Command To Change Multiple Pieces Of Gear

Langues: JP EN DE FR
users online
Forum » FFXI » General » Command to Change Multiple Pieces of Gear
Command to Change Multiple Pieces of Gear
First Page 2 3 4 5 6
 Ragnarok.Sekundes
Offline
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
user: Sekundes
Posts: 4189
By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2014-07-22 10:27:01
Link | Citer | R
 
I'm of the opinion that I care about my friends who I party with enough so I'd rather not waste their time by being a dead weight. Proper swapping isn't all about how well you parse or e-peen, it's about making sure you have what it takes to clear content so you don't fail over and over. Some jobs have it a bit easier. You can do okay on a healer with minimal swaps but if someone dies because you don't have enough fc to get a cure off in time or can't keep statuses off or can't remove doom because you don't use any of the cursna gear... It's all on you. If you play with people who don't care or are solo then by all means.
[+]
 Bahamut.Greyfawkz
Offline
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: gymj1m
Posts: 451
By Bahamut.Greyfawkz 2014-07-22 10:32:28
Link | Citer | R
 
Not sure why one would choose to play this game and not use gearswaps.. it's one of the better things about this game.

lazy people gonna lazy.
[+]
Offline
Posts: 885
By Sieha1 2014-07-22 10:32:53
Link | Citer | R
 
Fenrir.Atheryn said: »
I suppose you could also argue that if you've got time to keep track of who is and isn't swapping gear in your party, you're not paying enough attention to your own job...

Experienced players are often very much auto pilot when it comes to their 'usual' jobs. This affords plenty of time to watch other players sucking.

If a run fails, it is important to know why and who not to bring next time. Otherwise it is the definition of insanity.
 Lakshmi.Byrth
VIP
Offline
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
user: Byrthnoth
Posts: 6138
By Lakshmi.Byrth 2014-07-22 10:40:01
Link | Citer | R
 
It's frequently not worth weeding out exactly why a particular player sucks. I can't even name ten people on my server who don't gearswap, because I always just look at the parse and go "well, that person is never coming again" without really diagnosing what their problem is. If someone could parse respectably while not gear swapping, I'd probably keep inviting them to events.

In the few cases where I have noticed players that are not changing gear, though, it has really been the icing on the cake. Typically such players are so stubborn and terrible at their jobs that they'd be ***-tier even if they did change gear.
[+]
 Valefor.Sehachan
Guide Maker
Offline
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
user: Seha
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-07-22 10:40:09
Link | Citer | R
 
Sieha1 said: »
Experienced players are often very much auto pilot when it comes to their 'usual' jobs.
This is very normal actually, it's mechanical memory. Once you've been doing a simingly repetitive task for a long time you start being able to do it with very minimal attention. This is also where most events fail..think of zergs, at some point your brains goes 'idle' and you just automatically hit your ws macro when you reach 1k TP without even releazing, cause there's nothing else to pay attention to and the response of your body to the impulse is natural.
Offline
Posts: 885
By Sieha1 2014-07-22 10:50:46
Link | Citer | R
 
Lets also get into the real meat of this issue. If a player doesnt gear swap they dont need to be in end game. Not saying they suck and will cause issues, what I am saying is that they dont need the gear from end game because its mostly macro swap gear anyway! why join a Tenzen shout if you dont gear swap. or well anything else. So sparks for RF gear, and a win or two from delve and they have all the gear they ever will use!
[+]
VIP
Offline
Posts: 21757
By Kalila 2014-07-22 11:19:54
Link | Citer | R
 
FaeQueenCory said: »
Ragnarok.Afania said: »
Using windower is not "legit" based on agreement. Regardless of what others say. I don't mind ppl parse higher than me with it. I don't tell others not to use it either. I just hate it when ppl try to justify it, or try to imply that "is a silly choice" for not using it.
Gear swapping wasn't created by Windower, it was created by the game developers. The game developers gave you the tools to do so if you so wished, except it was limited due to a console generation, and was too deeply coded into the core of the game to change it.

They did expand the macro system though. On Nov. 20, 2007 (over 6 1/2 years ago) they introduce the most game changing expansion to the macro system:

The "Macros" option in the main menu has been expanded to contain 20 macro "books."
It is possible to register up to ten "sets" of macros within each book. Each macro book can be labeled with any name the player chooses.

New text commands have been added:
/macro

/macro
Individual macro books or sets can be selected by combining the "/macro" command with the "book" and "set" subcommands.

Example:
To select Book 15
/macro book 15

To select Book 15 Set 3
/macro book 15
/macro set 3

This made it much easier and more practical for console and non-windower players to seek out and reach greater levels of performance. However, even with this change the delay between changing gear was far too much to the point where certain performance tweaks weren't worth the extra time. The built in delay of the system isn't a game design choice, it is a security blanket to account for lag. I don't remember the time each line took, and I don't want to say it took 1 second per line, but it might have been.

Windower came along to break away from limitations, and is the purpose of the project. What has Windower given to the community of FFXI as a whole, even for console and non windower players?

  • It put the game into a window. Players wanted to be able to switch out to different windows and multitaks while the game was still running without it crashing. During the same update as above, on Nov. 20, 2007 FFXI developers introduced the "Run in Windowed Mode" option in FFXI config. This was the very first influence Windower made on the FFXI community, and it didn't stop there.

  • Other less influential updates were:


FFXIAH is also a partner site of Windower and Guildwork, and gave us the tools to browse the AH while offline, keep track of sales, and various other tools.

I'm sure I'm missing a few updates but that is what I remember.

Ultimately Windower is a 3rd party program for Final Fantasy XI that offers many positive enhancements to the game. It began as a simple program to allow the game to run in windowed mode and has evolved into a full game enhancer.

Quote:
We attempt to bring many positive enhancements to the game while striving to not hurt other players' gaming experience. Our goal is to make the game more enjoyable and enhanced in the areas that the PS2 is holding the game back.




This is the purpose of Windower, however, it is 3rd party program. It does break the ToS, and it can get you banned if you use it. Yet they still worked hard to enhance the game, to make it better where the developers could not. It's not even that the developers would not, as anyone who knows development takes time in XI, and a single update that is meaningful to the community can take years to be implemented.

Players took meaningful Quality of Life enhancements to the game in their own hands. Just think of how much you've dreamed that the game had this, or could do this, but you don't have the experience to do it yourself. Many players were influenced by Windower to learn how to program to do exactly that. To make meaningful updates that they controlled without relying on SE to do it for them.

These updates that the players made themselves where even implemented into the game as I showed above. SE took their hard work, their inspiration and imagination, and made it into a permanent update that will last for the game's lifespan. That player influenced the game to the point that they made a difference, not only for their own dreams as to what they wanted the game to have, but for everyone to enjoy on all platforms.



I think that's just the coolest thing about Windower, that you can make a difference in your game. Yes..., there is a lot of negative that Windower introduced, and a lot of exploits, that ended up hurting the community too. There is no doubt that people bot and use hacks that give them an unfair advantage over any console or legit player. It's unfair to them, that they have to use the system that was given to them while others blatantly cheat for their own advantage.

However, it is of my own personal opinion that the good Windower provided to the FFXI community far outweighs the bad in the end. There are always going to be those who exploit and cheat, and they don't even need Windower to do this. The purpose of Windower is not to go to such extremes that people have come to know, it is to enhance the game and make it more rich with UI updates, map updates, HD icons, plugins that show information that is already sent to you and SE is slowly working towards giving us this information. It's goal is to bring out the good in the game and make it better, even if it might slip and cross the line on a few points, or give too much power to the user.

In the end it's purpose is to extend the lifespan of the game by making it better without SE having to spend development resources to do it. SE will never officially announce that they are okay with Windower, but as I showed above, they aren't afraid to silently tip their hat to them by making an idea permanent that everyone can enjoy.
[+]
Offline
Posts: 42646
By Jetackuu 2014-07-22 11:23:40
Link | Citer | R
 
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
People who don't change gear aren't worth bringing to endgame, ever. That's not an opinion.
opinion
[+]
 Cerberus.Conagh
Offline
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
user: onagh
Posts: 3189
By Cerberus.Conagh 2014-07-22 11:26:16
Link | Citer | R
 
Ragnarok.Afania said: »
Using windower is not "legit" based on agreement. Regardless of what others say. I don't mind ppl parse higher than me with it. I don't tell others not to use it either. I just hate it when ppl try to justify it, or try to imply that "is a silly choice" for not using it.

See, I take exception to this, during the VW era I used to Play an XBOX and be on BLU mage (we all know how much a gearswap job blu is) and I had 3 books filled with complex macros for swapping gears for EVERY spell and ws.

And I won a few of those parses in VW procing all my spells and dding at the same time. I was beating SAM and DRK's as a BLU on xbox.

Not saying I'm amazing (Although I am really in sub text) but it is Doable on an inferior machine, using an inferior system, to perform well.

Although when I used windower, I did see a rather marked improvement in game play, and this crippling injury to my left hand from a motorcycle accident, certainly didn't feel as painful hitting 1 macro rather than 31 different buttons . . .
VIP
Offline
Posts: 21757
By Kalila 2014-07-22 11:28:09
Link | Citer | R
 
Cerberus.Conagh said: »
Ragnarok.Afania said: »
Using windower is not "legit" based on agreement. Regardless of what others say. I don't mind ppl parse higher than me with it. I don't tell others not to use it either. I just hate it when ppl try to justify it, or try to imply that "is a silly choice" for not using it.

See, I take exception to this, during the VW era I used to Play an XBOX and be on BLU mage (we all know how much a gearswap job blu is) and I had 3 books filled with complex macros for swapping gears for EVERY spell and ws.

And I won a few of those parses in VW procing all my spells and dding at the same time. I was beating SAM and DRK's as a BLU on xbox.

Not saying I'm amazing (Although I am really in sub text) but it is Doable on an inferior machine, using an inferior system, to perform well.

Although when I used windower, I did see a rather marked improvement in game play, and this crippling injury to my left hand from a motorcycle accident, certainly didn't feel as painful hitting 1 macro rather than 31 different buttons . . .
ConaghI'm amazing

:)
[+]
 Cerberus.Conagh
Offline
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
user: onagh
Posts: 3189
By Cerberus.Conagh 2014-07-22 11:39:03
Link | Citer | R
 
Kalila said: »
Cerberus.Conagh said: »
Ragnarok.Afania said: »
Using windower is not "legit" based on agreement. Regardless of what others say. I don't mind ppl parse higher than me with it. I don't tell others not to use it either. I just hate it when ppl try to justify it, or try to imply that "is a silly choice" for not using it.

See, I take exception to this, during the VW era I used to Play an XBOX and be on BLU mage (we all know how much a gearswap job blu is) and I had 3 books filled with complex macros for swapping gears for EVERY spell and ws.

And I won a few of those parses in VW procing all my spells and dding at the same time. I was beating SAM and DRK's as a BLU on xbox.

Not saying I'm amazing (Although I am really in sub text) but it is Doable on an inferior machine, using an inferior system, to perform well.

Although when I used windower, I did see a rather marked improvement in game play, and this crippling injury to my left hand from a motorcycle accident, certainly didn't feel as painful hitting 1 macro rather than 31 different buttons . . .
ConaghI'm amazing

:)

hey! just making a point, I could beat Windower players, because a sucky player is sucky regardless of the tools they use.
 Valefor.Sehachan
Guide Maker
Offline
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
user: Seha
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-07-22 11:43:29
Link | Citer | R
 
Cerberus.Conagh said: »
a sucky player is sucky regardless of the tools they use
That's always gonna be a moot argument, cause at equal skill the one with better tools wins.

"There are bad players aroud" well, no ***.
VIP
Offline
Posts: 21757
By Kalila 2014-07-22 11:57:06
Link | Citer | R
 
It will always be Skill > Gear > Platform & Tools

Let's say we have a windower user who uses spellcast, with gear that is about 75% BiS, but they are lazy and don't try very hard

3 + 7 + 5 = 15

Then let's say we have a console player who is well geared and they know their job well, and does their best.

10 + 10 + 1 = 21

However, if the 2nd player moved to the platform and tools the first player had they would have 25 instead.

Ignoring my nonsensical math above, the platform will hold you back no matter what you argue, but that doesn't mean you can't perform well. If you perform really well on console, you will perform even better given the right platform and tools to do so. That doesn't mean you need it, but you are purposefully handicapping yourself.

I'm not trying to make an argument to use windower or anything, just trying to make a point that maybe I shouldn't try to make :x
[+]
Offline
Posts: 1533
By ScaevolaBahamut 2014-07-22 12:24:53
Link | Citer | R
 
That's patently false when applied to a game like FFXI where basically all situational awareness involves changing gear and can thus be automated (which is, of course, what gearswap is all about).

I don't have a problem with it, personally; FFXI's always favored preparation over skill/reflexes and carrying around 5 pieces of gear for when I specifically have haste and two marches seems pretty in keeping with that. But it's super disingenuous to lump copying somebody's code to make sure gearswap handles that for me in with any definition of video game skill somebody not interested in self-congratulation would recognize.
 Carbuncle.Bukadan
Offline
Serveur: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
user: bukasmith
Posts: 280
By Carbuncle.Bukadan 2014-07-22 15:19:11
Link | Citer | R
 
kalila has never made a false point.
 Cerberus.Conagh
Offline
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
user: onagh
Posts: 3189
By Cerberus.Conagh 2014-07-23 12:00:49
Link | Citer | R
 
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Cerberus.Conagh said: »
a sucky player is sucky regardless of the tools they use
That's always gonna be a moot argument, cause at equal skill the one with better tools wins.

"There are bad players aroud" well, no ***.

My point wasn't about whether WIndower > POL, I think we all see the value in using Windower.

However... I prefer not using windower, I miss the furious button bashing on my control pad (felt like street fighter), the movement controls were far more sensitive.

However there came a point where carryin x number of gear for x reasons for x things, and then xbox ram / performance issues in high populated areas / additional effects / being able to alt tab for quest details, became too advantagious to go back for me.

My point is simply that you Don't need windower to be good but I agree it can make you better, the system encourages laziness which assuming you put your mind to other uses IE assessing the situation, you improve, but if your brain turns to squish cos you're bored, then you'll suck, so there is an argument to be made for both.
 Cerberus.Anjisnu
Offline
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
user: anjisnu
Posts: 2803
By Cerberus.Anjisnu 2014-07-23 12:03:53
Link | Citer | R
 
Your brain is haggis
[+]
Offline
Posts: 573
By lhova 2014-07-23 17:17:47
Link | Citer | R
 
Hooray! As a console player I always used macros but it just sucked when you had to cycle between 3 macros, lag, and other issues that made it tough to compete with windower players. Hopefully they will have the setup where you can macro sets and atts/casts and return to sets seemlessly. I can't wait for this update because it may not put console users equal to pc/windower players but it should certainly narrow the gap. I honestly hate though wnen some windower users attempt to say that it doesn't give them a significant advantage over console or vanilla users.
Offline
Posts: 12599
By Pantafernando 2014-07-25 05:34:33
Link | Citer | R
 
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/43454

So far, so great.
 Phoenix.Baelorn
Offline
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: Baelorn
Posts: 857
By Phoenix.Baelorn 2014-07-25 06:27:34
Link | Citer | R
 
Pantafernando said: »

Has way more functionality than I expected(esp that "Use Current" option). Being able to make the sets without moving gear around will be really convenient too.
 Lakshmi.Byrth
VIP
Offline
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
user: Byrthnoth
Posts: 6138
By Lakshmi.Byrth 2014-07-25 06:35:26
Link | Citer | R
 
I hope that they introduce a new equip packet for it that allows 16 swaps at once. It would have to be at least 16x3+4 bytes long, but they would probably make it 68 bytes. Would be useful for gearswap.
[+]
Offline
Posts: 1273
By FaeQueenCory 2014-07-25 07:26:40
Link | Citer | R
 
Pantafernando said: »
ONLY complaint so far...
And it's really a "complaint" and not a real complaint.
Is that it was teased with "you'll have ~100 sets!"... 1/5 that is... Minorly disappointing.
But at least it seems that they're gonna up the number... Hopefully at the very least to 50.
(Though maybe they made only 20 so that they can be saved to the server?? If so, kudos.)
 Bismarck.Snprphnx
Offline
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
user: Snprphnx
Posts: 2693
By Bismarck.Snprphnx 2014-07-25 07:31:57
Link | Citer | R
 
20 sets is a good start. At least enough to cover a few melee jobs basic needs. Or 1-2 Mage jobs.
Offline
Posts: 393
By cervelo84 2014-07-25 12:41:54
Link | Citer | R
 
This is amazing, congrats to all the console users. I know a lot of console users don't gearswap because its more inefficient when scrolling through 4 macro lines/ dealing w/lag - aka 10 seconds wasted and gearswap isn't needed by then.

Especially nice for scholar..fast cast set for sutn, MAB for nukes.. cure set. Regen / pdt/mdt set. That's 4 sets right there.
 Ragnarok.Sekundes
Offline
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
user: Sekundes
Posts: 4189
By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2014-07-25 13:02:44
Link | Citer | R
 
Lakshmi.Byrth said: »
I hope that they introduce a new equip packet for it that allows 16 swaps at once. It would have to be at least 16x3+4 bytes long, but they would probably make it 68 bytes. Would be useful for gearswap.
That would be nice, but I feel what they are going to end up doing is just sending a "equip set01" or "equip set20" packet rather than all 16 slots in one packet. Or hell, it could be possible they aren't changing anything outside of the UI and it will send each one separate ^^;
 Lakshmi.Byrth
VIP
Offline
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
user: Byrthnoth
Posts: 6138
By Lakshmi.Byrth 2014-07-25 13:18:26
Link | Citer | R
 
Ragnarok.Sekundes said: »
Lakshmi.Byrth said: »
I hope that they introduce a new equip packet for it that allows 16 swaps at once. It would have to be at least 16x3+4 bytes long, but they would probably make it 68 bytes. Would be useful for gearswap.
That would be nice, but I feel what they are going to end up doing is just sending a "equip set01" or "equip set20" packet rather than all 16 slots in one packet. Or hell, it could be possible they aren't changing anything outside of the UI and it will send each one separate ^^;

That's actually the only alternative. They've already said that they aren't going to be storing the equipment sets on the server (and thus you can't sync them between computers easily), so there's no real chance they'll be sending a packet that designates a particular equipment set.
[+]
Offline
Posts: 573
By lhova 2014-07-25 14:24:24
Link | Citer | R
 
I know I'm probably the only one who doesn't understand what Byrth is referring to but what do you mean by packet? My ideal situation of this system would be that I'm able make sets for my Sam for TP and WS which let's assume changes all equipment peices. SO the macro would ideally equip WS set, WS, equip TP set (with perhaps so wait command in there) and I'm off and getting tp again. If this is the case this would be HUGE for console players since the lag can br a real issue and sometimes hitting the 2nd macro to quick can lead to the first macro not executing.
Offline
Posts: 530
By Heimdel 2014-07-25 15:00:36
Link | Citer | R
 
Side effect of this is there will probably be a increase off accessory gear and specialty stat bonus gear like fastcast and others where people just didn't have room in macros to equip it before.
Offline
Posts: 530
By Heimdel 2014-07-25 15:02:57
Link | Citer | R
 
FaeQueenCory said: »
Pantafernando said: »
ONLY complaint so far...
And it's really a "complaint" and not a real complaint.
Is that it was teased with "you'll have ~100 sets!"... 1/5 that is... Minorly disappointing.
But at least it seems that they're gonna up the number... Hopefully at the very least to 50.
(Though maybe they made only 20 so that they can be saved to the server?? If so, kudos.)

They are probably doing it like this to test it and make sure it doesn't completely crash the system like the original AH did.
Log in to post.