Is Koga Really That Sick?

... and sam self sc goes past mob max hp too and they have roughly 50% more ws frequency than I do (I can't close every fudo, they do about 50 more ws than I do in an hour roughly).
Between 3 dd we attack 2-3 monsters at once so there is plenty of sam light sc's going off so don't act like they arent reaping the benefits of overkill damage as well.
I dont need to close their fudos and cor ws damage suffices enough to solo targets without sc piggybacking for merits, but when the opportunity presents itself I do.
A really good sam can pull ahead of cor by 70-80dps in woh but thats very rare and I play with jp and english player from multiple ls so i'm getting a diverse sample of dds.

People can brag about x-step light sc all they want but i'm never seeing that in most battle content.
The only reason you see it and can leverage it is because you're multiboxing an entire alliance by yourself.

Forgive me lol I don't use windower since I'm on ubuntu. But the parses that are usually posted in pt chat usually have sc damage separate. Did she say she was including SC damage into account as winning for the parse? Also she never stated she held tp lol. I've seen DP cors spam ridiculous leaden and last stand damage. I wouldn't be surprised if they could outparse sam without sc damage.

Every Samurai who has ever or will ever exist needs to read this. Any time there is more than one DD in your party, you CAN'T take credit for the skillchain damage.

That's like me trying to take credit for all of the additional damage that Angon has given to the party and adding it to my numbers.

And for God's sake, please stop using Fudo on fodder monsters that only have 1-2k hp left to pad your parse numbers. (15k Fudo to a monster with 2k hp left.. come on)

Looking at it the wrong way, you can close SC with every WS because you can take advantage of any of their openers. You gain significantly more damage than they do as a result of overkill and circumstantial bias.

you mention that a 'really good sam' can pull ahead of a cor, but if you're always the cor and you're playing it consistantly well, your 'diversity' is just a way of saying you can beat crappy sams

multiboxing an entire alliance including a maxed out COR(besides DP, but like I said that's coming soon) and maxed out kogas

gee, you don't think i might have an unbiased assessment of what results in a better output?

I agree and disagree. When you are parsing with another DD SC damage is hard to attribute to a certain player and shouldn't be added. However if you are splitting DDs (Like 1 DD is self SCing a boss, and the other is killing adds) you can obviously add in the SC damage to the player self SCing. This situation is obviously completely unfair to begin with though. Fudoing monsters at low HP can be useful beyond padding numbers also, Sam white damage is horrid right now and it can be faster to Fudo that fodder mob at 15% than swing at it a bunch.

It's a strategy that works on certain content with certain setups, if you never do that content or use those setups obviously you will never see it. For instance it is a very popular Yorcia delve strategy, and I've heard is pretty successful in Incursion also.

Let me re-word what I mean, and maybe give it some context.

When 2 Koga SAMs are in the party, or 1 Koga SAM and a Ryu DRG.. the SAM is never going to be self-skillchaining if they are fighting the same monsters. They are constantly opening and closing each others skillchains. Truth is, if two DDs of any calibur are in the same party, its highly unlikely anyone is self-skillchaining.

As for doing a 15k weaponskill to something with 2k HP in modern content.. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO BENEFIT TO THIS. It is actually detrimental to the overall speed of the group. Why? well.. pretend there are 2 or three other people fighting this monster. The SAM gets full TP and decides to blast a 15k Epeen WS off while this fodder monster only has 2k HP left. If this is a Koga SAM his white damage is already through the roof. If this is a normal SAM, HE HAS OTHER PEOPLE ATTACKING THE SAME MONSTER! It doesn't matter if his white damage is complete ***, he has help and enough haste. SAVE that TP and open the next monster with a nice 15k Weaponskill as that will improve the overall speed of the run.

But yes.. this SAM who waits will have lower parse numbers. Because he's not being a jackass wasting his TP so he can show off some BS epeen number.

Even if its something like Delve, where everyone is fighting a different fodder monster.. if you have full haste and the thing is going to die in a few auto-attacks – Don't waste your WS damage on a monster with 2k health left..

Just saying you don't see it in what you do is ignorant at best as an arguement to its utility, adapt your communication and it is entirely a viable strat between any DD.

Sorry but what I understand from "Cor is an amazing DD" is that it should be able to compete against Sam as a DD, not complement it... unless you consider SAM as ultra amazing or something which would contradict what you said before that:

Depends. When my group does Yorcia we usually have 1 "add killer" and 1 Sam self SCing on whatever NM. In many situations the add killer won't even finish all the adds before the NM is dead from the self SCing.

That's the thing though, it can be slower to wait a few auto attacks than to overkill a mob with a WS. A job like Sam does often gain the ability to WS in one attack round, yet with your pitiful white damage it can take quite a few attack rounds to finish off a mob. Overkilling it with a WS and then moving on is just a net gain in time at that point. Fudo scales with TP nicely but it isn't to the level that holding TP is -that- beneficial that you gain time from holding your TP while meleeing a mob down.

Thats 1 situation.. where is this self-skillchaining in old delve or incursion? It doesn't exist.


This is such a stupid argument. It would make sense if you were soloing, but you're not.. you are in a group 95% of the time. It is not beneficial to waste a 15k damage ability to finish up a monster who is that low in any modern situation. Your auto-attacks are fast and on most fodder monsters you should be autoing for 700-1k damage in addition to having capped haste.

Save that 15k damage to open on the next monster that has 20k+ HP.

That will speed up a run, not slow it down.

Honestly it's a little surprising this even needs to be addressed, but COR doesn't need to compete against SAM's numbers to be considered an amazing DD. It needs to be compared with BRD, GEO, and I guess RDM.

Ignoring sc dmg a second, on woh gates targets a vanir knife+OaT Atoyac cor white damage is on par with tsuru samurai tp phase damage.
Samurai white damage is its weak point, and in terms of melee hits landed, a melee corsair will roughly strike the target twice as fast (2000+ hits in ~1hr versus a sam hitting the target 1k-1200 times)

cor or sam will do 1.4-1.5mil damage per person in an hour ignoring sc damage. there is 5-10% variance in damage dealt usually between players that I categorize as competent.

Last 1hr cp farm, 'good' samurai did 182 fudo in 1hr, I only did 103 leadens in the same timespan.
So going back to about sc damage and overkill, accused of padding parse, I cant close on fudo of 2 sams ws'ing twice as fast on 2 different targets as me, and I can solo my own mobs and dont hold tp.
Again you are taking the potential idea of me abusing overkill damage to pad the parse in my favor when that isnt really how its going down.

Scoreboard breaks sc damage out seperately and generally its ~25% of the group dps and evenly divided between me and 2 samurais.

Cor can be a dd slot option or you can bring it to boost existing sams, either way its odd that people resist this and just wanna stack more samurais still

You can WS to instantly kill the mob, move on to the next moband hit it twice to WS again. Or you can spend however long meleeing it for multiple rounds banking up a ton of extra TP to use on the next mob. Given that having that extra TP isn't going to increase your Fudo damage by double or something, there really is no problem WSing.

Using your example you can WS the mob down to 5k HP, and then spend 5+ attack rounds killing it. Or you can WS it down to 15k HP and then have 1 attack round with a nice TA/QA and instantly WS again to finish the mob and move on. Really it's situational but WSing a low % mob is not always a bad idea. To be honest though who really cares? This isn't really worth talking about. I completely agree that people do pad parses with 2% Fudos all the time that have absolutely zero use.

Let's try this again.

A 'good' samurai does 182 fudo. How many of those are able to close a SC..? Most likely in the 40-50 range, let's say 25%. Faster TP gain on a mob with low HP means you can't afford to WS selectively.

You do 103 leadens. How many are able to close a SC..? Leaden loses much less from overTPing and the frequency of your party's WS means you could be closing on a much higher portion of your WS(80% would not be unrealistic if you're attentive).

This is a benefit that's solely due to your party construction. If you had 2 CORs, they would not both be able to do that. If you had no SAM, you would not be able to do that.

The argument has never been whether COR is a worthwhile job, it is, I use it myself for essentially everything. The argument is whether you're really 'beating' a SAM, and you aren't. This is a situation that favors you hugely(high disengaged time for everyone, you have a high ability to use SCs while SAM can't take advantage of theirs.. don't pretend 2 step light is comparable to 5 step), and even then you've admitted you lose to good SAM.

If it is an amazing DD, it should be compared with "DD" jobs, not other support jobs.

Again, you are misunderstanding. I'm talking about killing a monster when it will just die in the next few autos.. not WSing when it still has 5k HP. There is a huge difference between a monster having 1-2k hp left and having 5k hp. How did we go from 1-2k HP to 5k..

But I agree, this is no longer worth talking about.

Why?

EDIT: I don't like how I phrased this the first time.

If you wanted to directly compare SAM and COR's damage, you would have to factor in the damage COR does indirectly by buffing other DDs in his party. Nobody could ever catch a buffer with moderate-high direct damage considered that way, though, which is why it's pointless to frame it this way.

The primary purpose of both BRD and COR in a group is to enhance the performance of other players. On top of this, however, COR is capable of doing a shitload of damage on its own; BRD, on the other hand, basically just stands there. To ignore this because a mythic COR probably can't keep up with a mythic SAM in a dead heat is bonkers.

Drk is the best DD.

I beat Koga SAMs with my Conq WAR because I flurry II them instead of haste II with my mule, and let them die on purpose so I'm the only DD alive.

GUISE WAR IS BETTER THAN SAM, I HAVE PARSE PROOF

With what SE has done to WAR, I'd be surprised if that was even enough.

ITT: Comparing excellent CORs to bad SAMs and not even using the right content or SC structures to do so. If we're making fair comparisons on bad COR vs bad SAM then don't even have the COR shooting or meleeing at all, because 80% of them don't. If we want to fairly compare good COR vs good SAM then do it on nontrivial content, not content where the multistep SC or SC output of the job doesn't matter whatsoever.

ftfy

Specifically, D+ BCs. -MDT/MDB that they gain just makes it do terrible damage. Better to use Realmrazer as long as you're riding Fury and Frailty. Realm can be better in other content as well that doesn't resist Flash Nova, but Flash is a nice fall back if you're finding yourself using non-DD based bubbles.

Don't find it lacking in any regard. A buffer that can put out 50% of a solid non Sam SC machine DD isn't anything lacking.

I have a few cor that I run with that I easily consider them dds instead of support. They dont sub whm or any of that mess and just kill ***. More then a few times they out parse lolmnks and drgs in incursion.

Every time someone ask me to sub anything then /DNC /RNG for events on COR, I die a little inside...Tho I did surprise some pickups with COR/DRG on AA fights :P

If only DD's could see the extra damage they're dealing due to marches/minuets. Brd is the best dd technically since the extra dps they create with their songs is exponentially better than any individual DD.

Let's say it this way, there are situations that COR can compete/beat an equally geared SAM. For example when attack/acc is an issue, or with indi-malaise, or in skirmish. And there are situations that SAM can beat a COR easily. For example, VD battle field or incursion.....or basically any higher lv content.

IMO it's not exactly fair to just say "COR can't beat a SAM unless your SAM is bad" without stating the situation.

LOL, Never a definitive answer to be gotten when these threads appear.

I'm Blablabla, and I approve this message.