am constantly stunned how much importance people place on their pets. I bet half of you would jump into the frozen lake to save your pet but wouldn't to save a stranger. In the end it's just a dog.
I said it earlier: we treat our dogs better than we treat each other. We will let our loved ones suffer a painful disease, barely grasping and clinging to their last breaths, just to savor a few more moments with them. But we peacefully put down our dogs when we see that their situation is irrepairable.
Not that I agree with you're analogy. I think most people wouldn't flinch to help a dying person. But we tend to place far more importance as a society on animal life than other humans. Regardless of what we may see in our own small neighborhoods.
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3621
By Shiva.Onorgul 2015-01-07 15:16:36
We will let our loved ones suffer a painful disease, barely grasping and clinging to their last breaths, just to savor a few more moments with them. Fascinating. So have you signed a DNR yet?
Valefor.Sehachan
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-01-07 15:17:24
Usual banalities from the usual suspect. No, it's not true that humans wouldn't preserve another human life, or chose an animal over a human if necessary.
Cerberus.Anjisnu
Serveur: Cerberus
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Posts: 2803
By Cerberus.Anjisnu 2015-01-07 15:18:46
If the human is not my direct family lol dog every time
Ragnarok.Nausi
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-01-07 15:19:35
But it's just a dog though, you can't murder a dog.
We will let our loved ones suffer a painful disease, barely grasping and clinging to their last breaths, just to savor a few more moments with them. But we peacefully put down our dogs when we see that their situation is irrepairable.
Difference being that we aren't stewards of other adult humans, only of our lesser pets.
Bahamut.Ravael
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-01-07 15:21:33
If the human is not my direct family lol dog every time
I wonder if you can get put in prison for that. You know, having the ability to save either a human or a dog and choosing the dog.
Ragnarok.Nausi
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-01-07 15:23:53
It has nothing to do with me personally. People who cynically assume that no one will help anyone are generally the people who won't.
I make a generalized statement adressing the greater audience and you narrow it down and make assumptions based on me.
There's the projection you're looking for...
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3621
By Shiva.Onorgul 2015-01-07 15:24:51
If the human is not my direct family lol dog every time
I wonder if you can get put in prison for that. You know, having the ability to save either a human or a dog and choosing the dog. Some places have tried Good Samaritan laws unsuccessfully. Remember the last episode of Seinfeld? Kinda based on a true story.
Cerberus.Anjisnu
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2803
By Cerberus.Anjisnu 2015-01-07 15:27:48
Cerberussomeone choosing a dog over myselfisnu said: »If the human is not my direct family lol dog every time
I wonder if you can get put in prison for that. You know, having the ability to save either a human or a dog and choosing the dog. Don't expect to see 50 so I wouldn't mind prison or some
Cerberus.Anjisnu
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2803
By Cerberus.Anjisnu 2015-01-07 15:30:23
Someone choosing the dog over me*
I actually saw this one else where. Ill post the personal response as well as the artical.
Quote: On April 14th, a Toms River resident took it upon himself to kill his dog in his driveway, in plain sight of neighbors and people that were passing by. As if it wasn't bad enough that he was killing a dog in his driveway, it was the way he killed this poor animal that made it so horrific. He placed this dog, named Mocha, in a crate, (pictured here, after the body of the dog was removed) sealed the crate so the dog had no chance of escape, hooked up the exhaust pipe from his car to the crate, and gassed the dog to death. The dog suffered and screamed in agony while her lungs and eyes burned. This is a horrifying, painful way to die, to say the least. There were several witnesses to this barbaric act, including a female neighbor that begged the man to stop. This story has been kept very quiet for the last three months but finally, word is getting out to the media as Toms River residents and concerned citizens question why wasn't this man prosecuted yet? What is taking so long to "investigate" this case, when there were witnesses and a body. What is the state agency doing that is supposed to protect animals and their rights, about this despicable crime. Enough is enough. Something needs to be done NOW.....we demand justice for Mocha. Click here for the most recent article on this case: http://www.nj.com/…/prosecutors_probe_dogs_death_by_car_exh…
This matter is currently under investigation by the Ocean County Prosecutors office. That office, as well as the offices in Toms River Township, cannot comment on the case at this time.
Source
Quote: Fumes from a car exhaust killed a dog in April and the Ocean County Prosecutor’s Office is investigating the case after local authorities decided not to press charges, officials said Thursday.
The dog’s owner allegedly hooked a line from a car’s exhaust to a "makeshift" container to euthanize the dog, Toms River Assistant Attorney Anthony Merlino said.
“The Township has decided not to take any action within its jurisdiction,” Merlino said. “There were extenuating circumstances in the investigation that led the authorities to conclude that it was not warranted in this instance.”
At the July 8 council meeting, a “handful” of people showed up with signs and one person spoke during public comment asking questions, but was told there would be no comment due to the pending investigation by the Ocean County Prosecutor’s Office, Merlino said.
Prosecutor’s office Capt. Jack Sramaty confirmed there was an investigation into someone killing their dog with exhaust fumes, but said the case is active and couldn’t provide additional details on Thursday.
Toms River police spokesman Ralph Stocco said the department was aware of the incident but Toms River Animal Control handled the investigation. Stocco said the police department was not involved in the investigation and referred questions to Merlino or the prosecutor’s office.
Monmouth County SPCA Chief Law Enforcement Officer Victor “Buddy” Amato said in general, it’s illegal to euthanize an animal using a car exhaust. Amato is not involved in the Toms River case.
“That is totally against the law,” Amato said. “You can’t just take your dog and stick it in the car, hook it up to the exhaust and gas it.”
Amato said if a person used exhaust to kill an animal in Monmouth County, they would be charged with animal cruelty. Several years ago, Amato said he charged someone in Keansburg with animal cruelty for using a car exhaust to kill a cat and was convicted.
If an animal needs to be euthanized, Amato said it should be taken to a vet to be done humanely.
“That’s why you have vets,” Amato said. “It’s definitely wrong.”
Source
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