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Expecting this to end at all is unrealistic if we can't get people to let go of religion, or at least very large aspects of it.

While not all of those who believe in Islam believe this way, the ones currently engaged in military conflict tend to believe their religion demands of them what they're doing. If you can't get them to abandon this core belief of their religion, expecting an end to any conflict in which they are engaged is a pipe dream.

Unrealistic in today's society, unknown in future though.

All it would take is proof that God does not exist and/or a major event to happen for this to take place.

For example: nearly all religious texts (taken seriously of course, not the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster or other such religions) state that humans are the only beings in the universe. If aliens make contact tomorrow, that would throw the entire religious community in disarray because one of their biggest aspects is the singularity of humans in existence (and that humans are the spitting image of God and all that jazz).

Aliens land and God is proven to not exist. Religions abolished, and/or Spaghetti Monster takes over the world.

I'm sorry you live in a christian community - what does that mean by the way? Christian can mean a lot of things. Are you sure is the christian aspect of the community you have issue with or is it the ignorant aspect?

I'm democratic. unbending, absolutely democratic.
I'm also religious, but religiously tolerant.
I'm also secularists.

How?
Simple Hypothetical -If I'm Muslim and my community is Christian, well I gotta deal with it. That means if they vote no Halal food on the supermarket shelves, that's my problem. I can either live with it, move or lobby against it. What I CANNOT do is force them to believe something else, or start taking illegal action to get Halal food on the supermarket shelves. Should that community vote that I can have Halal food send just to me because I'm a part of the community and it isn't harming anyone else, good for them. Appreciated. Thank you.

Where you and I seem to differ is I do not want to force people to abandon religion. They can have religion. As long as I can have mine in my own private life. I just do not want politics and religion merged or fused together.

That means its fine if the inhabitants of the state are religious. But I don't want religious clerics dictating laws. I want technocrats dictating the laws.

Religion is a personal choice, it should be personal. If everyone in a community are religious, than the democratic process will safegaurd their beliefs.

If your assertion is that Hamas has never used its own non-combatants as chess pieces and placed them in danger/gotten them killed as a PR move, then you're probably beyond rational discussion.

Both sides are terrible in this conflict. Period.

This... only works in theory. World history is a great example of that. Even in the modern world.

Would be nice if it really worked that way

I've thrown down the gauntlet, get me a proven case.

That's not really accurate. The use of Islam as a banner to repel invading armies is true. People rally behind what they believe when faced with an outside invading army.

The arab world was colonized by foreign powers. The arab world happens to be Muslim. The arab world were radicalized due to very harsh imperialistic foreign policies. they rally behind Islam. Islam is to blame?

wait wut? lol

I will sink your battleship - please provide an unbiased source stating Hamas have done this.

Actually history stretches back further than the last 100 years. Don't mean to sound condescending, but you should read up on the Ottoman empire and Al Andulus, Jerusalem under the muslims rule.

...there are many in the Islamic world who believe that their religion demands of them to take the fight to non-believers. Yes within theological circles this is debated, but it doesn't stop believers from carrying out violent actions around the globe.

Nothing is ever so clear in the complex and often brutal calculus of urban warfare. There is no evidence that Hamas and other militants force civilians to stay in areas that are under attack — the legal definition of a human shield under international law. But it is indisputable that Gaza militants operate in civilian areas, draw return fire to civilian structures, and on some level benefit in the diplomatic arena from the rising casualties. They also have at times encouraged residents not to flee their homes when alerted by Israel to a pending strike and, having prepared extensively for war, did not build civilian bomb shelters.

Before we can provide an unbiased source, please tell us what sources you consider biased first. Wait, since that list will be very long, why not provide us a list of sources you consider unbiased.

We'll wait.

Source


Good article on why both groups are douchebags

Is my plan to turn the Middle East into Disneyworld still valid ?

Dude... there are 1.7 billion muslims... even if 100,000 of them believe what you think they do, that isn't "many" at all.. in fact its less than a percentile.

The vast majority of Muslims are moderate, pious people who suffer more from terrorism and violence than non-Muslims. Ninety-three percent of Muslims do not support extremist views of terrorism.

...there are many in the Islamic world who believe that their religion demands of them to take the fight to non-believers.

history has proven, that:
1. Peace is ephemeral - or it has just not been properly written and consolidated.
2 War is inevitable when one government covets another country's resources and prosperity - Agreed. But whats wrong with that? Whats the alternative - let it slide brah?
3. Historically speaking, the Jewish people are the single most discriminated people ever by the Europeans. (FTFY)
4. The Ottoman empire was not all that peaceful - compared to the other empires, it was.
5. I should read more on Al Andulus - yep.
6. The "most prosperous time" circa 800-1100AD, was the most devastating time under Muslim rule, with war on their doorsteps almost every 10 years, for as long as 30-40 years at a time, making it the most desolate time in that region's history - need to look at causes not who was ruling.

I have another question will anyone care at page 100 ?

I have another question (aiming at 100 page ?!?), do you guys think Israeli army never used Palestinian as a shield ?

1. It doesn't state a specific incident.
2. I said an unbiased source - the New york times? Get me a UN report, an Amnesty International report. I'll accept a gaurdian report at the very least.
3. Gaza is one of the most densely populated cages in the world. You can't take a step to the left or right without coming into contact with a civilian. Have you seen the size of the Gaza strip?

Source

This is only one "poll", but given it's coming from a site that's pushing for understand and peace between Muslims and non-Muslims (a goal I agree with).

But even it's endorsing the 93% number of non-extremists. Meaning 7% are. As such, you're look at potentially up to 7% of Muslims ready and willing to commit acts of violence on behalf of their religion.

Which, using your number of 1.7B, is 119,000,000.

So if even 1% of those people actually buy into the religious basis for violence, that's an army of over a million religious zealots ready to kill and die for the sake of religion.

history has proven, that:
1. Peace is ephemeral - or it has just not been properly written and consolidated.
2 War is inevitable when one government covets another country's resources and prosperity - Agreed. But whats wrong with that? Whats the alternative - let it slide brah?
3. Historically speaking, the Jewish people are the single most discriminated people ever by the Europeans. (FTFY)
4. The Ottoman empire was not all that peaceful - compared to the other empires, it was.
5. I should read more on Al Andulus - yep.
6. The "most prosperous time" circa 800-1100AD, was the most devastating time under Muslim rule, with war on their doorsteps almost every 10 years, for as long as 30-40 years at a time, making it the most desolate time in that region's history - need to look at causes not who was ruling.