Sigurd's Descendants: The Art Of Dragon Slaying.
Sigurd's Descendants: The Art of Dragon Slaying.
Certainly not Dumb Sidra lol, I just like to pick on Kat and I know Sidra is a good Drg, Well maybe better than Just Good.
Leviathan.Katriina said: »
Where is the evidence that DRG is half of total DPS than a WAR (thats new to me)
Quote:
The example mentioned was to point out the idea of exploiting Rho DPS and AG to benefit this long *** fight, you can't simply deny how AG affects the corse of fight sometimes and you can't deny that using Rho for Camm is better than using it on Trish.
Leviathan.Sidra said: »
Hell, I had been sitting on Schah for like 2 months until some nice dude on my server let me join his crew and finish the dagger off for me.
Leviathan.Sidra said: »
Am I dumb? I guess that's everyone's call to make on their own. But I certainly don't feel that way.
I would agree that someone who cannot reasonably consider Trishula and still wants to be a top tier DRG could strongly benefit from making Rhongomiant. It's just that, in most cases, Trishula is an equal or lesser amount of work for a greater weapon.
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Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
Leviathan.Sidra said: »
Hell, I had been sitting on Schah for like 2 months until some nice dude on my server let me join his crew and finish the dagger off for me.
/wave
Hell, I had been sitting on Schah for like 2 months until some nice dude on my server let me join his crew and finish the dagger off for me.
/wave
And this is why we have progress. Being nice and helpful to people.
separated some GEO spells from the others and allowing up to 4 to be selected, an escha option which gives all relevant buffs, also added a couple more pieces of gear at some requests
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7LcJujrpsg-TzBGZ3ZUWmhVQlk
open dist folder and just run the .exe
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7LcJujrpsg-TzBGZ3ZUWmhVQlk
open dist folder and just run the .exe
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made an extra output that only runs a 3 minute simulation. note that there will be much more variance involved and you could get a few hundred dps difference despite nothing changing. ideally you'd minimize variance while maintaining as much dps as possible. so gear with similar averages in the first output, like an stp option and a da option, the stp option would be a wiser choice, of course that all changes with buffs, debuffs, mob, and the rest of your gear.
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made several QoL improvements throughout the day on my drg simulation, particularly several outputs of three minute simulations to show the range of variance you can have as well as a nicer stats page.
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Tried out few settings for Rho and Trish in the simulation and I still hold the stance of:
These little intricacies in my opinion still push the narrative of building a Rho along side Trish if you're serious about DRG.
But if you have access to Aeonic clears, by all means just stick with Trish and let others worry about said intricacies.
These two weapons are very close to one another and the margin varies between (0.6%-3%)in simulation (BiS sets and Fighther's Roll) in favor of Trish and on spreadsheets its stretched to (1.5%-4.5%) (in my own sets) in favor of Rho and (0.5%-1.5%) in BiS set in favor of Trish.
Probably based on current trends of rolls, Trish will become easily aligned with Rho and even on top for that sole reason alone.
The moment Fighter's roll is used (which is the normal go to these days coupled with Sam Roll due to the nature of WS's used) Trish becomes on Top in Zerg situations and/or Sc Strats with 2%-3% (in my current set on Spreadsheet).
The idea of Stardiver sharing the same affinity to multi-hit as the recommended set for Rho (Empy Weapons in general) makes Rho a great weapon to obtain if you're worried about inventory and want to squeeze in DRG amongst the jobs you play with your group (you won't need to make room for a specific set for Trish), but some will definitely argue this stance and its 100% valid to do so.
But if the margin between them is that close, wouldn't it be wise to look on other aspects that these two weapons serve aside from the obvious DPS potential?
Wouldn't 50 VIT account for something here? wouldn't it make things a lot easier in chaotic scenarios to have that kick to add more survivability? if this argument was shared before SE modified VIT/DEF formula I would disregard it too but thats not the case here.
One more aspect of this, is the pure (insane) white damage that Rho provides to DRG in scenarios where it becomes increasingly difficult to spam WS due to various factors (Amnesia comes to mind) and or bosses that take less damage from SC or multi-hit WS's?
These little intricacies in my opinion still push the narrative of building a Rho along side Trish if you're serious about DRG.
But if you have access to Aeonic clears, by all means just stick with Trish and let others worry about said intricacies.
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i take it you didn't pay any attention to the 3 minute simulation outputs in the most recent version. the fact rho vs itself can have almos 25% difference between itself should tell you something, yeah trish could as well but it's not nearly pronounced since it has far less variance in both gear (going by spicy sets on bg) and functionality.
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Honestly its exceedingly obvious that you just want to silence any outlook on the matter.
I repeat, DO NOT assume things about others without asking first.(its annoying and cringy)
I tried the latest 3 min simulation and saw the variations ... when I mentioned the percentages I took the average of them all that is provided by the simulation itself.
This self entitled righteousness is incredibly annoying and I was NOT directing any of my remarks to you spesificlly so stop thinking your the center of this forum ( YOU ARE NOT )
What I learned so far from you:
Im no longer interested in anything you say or provide, I share what I share because I want to share it and your view holds no value to me what so ever.
You repeatedly proven over the course of this debate that you lack any decency to properly construct a valid argument, your constantly strawmannirg most of your stances and trying to warp them to fit your narrative of self entitlement and if anyone dared to counter these arguments with evidence you're ready to dismiss it all and call them ignorant.
I don't even think that you ever played DRG yet you assign yourself the gaurdian for everything DRG.
News Flash, Im still using Rho in endgame content and it proved to be of a great asset wither you like it or not.
I repeat, DO NOT assume things about others without asking first.(its annoying and cringy)
I tried the latest 3 min simulation and saw the variations ... when I mentioned the percentages I took the average of them all that is provided by the simulation itself.
This self entitled righteousness is incredibly annoying and I was NOT directing any of my remarks to you spesificlly so stop thinking your the center of this forum ( YOU ARE NOT )
What I learned so far from you:
Spreadsheets are so bad because I said so.
Field trials are not credible because its not me who did it.
If you don't agree with me you're ignorant.
Im the king of everything DRG even though I never played it.
Simulations onry! But if anyone else uses them they are no longer credible!
My last AH history is March 2010
Im no longer interested in anything you say or provide, I share what I share because I want to share it and your view holds no value to me what so ever.
You repeatedly proven over the course of this debate that you lack any decency to properly construct a valid argument, your constantly strawmannirg most of your stances and trying to warp them to fit your narrative of self entitlement and if anyone dared to counter these arguments with evidence you're ready to dismiss it all and call them ignorant.
I don't even think that you ever played DRG yet you assign yourself the gaurdian for everything DRG.
News Flash, Im still using Rho in endgame content and it proved to be of a great asset wither you like it or not.
here's everything you just said that applies to yourself:
And I don't care what weapon you use, I do care that you suggest someone build one because you say so using a tool you don't know how to use. Suggesting someone make a Rho because you think it's good when in reality it's a weaker weapon than trish, neither the sheet or my simulation take into account skillchains and you honestly believe that stupid 2% increase you have to play perfectly to maintain can't be made up with just a few random skillchains, you're delusional.
lol, that's how I can tell you don't have anything worth a ***to say
Leviathan.Katriina said: »
Honestly its exceedingly obvious that you just want to silence any outlook on the matter.
Leviathan.Katriina said: »
your view holds no value to me what so ever.
Leviathan.Katriina said: »
You repeatedly proven over the course of this debate that you lack any decency to properly construct a valid argument, your constantly strawmannirg most of your stances and trying to warp them to fit your narrative of self entitlement and if anyone dared to counter these arguments with evidence you're ready to dismiss it all and call them ignorant.
And I don't care what weapon you use, I do care that you suggest someone build one because you say so using a tool you don't know how to use. Suggesting someone make a Rho because you think it's good when in reality it's a weaker weapon than trish, neither the sheet or my simulation take into account skillchains and you honestly believe that stupid 2% increase you have to play perfectly to maintain can't be made up with just a few random skillchains, you're delusional.
Leviathan.Katriina said: »
My last AH history is March 2010
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Austar is a pretty objective person and certainly doesn't consider herself (himself? I don't remember lol) to be any kind of center of anything.
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Ramuh.Austar said: »
And I don't care what weapon you use, I do care that you suggest someone build one because you say so using a tool you don't know how to use.
What a moronic statement as always, I have ALL AG REA FOR DRG, and I test them out everyday in countless scenarios, I believe I'm qualified enough to say my opinion on them than you.
Spreadsheets came after when you decided that players reviews hold no value to you. and was provided as evidence to support when you didn't even bother to bring anything to the table.
Ramuh.Austar said: »
neither the sheet or my simulation take into account skillchains
isnt it funny when you discredit your own work and what is left now is actual field tests with others to see this factor and I did provide insight to it before?
Leviathan.Katriina said: »
Trish Wins in Solo DPS and/or SC spam with others.
Ramuh.Austar said: »
Leviathan.Katriina said: »
My last AH history is March 2010
lol, that's how I can tell you don't have anything worth a ***to say
My last AH history is March 2010
lol, that's how I can tell you don't have anything worth a ***to say
Ever heard of irony?
K thanks, you win :)
Leviathan.Katriina said: »
isnt it funny when you discredit your own work and what is left now is actual field tests with others to see this factor and I did provide insight to it before?
Leviathan.Katriina said: »
What a moronic statement as always, I have ALL AG REA FOR DRG, and I test them out everyday in countless scenarios, I believe I'm qualified enough to say my opinion on them than you.
Leviathan.Katriina said: »
Trish Wins in Solo DPS and/or SC spam with others.
Leviathan.Katriina said: »
Spreadsheets came after when you decided that players reviews hold no value to you
Leviathan.Katriina said: »
Ever heard of irony?
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Trying so hard to keep up with your BS...
Keep on bashing, prove my point even more.
You're the only one that can use simulations and spreadsheets and I don't.
Happy now?
Grow up!
Edit: For future reference, You Win in advance I know!
Keep on bashing, prove my point even more.
You're the only one that can use simulations and spreadsheets and I don't.
Happy now?
Grow up!
Edit: For future reference, You Win in advance I know!
you've made it very clear you can't use either tool or know how to interpret the results and i pity anyone that takes any piece of advice you have to share
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K
Please keep up, you're doing great :)
Please keep up, you're doing great :)
Leviathan.Katriina said: »
Grow up!
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It really is pointless to debate best over things that a human can't do anyway.
If you have it already, use it. If you don't have it, make it, whatever it is. Spend less time worrying about ***you'll never replicate and do something constructive.
Until we start TASing XI everything is only as good as the user who wields it. No amount of spreadsheeting and simulating can make up for your slow reaction times and lag. (and bad whms)
If you have it already, use it. If you don't have it, make it, whatever it is. Spend less time worrying about ***you'll never replicate and do something constructive.
Until we start TASing XI everything is only as good as the user who wields it. No amount of spreadsheeting and simulating can make up for your slow reaction times and lag. (and bad whms)
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Siren.Kyte said: »
Austar is a pretty objective person and certainly doesn't consider herself (himself? I don't remember lol) to be any kind of center of anything.
To be fair, in this entire discussion, despite the attitude Katriina did analyze the pros and cons of each weapon in multiple posts, many of them seem to make sense in many ways. On paper, at least.
Obviously FFXI theory crafting on forums may not reflect in actual results just because there are too many factors affecting them. For example we can talk about 3% dps difference between gears in X situations, but using the right gear doesn't change the fact that late engage for 5 sec, slow reaction or get unlucky with fotia proc = lose parse.
That doesn't we shouldn't analyze the pros and cons of each weapon. Because in the end of day, knowledge like this help us make better decision when it comes to gear selections, even if the difference is so small and effort to get them is huge. There isn't much we can do, nor discuss about RNG, engage speed, lag and engage speed. But we can at least do something about choosing better gears that appears to work better on paper in specific situations.
Because how I view theory crafting and dps discussion, I personally find it hard to agree with "such small increase is not worth the 250m" sort of statement. How one want to spend gil is subjective. But whether a weapon is 2% increase in specific situation or not is probably universal fact. Whats the point to discuss people's opinion on gil investment in a dps discussion?
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Its quite interesting seeing other players trying to convey the same message between Empy and Aeonic yet no one is trying to silence them :)
But when it comes to my own input on the matter and from (a player viewpoint/simulaton/spreadsheets) it becomes a national security problem and they have to fight over 2% and claim that Gil is wasted...
#hypocrisy_at_its_best
Also:
TL;DR Gil Argument in a DPS debate holds zero value.
Ragnarok.Ejiin said: »
tl;dr
The 2 weapons are extremely close. No one is saying make Masa over Dorji. Player input matters more than weapon choice.
The 2 weapons are extremely close. No one is saying make Masa over Dorji. Player input matters more than weapon choice.
Asura.Syto said: »
Like Ejinn said, sample size, player input, and mob output is important.
But when it comes to my own input on the matter and from (a player viewpoint/simulaton/spreadsheets) it becomes a national security problem and they have to fight over 2% and claim that Gil is wasted...
Leviathan.Katriina said: »
These two weapons are very close
Leviathan.Katriina said: »
These little intricacies in my opinion still push the narrative of building a Rho along side Trish if you're serious about DRG.
But if you have access to Aeonic clears, by all means just stick with Trish and let others worry about said intricacies.
But if you have access to Aeonic clears, by all means just stick with Trish and let others worry about said intricacies.
#hypocrisy_at_its_best
Also:
Leviathan.Katriina said: »
Where was that even mentioned, show me where anyone claimed that Rho is far beyond Trish! you're just fabricating claims that simply do not exist, so drop this attitude of strawmannirg things here.
TL;DR Gil Argument in a DPS debate holds zero value.
no you just miss the entire point and you're not worth it anymore. you can do whatever you want, nobody cares about that, it's when you try to make claims that aren't even true when it becomes an issue.
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Point out exactly the point that I missed instead of virtue signaling your crap.
You're the one who's not even worth debating, so stop playing the hero here and move on. No one cares about anything here anyway so spare yourself this drama and leave it.
Typical patronizer.
You're the one who's not even worth debating, so stop playing the hero here and move on. No one cares about anything here anyway so spare yourself this drama and leave it.
Typical patronizer.
i have several times. if you haven't gotten it yet, you won't now.
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No You haven't, your argument didn't hold any merit.
And Again Proved nothing.
Live with it and carry on.
And Again Proved nothing.
Live with it and carry on.
Leviathan.Katriina said: »
Point out exactly the point that I missed
Trying to argue that you don't need more gear for Rhongomiant is ridiculous, if you can't afford 6 gear slots for a TP set you have bigger problems than what weapon you should be using.
75 defense might be a 5-6% reduction in physical damage taken if monster isn't capping attack, but there's a reason almost all emphasis is placed on magic evasion gear. Meaningful damage from relevant content is almost all magic. If you really want to make that case, locking defending ring or loricate torque and keeping Trishula will STILL win over rhongomiant with a DD piece in the comparable slot in both damage dealt and damage reduction .
You've made no relevant point, and your posts only serve to illustrate that you're completely and utterly incapable of assessing any views contrary to your own.
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mate we did mention that skill chains aren't accounted for using spreadsheets and simulations and resorted to talk about the field then he provided this feedback.
"Field needs to be fully controlled" and this is almost impossible to make.
So what else we can use to debate here? if everything so far proved nothing of the claim that Aeonic is far superior.
maybe player feedback should count for something here?
Edit from what I saw so far, none of you proved how superior Trish is to Rho, and the extra points i provided about VIT was to point the pros and cons in said weapon.
Im all for the debate as long as it hold a merit and concrete evidence.. why should I cater to what you feel or think when you can't prove it on paper or even in field.
Player feedback should be relevant weither you like it or not.
"Field needs to be fully controlled" and this is almost impossible to make.
So what else we can use to debate here? if everything so far proved nothing of the claim that Aeonic is far superior.
maybe player feedback should count for something here?
Edit from what I saw so far, none of you proved how superior Trish is to Rho, and the extra points i provided about VIT was to point the pros and cons in said weapon.
Im all for the debate as long as it hold a merit and concrete evidence.. why should I cater to what you feel or think when you can't prove it on paper or even in field.
Player feedback should be relevant weither you like it or not.
Player feedback is only as valuable as the player providing it. You're not giving objective numbers in controlled conditions, you're basically saying 'I feel this way, please agree with me'.
When accounting for everything we can and considering the things we can't, we can easily conclude that Trishula is better than Rhongomiant. Basic logic shows that assuming 0 AM3 downtime and 0 skillchain damage is going to help Rhongomiant more than it helps Trishula.
x - rhongomiant base damage in simulation
y - additional damage from skillchains
z - damage change from am3 lost
1.02x + (1.00~1.10)Y is always going to be better than 1.00x + Y +- Z. It's not that complicated, you're literally the only person here who does not get it.
When accounting for everything we can and considering the things we can't, we can easily conclude that Trishula is better than Rhongomiant. Basic logic shows that assuming 0 AM3 downtime and 0 skillchain damage is going to help Rhongomiant more than it helps Trishula.
x - rhongomiant base damage in simulation
y - additional damage from skillchains
z - damage change from am3 lost
1.02x + (1.00~1.10)Y is always going to be better than 1.00x + Y +- Z. It's not that complicated, you're literally the only person here who does not get it.
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