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Random Politics & Religion #00
By Jassik 2015-09-03 22:10:50
Would you expect a Muslim catering service to provide pork?
And when they refuse would you claim they are forcing their beliefs on you?
If they were elected to serve pork to the constituents of the county? Yes, I would.
Don't confuse private enterprise with functions of the government. Failing to provide a service of the state is a dereliction of duty. Separation of church and state is a real thing, and if she didn't want to do her job, she should have resigned, period.
You're either trolling, or being purposefully obtuse about the whole topic. Then impeach her.
Government employees are OUR EMPLOYEES. We own the government, NOT the other way around.
I don't view elected officials any different than the employee at McDonalds, except for the fact that I hired the official and not the McDonalds employee. This gives us the right to fire our own employees. McDonalds does not send their employees to McPrison for failing to do their job and neither should we. Just simply fire the woman and move on.
I'm stating the truth as I see it and if that offends anyone I will pray for them. I will not be ashamed or intimidated when it comes to bringing light to the truth.
No, the contention isn't even who she works for or whether her religious convictions matter, it's that it would require a special session of the state congress to initiate and conduct an impeachment process. You don't just call a couple guys and get an OK.
 Valefor.Endoq
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By Valefor.Endoq 2015-09-03 22:16:23
No, the contention isn't even who she works for or whether her religious convictions matter, it's that it would require a special session of the state congress to initiate and conduct an impeachment process. You don't just call a couple guys and get an OK. Well that is why we have those people. Make them get to work. In the long run it will cost tax payers less for government to do its damn job and keep things in order.
By Jassik 2015-09-03 22:21:10
No, the contention isn't even who she works for or whether her religious convictions matter, it's that it would require a special session of the state congress to initiate and conduct an impeachment process. You don't just call a couple guys and get an OK. Well that is why we have those people. Make them get to work. In the long run it will cost tax payers less for government to do it's damn job and keep things in order.
It seems like crisis averted for the moment, but I'd assume that people could file suits for discrimination just based on the delay and the previous judgement. In the long run, that will cost the state a lot more than holding a special session.
Valefor.Endoq
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By Valefor.Endoq 2015-09-03 22:31:47
So many seem to be missing the point that no one should be forced into doing anything they don't feel comfortable with. How is it so many people are not seeing this as a double standard?
Administrator
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By Drama Torama 2015-09-03 22:37:13
So many seem to be missing the point that no one should be forced into doing anything they don't feel comfortable with. How is it so many people are not seeing this as a double standard?
The part where someone's an elected official who's not upholding the law?
If you can not or will not follow the law, as an elected official, you need to be removed, full stop. What's so complicated about that?
By Jassik 2015-09-03 22:40:33
So many seem to be missing the point that no one should be forced into doing anything they don't feel comfortable with. How is it so many people are not seeing this as a double standard?
Because the government cannot endorse any religious beliefs and government employees actually take an oath of office. Even the janitor at the courthouse took an oath of office. She isn't being forced to do something she isn't comfortable with, she's refusing to comply with a court order to issue licenses as is a duty of her position. It would be like an employee at Pizza Hut refusing to do anything that contributes to the production or consumption of pizza for a reason that isn't considered protected. Her religious beliefs are irrelevant, what matters is that she is being held in contempt of court for refusing to follow the law. If she's earnest enough in her beliefs to go to jail, she should be earnest enough to step down instead of trying to pull a power play.
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By Valefor.Endoq 2015-09-03 22:45:41
So many seem to be missing the point that no one should be forced into doing anything they don't feel comfortable with. How is it so many people are not seeing this as a double standard?
The part where someone's an elected official who's not upholding the law?
If you can not or will not follow the law, as an elected official, you need to be removed, full stop. What's so complicated about that? That's what I've been saying!
By Jassik 2015-09-03 22:48:02
So many seem to be missing the point that no one should be forced into doing anything they don't feel comfortable with. How is it so many people are not seeing this as a double standard?
The part where someone's an elected official who's not upholding the law?
If you can not or will not follow the law, as an elected official, you need to be removed, full stop. What's so complicated about that? That's what I've been saying!
You're saying it's a double standard, and you're right. That double standard was actually designed in for very good reason by people a lot smarter and more experienced with the evils of religious dogma creeping into government.
Valefor.Endoq
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By Valefor.Endoq 2015-09-03 22:49:49
Religion is only a tangent to the fact that being forced to do what you feel uncomfortable with is just simply wrong and no one should be forced to do what they don't feel comfortable with doing. The reasons why a person is uncomfortable are irrelevant and often times more complicated than the person who feels uncomfortable can even comprehend them self.
By Jassik 2015-09-03 22:51:46
Religion is only a tangent to the fact that being forced to do what you feel uncomfortable with is just simply wrong and no one should be forced to do what they don't feel comfortable with doing. The reasons why a person is uncomfortable are irrelevant and often times more complicated than the person who feels uncomfortable can even comprehend them self.
That's all well and good in the private sector, but to make a government work, volition isn't necessary. Either do the job you were appointed to do or head on out.
Valefor.Endoq
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By Valefor.Endoq 2015-09-03 22:55:34
Religion is only a tangent to the fact that being forced to do what you feel uncomfortable with is just simply wrong and no one should be forced to do what they don't feel comfortable with doing. The reasons why a person is uncomfortable are irrelevant and often times more complicated than the person who feels uncomfortable can even comprehend them self.
That's all well and good in the private sector, but to make a government work, volition isn't necessary. Either do the job you were appointed to do or head on out. Exactly my point.
Either do the job you were appointed to do or head on out.
Incarceration for failing to preform ones job however, is completely ridiculous. You don't jail an employee because of insubordination. This is a simple case of an insubordinate employee. Case closed.
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By Valefor.Endoq 2015-09-03 23:01:05
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »Religion is only a tangent to the fact that being forced to do what you feel uncomfortable with is just simply wrong and no one should be forced to do what they don't feel comfortable with doing. The reasons why a person is uncomfortable are irrelevant and often times more complicated than the person who feels uncomfortable can even comprehend them self.
This is not a matter of being forced to eat your vegetables off the floor.
This is a matter of the law happens to be making someone uncomfortable because in their mind these people don't deserve equal rights entitled to them by the law.
What is making them uncomfortable is the law, and they are not an elected vigilante there to pointlessly grief people and disrupt the legal process.
The reason they are incarcerated is because they are being held in contempt. There is a process out officials go through and willingly get involved to be subjected to by assuming the mantle. What part of:
Quote: Either do the job you were appointed to do or head on out. Is hard to get here?
Not all laws are just. A law sending someone to prison for failing to do their job is one such law.
By Jassik 2015-09-03 23:01:33
Religion is only a tangent to the fact that being forced to do what you feel uncomfortable with is just simply wrong and no one should be forced to do what they don't feel comfortable with doing. The reasons why a person is uncomfortable are irrelevant and often times more complicated than the person who feels uncomfortable can even comprehend them self.
That's all well and good in the private sector, but to make a government work, volition isn't necessary. Either do the job you were appointed to do or head on out. Exactly my point.
Either do the job you were appointed to do or head on out.
Incarceration for failing to preform ones job however, is completely ridiculous. You don't jail an employee because of insubordination. This is a simple case of an insubordinate employee. Case closed.
No, no... she's not being jailed because she refused to do her job, she's being jailed because a judge ordered that licenses be issued in accordance with the law. By refusing to issue them despite the judge's order, she's in contempt of court. That's why she's in jail.
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-09-03 23:11:10
She's not being put it jail for refusing to do her job. It's being defiant in the eyes of court, aka contempt. That defiance happens to be apart of her job duties to the people that elected her.
Basically, she's fighting for her beliefs in an entirely wrong and counterproductive way. She's the one closest of violating the separation between church and state here.
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By Valefor.Endoq 2015-09-03 23:17:18
(Also this)
By refusing to issue them despite the judge's order, she's in contempt of court. That's why she's in jail. Well I guess she should have stepped down at that point then.
Anyways, good for her for standing up for what she believes in...
Even though she made herself look like a hypocritical *** along with the name of her own faith.
I guess she should have made sure her own eye didn't have a log stuck in it before pointing out the splinter in another persons eye.
But then again the public mob would have used anything to shame her for not going with the flow.
If there was nothing to shame her with, they would have likely just made something up to shame her with anyways.
By Jassik 2015-09-03 23:21:02
By refusing to issue them despite the judge's order, she's in contempt of court. That's why she's in jail. Well I guess she should have stepped down at that point then.
Anyways, good for her for standing up for what she believes in...
Even though she made herself look like a hypocritical *** along with the name of her own faith.
I guess she should have made sure her own eye didn't have a log stuck in it before pointing out the splinter in another persons eye.
But then again the public mob would have used anything to shame her for not going with the flow.
If there was nothing to shame her with, they would have likely just made something up to shame her with anyways.
Naw, I can't imagine most people would have carried past the initial ridicule for quitting her job over it. Whether she should have stepped down is kinda moot at this point, though.
I feel bad for her, obviously she's very sincere about her beliefs, even if i don't share them. But, she's becoming a martyr for a cause that not nearly as many people as she thinks care as much as she does.
Give it a week, she'll be ready to either step down or sign the licenses.
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2015-09-03 23:39:34
The entire government of San Francisco should be thrown in jail.
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2015-09-03 23:51:10
Cmon now we are jailing elected officials that don't follow federal laws.
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-09-03 23:51:21
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »Phoenix.Amandarius said: »The entire government of San Francisco should be thrown in jail.
Sometimes I just feel lifting my hand into the air slowly, and then just letting it fall straight onto the keyboard randomly. Would be more than a fair response.
Here, let's try.
...
t kufy,r
24%.
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Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-09-04 00:04:48
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »Cmon now we are jailing elected officials that don't follow federal laws. I'd support this.
Let's extend it to any government official though.
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