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Random Politics & Religion #00
By fonewear 2015-08-17 09:30:10
i find it kind of bad that people think conspiracy is a something to laugh about or disregard as nonsense the definition is
"the action of plotting or conspiring. a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful."
in my opinion if you think about it without a biased view of the word that's our entire History of human civilization. A conspiracy means more than one person doing something for some purpose. Think about it seriously. Hell our founding fathers conspired to leave a empire, the Federal reserve was conspired about by very wealthy individuals and a senator. the black hand a ( terrorist group) conspired to assassinate archduke Francis Ferdinand which help start world war 1, its goes on and on. i do not find anything at all about the word conspiracy as something to laugh about or disregard as nonsense . When you can look at a lot of significant history and there are more than 1 person organizing and involved in a action or purpose.
You confuse what people laugh at: conspiracy theory with conspiracy.
Since we're using definitions (sorta):
conspiracy theory
Examples
noun
1.
a theory that explains an event as being the result of a plot by a covert group or organization; a belief that a particular unexplained event was caused by such a group.
2.
the idea that many important political events or economic and social trends are the products of secret plots that are largely unknown to the general public.
Do you not see why conspiracy theories are generally met with ridicule?
Questioning conspiracy theories... is a conspiracy theory !
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2015-08-17 10:49:48
Cerberus.Josiahfk said: »Phoenix.Amandarius said: »I'm going to start saying more positive things about posters here.
Aman rules! I am confident you can just discuss ideas and topics without resorting to straight up attacking whoever you're conversing with.
No one said anything along the lines of forcing people to compliment others, but instead expecting our being grown adults capable of healthy discussion.
Aman rules!
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 Caitsith.Zahrah
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By Caitsith.Zahrah 2015-08-17 11:35:35
I'm sorry. I had to.
 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-08-17 12:00:09
Probably won't do you any good, moderation is too forgiving towards the liberal front here where they are willing to topicban one insult made by a conservative but a liberal can make all the insults they want....
This is more a function of who does the reporting. I get a lot more reports on the conservative posts.
My response to a lot of it has been "eh, walk it off", but the law of numbers says that when some get acted on, if there's a majority on one side of report type, it'll be the type that appears to be favored from a policy angle.
I don't moderate according to any political position, and I would be pretty surprised if any of you could actually guess my real politics at all.
So more reports on the conservative posts means what exactly, the standard liberal crew gets more easily offended?
I am shocked I tell you, shocked!
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By Drama Torama 2015-08-17 12:08:49
So more reports on the conservative posts means what exactly, the standard liberal crew gets more easily offended?
I am shocked I tell you, shocked!
Nah, it's not as simple as "the conservatives are jerks" or "the liberals whine to the cops".
The more incendiary posters tend to skew right in the first place. It's clearly not a fundamental trait of that position, as there are plenty of people on that side who make well reasoned arguments. I've also found that they've (overall) got thicker skin/less desire to involve 'big government' as well, so they're less likely to report borderline stuff. So really, it's a little of column A, and a little of column B.
Anyway, none of that applies to any one person individually, just trends I've noticed in the course of doing this job.
I do always check for context, which means I spend a LOT of time reading P+R. Since this is like 890th on my list of things I want to accomplish on any given day, my tolerance for hijinks is pretty low, and not what we'd call "trending upward".
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-08-17 12:09:28
Probably won't do you any good, moderation is too forgiving towards the liberal front here where they are willing to topicban one insult made by a conservative but a liberal can make all the insults they want....
This is more a function of who does the reporting. I get a lot more reports on the conservative posts.
My response to a lot of it has been "eh, walk it off", but the law of numbers says that when some get acted on, if there's a majority on one side of report type, it'll be the type that appears to be favored from a policy angle.
I don't moderate according to any political position, and I would be pretty surprised if any of you could actually guess my real politics at all.
So more reports on the conservative posts means what exactly, the standard liberal crew gets more easily offended?
I am shocked I tell you, shocked!
It's not possible that posters can break forum rules or offend people regardless of political slant, eh? Is it just coincidence that a select few rude and aggressive people might share the same ideology and also the same bad behavior?
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-08-17 12:15:29
Probably won't do you any good, moderation is too forgiving towards the liberal front here where they are willing to topicban one insult made by a conservative but a liberal can make all the insults they want....
This is more a function of who does the reporting. I get a lot more reports on the conservative posts.
My response to a lot of it has been "eh, walk it off", but the law of numbers says that when some get acted on, if there's a majority on one side of report type, it'll be the type that appears to be favored from a policy angle.
I don't moderate according to any political position, and I would be pretty surprised if any of you could actually guess my real politics at all.
So more reports on the conservative posts means what exactly, the standard liberal crew gets more easily offended?
I am shocked I tell you, shocked!
It's not possible that posters can break forum rules or offend people regardless of political slant, eh? Is it just coincidence that a select few rude and aggressive people might share the same ideology and also the same bad behavior?
That would not be my bet on the current situation. Is it against the rules to be rude? Who's call is it on what is rude? Yours?
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By Drama Torama 2015-08-17 12:16:16
Who's call is it on what is rude? Yours?
Mine.
Quote: Is it against the rules to be rude?
While not strictly against the rules, it doesn't make me inclined to take someone's side if they're being a ***. I'm so sick of the negativity online in general, and this place is no better in a lot of respects.
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-08-17 12:20:07
Who's call is it on what is rude? Yours?
Mine.
Yes yes all hail the all powerful moderator. My overall point is that feeling offended is not a golden ticket to go running to a mod. I mean I learned that lesson in kindergarten.
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-08-17 12:20:47
Probably won't do you any good, moderation is too forgiving towards the liberal front here where they are willing to topicban one insult made by a conservative but a liberal can make all the insults they want....
This is more a function of who does the reporting. I get a lot more reports on the conservative posts.
My response to a lot of it has been "eh, walk it off", but the law of numbers says that when some get acted on, if there's a majority on one side of report type, it'll be the type that appears to be favored from a policy angle.
I don't moderate according to any political position, and I would be pretty surprised if any of you could actually guess my real politics at all.
So more reports on the conservative posts means what exactly, the standard liberal crew gets more easily offended?
I am shocked I tell you, shocked!
It's not possible that posters can break forum rules or offend people regardless of political slant, eh? Is it just coincidence that a select few rude and aggressive people might share the same ideology and also the same bad behavior?
That would not be my bet on the current situation. Is it against the rules to be rude? Who's call is it on what is rude? Yours?
I suppose ultimately the mods as far as this site goes, but saying people who think healthcare or food are a basic human right have a mental disorder or accusing trans of being perverse sexual predators is pretty rude in anyone's book.
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By Drama Torama 2015-08-17 12:23:02
Yes yes all hail the all powerful moderator. My overall point is that feeling offended is not a golden ticket to go running to a mod. I mean I learned that lesson in kindergarten.
And the "wahh my feels" reports get dismissed, which was the point I was making. If anything, they make me madder than some of the actual report-worthy stuff.
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-08-17 12:23:18
Who's call is it on what is rude? Yours?
Mine.
Yes yes all hail the all powerful moderator. My overall point is that feeling offended is not a golden ticket to go running to a mod. I mean I learned that lesson in kindergarten.
I very rarely report posts and don't currently have anyone blocked. But, freedom of speech only protects you from government censorship. The site staff can censor anything they like.
Edit: by very rarely I mean I've probably reported 3 posts in four years and never because it offended me.
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-08-17 12:25:30
Probably won't do you any good, moderation is too forgiving towards the liberal front here where they are willing to topicban one insult made by a conservative but a liberal can make all the insults they want....
This is more a function of who does the reporting. I get a lot more reports on the conservative posts.
My response to a lot of it has been "eh, walk it off", but the law of numbers says that when some get acted on, if there's a majority on one side of report type, it'll be the type that appears to be favored from a policy angle.
I don't moderate according to any political position, and I would be pretty surprised if any of you could actually guess my real politics at all.
So more reports on the conservative posts means what exactly, the standard liberal crew gets more easily offended?
I am shocked I tell you, shocked!
It's not possible that posters can break forum rules or offend people regardless of political slant, eh? Is it just coincidence that a select few rude and aggressive people might share the same ideology and also the same bad behavior?
That would not be my bet on the current situation. Is it against the rules to be rude? Who's call is it on what is rude? Yours?
I suppose ultimately the mods as far as this site goes, but saying people who think healthcare or food are a basic human right have a mental disorder or accusing trans of being perverse sexual predators is pretty rude in anyone's book.
I would point out I've never made those direct comparisons, only more broad generalizing ones but really it apparently doesn't matter. All that matters is that it is felt that I did.
So is calling someone who is skeptical of climate demagoguery a "science denier", so is calling someone who believes it an "alarmist". Like I said feeling offended is not a reason to go running to a mod.
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By fonewear 2015-08-17 12:27:08
This place isn't negative it's HIV positive !
[+]
By fonewear 2015-08-17 12:31:41
Sometimes being negative is a positive just saying !
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-08-17 12:37:46
Probably won't do you any good, moderation is too forgiving towards the liberal front here where they are willing to topicban one insult made by a conservative but a liberal can make all the insults they want....
This is more a function of who does the reporting. I get a lot more reports on the conservative posts.
My response to a lot of it has been "eh, walk it off", but the law of numbers says that when some get acted on, if there's a majority on one side of report type, it'll be the type that appears to be favored from a policy angle.
I don't moderate according to any political position, and I would be pretty surprised if any of you could actually guess my real politics at all.
So more reports on the conservative posts means what exactly, the standard liberal crew gets more easily offended?
I am shocked I tell you, shocked!
It's not possible that posters can break forum rules or offend people regardless of political slant, eh? Is it just coincidence that a select few rude and aggressive people might share the same ideology and also the same bad behavior?
That would not be my bet on the current situation. Is it against the rules to be rude? Who's call is it on what is rude? Yours?
I suppose ultimately the mods as far as this site goes, but saying people who think healthcare or food are a basic human right have a mental disorder or accusing trans of being perverse sexual predators is pretty rude in anyone's book.
I would point out I've never made those direct comparisons, only more broad generalizing ones but really it apparently doesn't matter. All that matters is that it is felt that I did.
So is calling someone who is skeptical of climate demagoguery a "science denier", so is calling someone who believes it an "alarmist". Like I said feeling offended is not a reason to go running to a mod.
You've said liberalism is a mental disorder at least a dozen times, but whatever. Climate denier isn't a derogatory term, neither is climate alarmist, calling 97% of scientists who've published papers and the people who agree/defer to their findings zealots or fascists is pushing the line. It's not even so much what people say as how they say it that factors into what is offensive, and you have an incredibly aggressive and rude way of saying things.
By fonewear 2015-08-17 12:39:49
Being rude is subjective though. If you are going to say someone is rude that may be their natural state of being. I don't think being offensive and being rude are the same thing.
Going out of your way to insult someone is one thing. Tone and way of acting is another.
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By Drama Torama 2015-08-17 12:49:11
If you are going to say someone is rude that may be their natural state of being
If someone's natural state of being is "***", that's fine, but why should anyone else have to put up with that?
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 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-08-17 13:02:07
Many people often take directness for rudeness, but it is perceived and not intended.
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By Valefor.Endoq 2015-08-17 13:07:39
Being rude is subjective though. Many people often take directness for rudeness, but it is perceived and not intended.
I run into this problem often in text convo where the reader is admittedly aggravated and I'm calm yet I get accused of being aggro when I felt nothing of the sort. Sometimes being straight forward and speaking the blunt truth is considered rude/offensive, and the opposite side to that scenario would be not speaking bluntly enough and leaving to much to interpretation, and that never ends well either.
I hope that we can all work toward peace and first check our own feelings to make sure we are not juxtaposing our own feelings with what we have read.
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-08-17 13:07:40
Many people often take directness for rudeness, but it is perceived and not intended.
And many people mistake freedom of speech as license to disparage or otherwise insult others under the guise of opinion.
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-08-17 13:11:08
Probably won't do you any good, moderation is too forgiving towards the liberal front here where they are willing to topicban one insult made by a conservative but a liberal can make all the insults they want....
This is more a function of who does the reporting. I get a lot more reports on the conservative posts.
My response to a lot of it has been "eh, walk it off", but the law of numbers says that when some get acted on, if there's a majority on one side of report type, it'll be the type that appears to be favored from a policy angle.
I don't moderate according to any political position, and I would be pretty surprised if any of you could actually guess my real politics at all.
So more reports on the conservative posts means what exactly, the standard liberal crew gets more easily offended?
I am shocked I tell you, shocked!
It's not possible that posters can break forum rules or offend people regardless of political slant, eh? Is it just coincidence that a select few rude and aggressive people might share the same ideology and also the same bad behavior?
That would not be my bet on the current situation. Is it against the rules to be rude? Who's call is it on what is rude? Yours?
I suppose ultimately the mods as far as this site goes, but saying people who think healthcare or food are a basic human right have a mental disorder or accusing trans of being perverse sexual predators is pretty rude in anyone's book.
I would point out I've never made those direct comparisons, only more broad generalizing ones but really it apparently doesn't matter. All that matters is that it is felt that I did.
So is calling someone who is skeptical of climate demagoguery a "science denier", so is calling someone who believes it an "alarmist". Like I said feeling offended is not a reason to go running to a mod.
You've said liberalism is a mental disorder at least a dozen times, but whatever. Climate denier isn't a derogatory term, neither is climate alarmist, calling 97% of scientists who've published papers and the people who agree/defer to their findings zealots or fascists is pushing the line. It's not even so much what people say as how they day it that factors into what is offensive, and you have an incredibly aggressive and rude way of saying things.
You are correct that I've said that. But not all "liberals" believe every tenant of liberalism and there a difference between criticizing the ideology and criticizing the people who subscribe to it. One does not need to hate Red Sox fans in order to hate the Red Sox.
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By Valefor.Endoq 2015-08-17 13:13:54
Many people often take directness for rudeness, but it is perceived and not intended.
And many people mistake freedom of speech as license to disparage or otherwise insult others under the guise of opinion. Freedom of speech is not here to protect feelings. Tolerance, is not silencing ones self. Tolerance is letting go of what offends and moving on. We could all use a healthy dose of tolerance.
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-08-17 13:14:48
Probably won't do you any good, moderation is too forgiving towards the liberal front here where they are willing to topicban one insult made by a conservative but a liberal can make all the insults they want....
This is more a function of who does the reporting. I get a lot more reports on the conservative posts.
My response to a lot of it has been "eh, walk it off", but the law of numbers says that when some get acted on, if there's a majority on one side of report type, it'll be the type that appears to be favored from a policy angle.
I don't moderate according to any political position, and I would be pretty surprised if any of you could actually guess my real politics at all.
So more reports on the conservative posts means what exactly, the standard liberal crew gets more easily offended?
I am shocked I tell you, shocked!
It's not possible that posters can break forum rules or offend people regardless of political slant, eh? Is it just coincidence that a select few rude and aggressive people might share the same ideology and also the same bad behavior?
That would not be my bet on the current situation. Is it against the rules to be rude? Who's call is it on what is rude? Yours?
I suppose ultimately the mods as far as this site goes, but saying people who think healthcare or food are a basic human right have a mental disorder or accusing trans of being perverse sexual predators is pretty rude in anyone's book.
I would point out I've never made those direct comparisons, only more broad generalizing ones but really it apparently doesn't matter. All that matters is that it is felt that I did.
So is calling someone who is skeptical of climate demagoguery a "science denier", so is calling someone who believes it an "alarmist". Like I said feeling offended is not a reason to go running to a mod.
You've said liberalism is a mental disorder at least a dozen times, but whatever. Climate denier isn't a derogatory term, neither is climate alarmist, calling 97% of scientists who've published papers and the people who agree/defer to their findings zealots or fascists is pushing the line. It's not even so much what people say as how they day it that factors into what is offensive, and you have an incredibly aggressive and rude way of saying things.
You are correct that I've said that. But not all "liberals" believe every tenant of liberalism and there a difference between criticizing the ideology and criticizing the people who subscribe to it. One does not need to hate Red Sox fans in order to hate the Red Sox.
And saying anyone who likes the Sox has a mental disorder would still be offensive.
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Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-08-17 13:34:00
Saying the Red Sox are x isn't the same as saying Red Sox fans are x.
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-08-17 13:48:08
Saying the Red Sox are x isn't the same as saying Red Sox fans are x.
That's not a good parallel. Sports teams aren't the same as social ideology. Calling an ideology a mental disorder is assigning that to anyone who subscribes to a part of that ideology. It would be less offensive if you didn't throw around labels as well. Simply disagreeing with the ideology is different than quantifying it as a disease then forceably assigning it to everyone who doesn't agree with you.
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Valefor.Endoq
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By Valefor.Endoq 2015-08-17 13:48:17
GTFO sports!
This is PnR!
\(D:)/
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-08-17 14:16:14
Saying the Red Sox are x isn't the same as saying Red Sox fans are x.
That's not a good parallel. Sports teams aren't the same as social ideology. Calling an ideology a mental disorder is assigning that to anyone who subscribes to a part of that ideology. It would be less offensive if you didn't throw around labels as well. Simply disagreeing with the ideology is different than quantifying it as a disease then forceably assigning it to everyone who doesn't agree with you.
The Red Sox are cheaters does not mean that red sox supporters are cheaters.
There are plenty of smart people that believe stupid things. It does not mean that you are stupid if you you hold a particularly stupid belief.
But again it's all about what you fell when I speak and not about what I say.
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-08-17 14:24:16
The Red Sox are cheaters does not mean that red sox supporters are cheaters.
There are plenty of smart people that believe stupid things. It does not mean that you are stupid if you you hold a particularly stupid belief.
But again it's all about what you fell when I speak and not about what I say.
Cheating is choice of action and sports fanship isn't the same relationship as ideology, you're trying to draw a distinction that doesn't apply.
People don't like being told their ideas are wrong, but people are offended by being told their ideas equate to a mental disability. If that's your bar for how people feel instead of what you say being the issue, I think it says more about your character than theirs.
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By Sylph.Jeanpaul 2015-08-17 15:09:01
The Red Sox are cheaters does not mean that red sox supporters are cheaters.
There are plenty of smart people that believe stupid things. It does not mean that you are stupid if you you hold a particularly stupid belief.
But again it's all about what you fell when I speak and not about what I say. Focus more on your reasoning, data, and ability to convey them and less on your analogies.
Random Politics & Religion is for topics that aren't thread worthy on their own and do not have their own existing thread.
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If your topic covers a story over 6 months old (Watergate, Benghazi, 2012 Election, etc.) post it here.
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With that out of the way, let the debates begin!
/bow
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