Please Sign In To Stop Genocide In Palestine

I guess Nikolce has a point if we want the thread to die and all, so I'll keep it short.

I'm not interested in a PM discussion as I have nothing to discuss with you specifically.
My point has been made, even if it wasn't understood or accepted by most people, it was made and some people have understood it. That's all that matters.

As for "earning my hatred", I've earned it years ago when it comes to FFXI, I've never had a good image or anything around here for as long as I remember, and I do not worry about painting a false image of myself. If people hate me for things that are superfluous, then so be it.

We reached page nine (and went to 17) that is all that really matters in any discussion.

Speaking of cures, how bout that Hep C cure goin for 1k per pill? I think i'd rather suffer in silence that pay that.

We're all aware, and as far as I'm concerned, the people behind the newest movie should all be hung for their crimes.

I had literally forgotten about that sheer stupidity until you just reminded us all, thanks.

Ugh...I didn't really want to participate in this thread more than I wanted.

Senkyuutai,

This is purely observational and retrospectively thinking about education in the US, and I'm not trying to justify it by any means, but I've felt as though the US gives a more edited and almost nationalistic perspective of history at the pre-collegiate level. (Granted, this could just be from state-to-state.) I think that European history (solely European history), as well as introducing a Middle Eastern/Asian History class, should be mandatory and not an elective, because the World History class that is mandatory is a slap-dash, condensed crash-course, even on the Advanced Placement level.

I've wondered if it's because of the geographic "isolation" that creates a detachment, in a way (?), and makes it acceptable to either skirt or spin a global perspective as far as US public school education, which is on the decline. Seriously, if it doesn't have to do with the US, it's given in broad-strokes. Maybe that could be the subconscious catalyst for these abrasively patriotic, narcissistic perspectives of the US's role in the world?

Where as, in Europe the immediacy of the cause and effect of events through out history and the proximity of Europe to areas who are in cyclical conflict makes it harder to turn a blind eye. Europe also deals with a more heterogeneous population, and has for centuries.

Just throwing that out there. I know there's no consolation in it, and I want to reiterate that this is not an excuse. I don't even know how to thoroughly explain it without stepping on toes here.

TBH, you shouldn't be surprised that we, as children, are given more time into regional/American history and less time in European/Asian history.

You do remember the Texas Board of Education's required history and cultural classload for the 12 years of primary education includes 3 years of Texas History and 2 years of American History. Since history isn't offered every year, and basically we get only 6 years of 12 for history, that really limits on total history we learn from primary school.

And you shouldn't be surprised also that Europeans are more interested in teaching European History and less Asian and American history, and Asians are more interested in teaching Asian History, and less European and American History.

Interesting, here in VA we had History or some Social science every year, at least as far back as I can recall the curriculum, which is about to 5th grade.

I don't see the point in learning about certain things like 5 different times though, 2 should be enough, once when younger and can enjoy the field trip, and then once when older an expected to remember all the *** things.

I wish I knew I was mildly dyslexic when I was growing up, I'd have had less of an issue "learning" dates, and semantic differences between things. Or maybe not, as most just don't give a ***what year certain events were.

But I digress...

Your ignorance is astounding.

*rolls eyes*

You're ignorant of just what state the rest of the world was in 1,436 years ago.
Once enlightened and aware of just how primitive science was, you would find the quotes from the Quran to be miraculous.

Anyone who has read even the slightest bit of history would understand.

There are scientists, leaders in their fields, who have converted to the religion after having read these verses because it is impossible for man to have known these things in 600 BC.

But never mind that, please continue to be ignorant.

You're stupid to let a book dictate your life.

Lol.
You know there's also people who believe an alien race ruled in that part of the world and gave all such knowledge to humans? Then eventually when they left it turned over time into a monotheistic religion.

We can apply a lot of things to many things, doesn't mean they're necessarily true.

I respect people's faith and you're free to believe in your holy texts, but keep it to yourself, and more importantly don't jump on those who don't have your same beliefs..which coincidentially is also why this thread exists in the first place.

So the conflict in the region started in 2007 and it's all because of Turkey and Iran; did I get that right ?

Jeez all for a piece of chicken! I know it tastes good but have some restraint people!

You're stupid for letting the media dictate yours.

I have underestimated this community's idiocy.

Don't assume, it makes an *** out of u and me.

I'll just roll my eyes again.

Maybe if you used your eyes for doing something productive like actually reading instead of rolling them you wouldn't be so blind and ignorant.

Wow you just devolved even further. If you're gonna act like a child, kindly gtfo

If you didn't pick it up beforehand, no, I'm not surprised. I'm trying to give an explanation to the guy.

It used to be two years of Texas History. The first was combined with American History in the forth grade and the second in the seventh grade, but realistically, what does it do for us? Prepares us for a rare, random pop of Texas History during a round of Trivial Pursuit? All it does is reinforce Texas pride, but then again, states like California have a similar history and demographics, minus the revolution, add the gold rush (as one example).

Europeans are given a more well-rounded, comprehensive education in history than we are, and in turn, it provides a better understanding of the circumstances as they are now. Not only that, but Kindergarten starts from age three. "Pre-K" is purely American, and what's worse, is that public Pre-K is contingent on the income that your family brings in, when it should be provided across the board. It's more or less free day care for low-income families, which is fine, but it should include everyone and be set to the standards that Europe follows. Kids get a two year head-start.

It is also mandatory to be in your secondary language at the elementary level. Here, you qualify in middle school (when Europe starts introducing their tertiary language) provided you meet the standards of the standardized test du jour (which TX has been cycling through for a decade, because the TEA continually flops and have to cover their collective ***). Most people start their secondary language in high school here. My mother was told by my second grade teacher to stop using German in the household, and come to find out over a decade later, learning/sustaining a secondary language is easier if you start earlier.

Our Spanish and/or French classes were a joke. Can you admit that? A friend who teaches Spanish in a rural school, who is Mexican, had to dash her Dia De Los Muertos cultural study in light of parental complaints from Baptists/evangelicals who equate it the holiday with "witchcraft" and worshiping of the dead last year. How do you justify this kind of redacted study that goes hand-in-hand with learning, not only the language, but the culture?

What is even available in individual schools/districts is dependent on funding, which pulls the rug out from under rural/low-income schools. In my opinion, the lack of Advanced Placement programs and/or an array of electives hurts education in different districts.

Not even going to touch in historical inequities of the content of our textbooks for WWI and WWII. Ugh...Don't bring TX education into this.

EDIT: Crazy thought. We should adopt European year-around schooling too.

Ah.

Languages are my weakest subject. Even while I studied abroad in Japan, I had to take level 1 Japanese twice (did much better the second time around, go figure). I would have to take your word for it.


I would pitch a fit, but then again, I don't have to worry about primary schooling for the rest of my life so I really don't care anymore lol.

I like most of that Zah save for the year round schooling. It's not cost effective to keep firing on all four cylinders, having to pay teachers with the already limited funding schools have now. ;-; it sucks because it would be nice to have the system, but education has seen so many cuts that it's a wonder we still have a serious education program

This is a very good post, and I agree 100%. When I was younger and more naive, I thought Israel was the bad guy, because they were the oppressors, the ones with the power, and it's easier to support an underdog. As I got older, I see more that some Palestinians use barbaric methods to advance their cause, and that neither side is totally committed to peaceful coexistence.

As an American, I just say "keep us out of it." I don't care what your 1500 or 4000 year old book of mythology says. I won't have my tax dollars going to fund senseless violence by either side. And you're starting to see this perspective enter the mainstream of American politics. Slowly now, but in the last decade I've seen it more and more, both from the left and the right.

it's a great idea.... probably take a generation or two to get it implemented... then a third before we see the effects take hold... call it sixty years.... give or take a decade...

yeah....

so we'll get back to you in somewhere around 2080ish?...

the palestinians can hang on until then...

/signs off on it

I think there is room for public discourse on Jews and the Holocaust that can be done respectfully, and I agree that some Jews don't see to want this kind of discourse for some reason. However, much of the "debate" on the Holocaust is outright lies, or justifications for what happened, and the ones raising the issues have despicable agendas like neo-Nazi's, racists, and Arabs who want no less than the eradication of Israel.

Also, please stop painting all Americans with the same brush. Not all of us are myopic "shoot first ask questions later" cowboy types. I should point out that, in 2000, our population actually didn't elect that kind of President, but rather he got into office by corruption and nepotism. The posters here are not representative of the average American. Very few of us feel like Vic, that the Palestinians should all be wiped out. I think most Americans want peace and a two-state solution. We're tired of being drug into this mess by our politicians, who are catering to a tiny but powerful demographic of Americans, and a larger demographic of lunatic Christian fundamentalists.


Because of the Biblical and historical significance of the persecution of the Jews, and because in America the other victims of the Holocaust are marginalized, where Jewish-Americans are not, generally, anymore.

Yes, I agree/am aware of the part regarding proximity. I always find it cute when an American genuinely asks about how it feels to live close to other countries because it makes you feel like you have a very special situation here.

I just believe that, especially when it's a "debate", people have to be open minded and try to understand the different situation before getting really into it. I have met a lot of Americans who simply say "I don't/wouldn't know" and these people are perfectly respectable. The people I have been pointing at are people that "think that they know", because for them, having an opinion at all automatically gives them credit, automatically makes them know, automatically makes their input to be respected and accepted. It is perfectly fine when it's about some typical US issues, but in a thread like this, opening with Viciousss' post, well, it gives a VERY different vibe than the usual stupidities seen around here. And this is a typical US mentality/mindset/attitude. Sure, there are stubborn/dumb people everywhere in the world, but as you pointed out, these non-US people when it comes to international stuff come with a much bigger baggage than the usual American, due to school alone, and it makes it a really weird feeling to see Viciousss' post and know that he's 100% serious.

But you used the perfect word for it, "narcissistic". I just would hope that when someone put it in the terms you just did, it would reach them. I hope it did at least.

I guess I generalized too much but I did also explain accurately: when I mentioned Americans, I specifically meant the usual guys that post in every P&R threads. I find it really funny/sad that the guys that post in every of these threads share the same ignorance and narrow mindedness. Being ignorant is perfectly fine if you're looking to actually expand your knowledge and are as such a well waiting for information to fill you. I don't see any well of information waiting to be filled here, they all come with their logic, they all came with a specific result and in their mind, it was a perfectly flawless way of thinking.

As much as the US education is a joke (I don't think a country has a perfect education, but the US is clearly below average for the reasons you have given, in 2014 it's worrisome), I don't want to blame it. It is up to the individual's curiosity and actual intelligence to go beyond that and reach a state where they can grasp what education couldn't teach them.

At the end of the day, each human chooses his/her own path and they also choose to see their own limitations and accept them. I'm not saying I'm above these guys in general, I'm not saying I'm better, I'm saying that on the specific topic discussed in this very thread, the people targeted would have spent their time better if they stuck to the Obamacare thread. I have my own limits which is why I do not post in American-related threads as I do not grasp their situation there. As my mom would say, "know your place". I'm not going to open 20 links, spend 30min reading them all and suddenly pop up on one of those Obamacare threads and shower people with my "knowledge" and "opinion".

But this kind of logic/mindset is something that flew completely above their heads. All they saw, like King, is an attack, an offense. They can't just sit there and think, think, think, then understand that despite their internet persona being thrown mud at, they are unable to clean it, and that's just how it is in this case.

I don't know, I completely understand your point and I find it unfair that the US system is different, but a part of myself cannot empathize with people who choose the lazy way of thinking that their cozy little world's view of the rest of the world is reality and do not ever question it, acknowledging it as real.