-Cure Casting Time VS Fast Cast

Hey guys,

I was wondering about mixing -Cure Casting Gear with Fast Cast. Do we just add the numbers together to obtain 80% Fast Cast or is there a more complex formula to it?

Also, in order to obtain the recast reduction of Fast Cast Gear, does it need to be equipped when the spell goes off or will having it only during precast be enough?

If it doesnt include AF3+2 Legs in the set, then I am not all that interested. Although please do enlighten me, show me this set.

What about my question about recast timers?

For recast timers, Check the other thread you made about this very topic.

ItemSet 328438

+50% Cure potency

-80% Cure cast Time(with Cure Cast merits but not counting Light Arts since it breaks the cap.)

-50 Enmity(with -enmity merits)

+507 Healing Magic(with Healing Magic merits) allowing for capped Tranquil Heart. Which stacks on top of gear enmity.

In all due respect, the difference between sifahir slacks and orison pantaloons +2 is pretty minimal. The 2% cure casting time is negligible with the amount you get on other slots nowadays, and as the 1% MP returned would be nice to have it's not really detrimental to your MP pool at all with all the mana resources who game has.

The Empyrean Legs don't have the versatility of the Sifahir Slacks for this set, and even if you did you gearswap, having another item level gear piece in your cure set is never a bad thing.

The only non-item level piece I still use is the empyrean body just because of how good the cureskin bonus on Solace is on it. But it still worries me a little using it still. Hopefully, i119 Empyrean upgrades with some soon and set my fears to rest, lol.

I assume this is a "all in one set" because that's hardly an optimal build, and being worried about being in a piece of gear that is like 60defence difference is negligeable ~

Harden shell which is +100% defence is a 25% reduction in damage taken (before PDT) (Prothescar sited this although it may have been 50% but Im 99.99% sure he said 25%)

Assuming protect5 up you're at around 860 defence as WHm ~ 60 defence is about 8% of your defence, which is about 2% damage taken for the 0.2 seconds you're casting cure for. I would hope 2% for a short interval isn't whats going to kill you ~

on a all in one set I'd assume you have limited access to optimal builds to manage MP properly and get the most out of your cures etc or there is some delay on your client side (PS2 limitations etc etc) if this is the case the above set is fine, but I'd wager the extra 1% mp converted for such a user may have more benefits.

This is of course assuming you're doing an event with either s poor stunner or brd who doesn't toss you ballads ~

its so mind blowing that we need 2 topics!

We should make a 3rd just to ensure it's all covered.

I guess the WHM guide explaining all this on page 1 was of no use!

ikr...

There is something in reguards to whm cure sets that I don't see around in any of the 3 lol threads.

with whitemage job points you can now add a substantial amount of cure potency therefor the affinity casting time down staff should be able to be put into play quite nicely as that casting time down; as far as i know; is in a seperate category from cure cast/fast cast yes? how about a set taking use of that staff?

you can cap cure casting time w/o though cant you ?

affinity casting time down is separate from the cure cast/fast cast i thought? we're just adding it to the cure set to make for an even 'faster' cure. so even though yes, we have sets that are at the cap; if someone were looking to make an even faster cure they could make use of the magian affinity casting time down staff to make for an even faster cure is my thought.

anyone know for certain if this idea is applicable for whm cure speed; to make for a even faster cure?

in my set on mule without staff i can cast aga v at 20% and recast as soon as the animation is done and you are able to cast anything so staff may be able to lower recast further but wouldn't affect anything

if i remember right 20% is minimum cast time unless changed

recast isn't really the goal. I'm just wondering about the speed of actual casting, it does affect it as an improvement regardless of max casting time down yes?

Element: Light Affinity: Magic Accuracy+1
Element: Light Affinity: Magic Damage+6
Element: Light Affinity: Casting time -14%

The focus is on -casting time-

not.
Element: Light Affinity: Magic Accuracy+6
Element: Light Affinity: Recast time -14%
Element: Light Affinity: Magic Damage+1
-----

I'm just trying to see if there is a plausibility to make from the time you hit the macro to the time cure lands, can be quicker making use of said staff?


hmmm maybe my thinking is flawed... i just was for some reason thining casting time down on a magian staff was multiplicative to casting time / fast cast

I don't think the affinity staves break cap. I've never heard anything like that before.

I thought, that, sense it is, 'affinity' casting time, it takes whatever the casting time is; makes that 84%. Then from there adds in the fast-cast & natural cure cast down. So you are getting a 80% cure cast down from a new starting point of 84%

maybe i'm wrong

now granted; it would be micro-seconds difference we're talking about but still; in theory if affinity casting time is multiplicative before curecast/fastcast is even factored in, there would theoretically be a faster cure set available. I'm curious if this is so

That isn't how it works. Even if it was cap breaking it wouldn't work like that.

IIRC, the affinity staves are mutliplicative, calculated after all other forms of casting time reduction, but I don't believe they bypass the 80% reduction cap.

no worries if i'm wrong, just was wondering. but by logical argumentative terms considering apamajasII for stun isn't factored into the natural fast cast cap; why would this staff be any different from being factored into it the same way?

In essence we're not 'breaking' the cap. dont look at it that way. its just that we're making the entire window smaller before factoring in the cap i thought?

spells cast when @ 80% of 100% naturally.
with affinity staff, you are making that natural 80% of 100% smaller(-14%); and then factoring in fastcast no?

67.2% is 80% of 84. 100-14(affinity down) = 84
so natural cast @ 80% of 100% turns into.. cast at 67.2%(new 80) of 84(new 100); and then fast cast cap should be factored into the equation is how i thought it worked?

They don't I did rather extensive testing.

You're getting too caught up in what the casting bar says, and forgetting that you have -cure cast merits which shave 20% off the casting time and likely light arts which is a further 10%

yes and no.

no because i am remembering specifically other posts of the past, talking about spell animation and completion always do complete earlier then max casting bar. I believe the hard evidence is spells complete @ 80% of 100% as 'bare bones'; no matter the job, while naked. is what i remember

The bar was to put figure of speak into a picture for clarity.

Yes the spellcasting time bar has nothing to do with the factors, but for a frame of reference to how the multiplication is actually taking affect without 'breaking' caps is why i make mention of it.

~~~~~~~~

You guys kept talking about 'cap's' which is why i made mention of the spell casting bar. all spells complete animation and take effect @ 80% of 100% by virtue of spell mechanics and how they work at lv 1 on any spell casting job.

Therefor my arguement is that the affinity casting time down is not breaking any caps but rather making that 80 of 100 window smaller before any fastcast caps are hardlined in

80% of the casting bar is 100% of the casting time. There is a cap of 80% reduction on spell casting time. Fastcast and -casting time are the same thing for casting time reduction. WHM has 20% reduction from merits, and a further 10% from light arts. WHM has no trouble capping casting reduction without the use of the ToM staves.

yes. I don't disagree. I agree with you.

I brought it up as a mental picture of what the affinity casting time staff is allowing to happen before fastcast is being a factor.

It's affinity casting time down. the logicality that apamajasII recast down is seperate from fastcast cap. (yes i know that recast cap can be hit without the staff and therefore makes it null) ((that is not the point. nor is recast the point))

But! for sake of argument. The same logicality should be the same, and therefore carry over into the cure cast affinity logicality point that i am trying to make no? This isn't about recast cap, because the cap will be hit either way; but the actual cast time can be further improved taking the same logic regarding to how the factorization of the stun staff is factored as an outsider from the fastcast cap

Your gear is -50% Cast time
This is then taken from 100 not 80.

So its is 100 - 50~ You can not go beyond 80% of 100 so if you kept your -64% you would need another 16% to cap out cure cast time. It caps at 80.

It is not a % of 80 you are getting from gear, but a % from 100.

and FYI: SCH Stun Staff is not factored outside of the 80% cap, its is the combination of a Job Ability and Relic Feet that allow this~

Maths for this ***is Rather straight forward.


Cure Cast Time was proven to be Fastcast and is factored into the inital 80% cast time.

Link to Testing from 2008.

So

15% heka body
12% Pants
15% Cure Clogs

- 42% Cast Time

These are Cure Csst time, these are not multiplicative with fast Cast.

You have 58% left, you would only need 38% in fast Cast gear (because these are added not Multiplied) to obtain 80% cast time cap.

Light arts -10% is Multiplicative as it's a Grimoire.

So 1-0.1 ~ 0.9 x w.e your fastcast is (this is on the WHM guide v2 I made next to SCH Sub Job and was also asked as a Q later).

It's factored AFTER other forms of fastcast, that's why it's more powerful, the same way affinity damage or accuracy are more powerful because they are an additional % added AFTER everything else. 14% of a big number is more than 14% of a small one.

Cure cast time + fastcast = Initial Stage
Then if you have say 70% Fast Cast, the -14% Affinity staff is factored after but it only reduces 14% of the 30% left.

14% of 30 ~ 4.2% reduction.

You're thinking Affinity means ZOMG, its simply factpred after everything else, in terms of damage this works as there is no cap and is being added to a Larger %, with reduction you are removing the size making it smaller so Logically no as you are doing the process in reverse.

Seriously just stop thinking about it, you're wrong end of lol

the refutation to my retardation XD :) it helps. im honored you disputed my question in earnest without getting to angered with me sense i won't give up to a simple no. I'm satisfied with that last explanation. thank you.

/bow & /salute