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When you look at a specific religion, you should not look at the people, but look at the religion itself. That's the problem most people have these days.

And as I said, I can prove to you scientifically that there is a Creator.

for Ramy:

No, you can't.

Saying no so plainly without any argument, is just waste.

Yea...i cant find anything of good quality on Youtube :( There is a video that shows the part i want...but god is it like...so bad...

So Dubai, you've reall all 43+ versions of the Holy Bible, written over the course of 1500+ years?

They don't prove a Divine being, but postulate one on observances.

Also, that video you sent, had little to do with what I had written, since they had been around as long, if not longer, than Muslims have had a written history, as they descended much from ancient Vikings almost 13k years ago, if not longer.

Dubai, I'm not going to debate you. As you're one of the few to speak up with a seeming actual definitive belief, it is not for me to try to convince you away from your religion. Religion is as much cultural as anything, and even were I to convince you, chances are that would mean I didn't just convince you to cast aside your comfort blanket of theism, but also family, friends, and community.

That is not something I even want to do.

In my lifetime all I hope for is for people to stop using religion as a thin excuse to hurt others and deny others civil liberties.

Sadly, even if your religion does not indicate to its followers than violence is the answer, some interpret it as such. Whether they're wrong or not according to your religious text is meaningless to their victims.

And that holds true for Christianity, as well, if not in exactly the same fashions.

It's very difficult to stand up for your religion in today's world.

It's harder still to do so without imposing your beliefs on others.

I myself am a product of what happens when people try to do so; I often respond to harshly and with too much vitriol to religion because of the terrible things I've seen done in its name, even though I essentially -am- a Christian, minus the belief in divinity.

Meh. Rambling now.

Bottom line, don't use your religion to treat people like *** and try to convince those of your religion to do the same.

If everyone just does that, people can all believe whatever they want.

But when religion starts saying "persecute the nonbelievers" or "kill the gays" or "stone that woman for cheating on her husband that she never wanted, even though he was scum"...

...that's when I tend to have somewhat vehement negative reactions to religion.

It's common knowledge, but you're one who believes that the Quaran is scientific fact, so...

Yeeeeeeeeeep. I got my masters in Comparative Religion.

Depends on what you define as a creator. I create a couple things, usually twelve plus hours after a meal. Am I God? Or do I just have a healthy colon? I'll leave that debate to future generations.


But if you believe there is an Original creator, you cannot prove it. The most you can do is assume a series of assumptions are true. We were talking about Occam's razor a little while ago, and if you're unfamiliar with the term, it basically means that which relies on the least assumptions is usually true. Just in the realm of religion alone, you have to believe that 60,000+ Individual interpretations are all false, and that you chose the one truth, some people would rather buy the lottery ticket for a 1:60,000 payoff, I'd rather invest in a future.

In terms of an original creator, you have to assume that there needed to be a creator, and that the creator didn't need a creator. As Carl Sagan would say, why not save a step? Assume everything didn't need a creator, neither assumption has any more or any less validity or evidence.


Normally I flay people who cite credentials as an argument (Appeal to Authority fallacy, self edition), but since it's a directly relevant response and not used as a form of argumentative evidence, you get a pass.

I never treated anyone on this topic as ***, nor am I trying to convince you in any way, in the end your opinions and believes are your own.

I'm just trying to inform you and others of what Islam is rather than hearing it from the media.

Also, there not a single text in Islam that says "Kill non believers", if anyone does say they have, then bring me the entire verse, I would be more than happy to convert to worshiping cows and anime.

Lol, backing down are you? You argue with basic of not having an argument. Better think of something fast while I am up late and high on coffee.

That's not what Occam's Razor means, Zic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor

I'm not backing down, the burden of proof is upon you, and that crap you posted isn't proof.

For what it's worth, I actually watched the video...not sure everyone did if they were responding to a 10-minute video less than 10 minutes after you posted it.

All I can say is that he's taking some liberties with scientific and historical facts and also just sort of assuming things to be as he himself was taught.

That said, while he's not proved anything, and while I feel he's wrong, he's still a very engaging fellow and I sort of enjoyed watching it, even if I don't believe in what he's saying.

I enjoy non-confrontational people of any belief system who can be civil.

It's probably why I still love my long-time friend and brother-in-law, even if he's turned into a boring, somewhat rhetorical Methodist minister. ._.;

Edit: That said, one simple thing that's wrong about his video is that there were cultures who knew the world was round long, long, LONG before the 1400s. Hell, even illiterate sailors from Europe who had been out to sea long enough to watch a sunset from various places understood the curvature of the Earth.

I watched part of it, couldn't stand more with his horrid accent, if I want to hear accents like that I'll call tech support.

"It states that among competing hypotheses, the one with the fewest assumptions should be selected."

I leave it up to people who's fulltime job isn't to camp my posts with a vindictive nature to determine if I used the term incorrectly in context.

Anyone without a personal grudge think I used the term unfairly?

You do know what a hypothesis is, right?

He wasn't that bad. -.-;

If he did tech support I'd have approximately 50% less problems when I call them, at minimum.

I understand and completely respect your argument. "If I created something does that make me a god?!" - No that makes you a "Creator", similarly we humans as well as the entire universe,etc.. has a "Creator".

"In terms of an original creator, you have to assume that there needed to be a creator, and that the creator didn't need a creator."

On your way to work in the morning, on a bright sunny day, try staring at the sun.

I think you've used that Avatar long enough and you should at least use a different Venture Brothers character.

It was pretty bad...

I don't call support unless I have to, I opt for online chat whenever possible. (or just drive my happy *** to the store).

At a very basic level I can actually go along with this.

However, as I look at it from a fundamental level I can tell you right off that bat that no organized religion is going to see that statement the same way I do.

Your customer support must be way better than the ones I've called, because I understand pretty much everything he said that was in English. :p

Not really, I just never call them.