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Random Politics & Religion #00
 Bahamut.Kara
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3544
By Bahamut.Kara 2015-07-17 11:38:22
One of the things IS has been doing really well is public propaganda,
The problem with that I have is, what exactly is their propaganda saying that makes anything they're doing not seem like inhumane terrorism?
Or are they doing the thing that the Central/South American cartels/North Korea/etc. do where they supply food and medicine to the people they're terrorizing and blaming the violence on "the enemy"? Well.
Specifically for teenagers (who live in Western countries) they are basically using the same methods that gangs and cults use:
-lies about what "the west" are doing do your people (fake pictures and videos, although sometimes they don't need to lie....)
-offering you a "family" who understands you
-(this one not necessarily used by cults) the ability to take revenge against preceived transgressions.
For adults/teenagers who have had family members killed in these recent middle eastern conflicts they are offering the opportunity of revenge. Powerful motive for almost every human being.
Bahamut.Milamber
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3691
By Bahamut.Milamber 2015-07-17 11:50:12
Basically, followers of infowars and the men's rights movements are ripe pickings for IS; the same tactics are used.
 Bismarck.Leneth
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
By Bismarck.Leneth 2015-07-17 11:55:12
Addition to Kara's post answering Ramyrez question:
For your second part, yes. They build something like a welfare system for the locals there. Just for those who accept their reign though. And it is not shabby, they have quite some income to provide it.
A while ago (2-3 months?)I posted a link to their revealed structure which fell into the hands of US elite troops.
As for the first part, the inhuman terrorism is part of the success from their propaganda. It's basicly a do what you want fantasy. Attractive on screen but once they experience it live quite a few return to Europe disillusioned about the action of IS. In most of these cases they still stick to the religious ideology though.
As for the social manipulation, Kara described it well enough.
By Jetackuu 2015-07-17 11:56:33
 Valefor.Sehachan
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-07-17 11:56:57
Men going their own ISIS.
Bahamut.Milamber
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3691
By Bahamut.Milamber 2015-07-17 11:57:05
-(this one not necessarily used by cults) the ability to take revenge against perceived transgressions. And to be fair, a good number probably aren't just perceived transgressions, but actual transgressions as well.
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Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3686
By Phoenix.Amandarius 2015-07-17 11:58:08
The best way to curb their recruitment is an overwhelming and humiliating defeat militarily. For now though, they kick *** and no one can stop them. Lightly peppering them with drones is great for their recruitment because now they are fighting the United States and winning. Maybe if they promise to let Obama keep his Nobel Peace Prize he will finally get serious.
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Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20130
By Shiva.Nikolce 2015-07-17 11:58:54
quite a few return to Europe disillusioned about the action of IS.
I hear most of them quit when they can't get signals on their iPhones....
By Ramyrez 2015-07-17 12:04:16
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »The best way to curb their recruitment is an overwhelming and humiliating defeat militarily. For now though, they kick *** and no one can stop them. Lightly peppering them with drones is great for their recruitment because now they are fighting the United States and winning. Maybe if they promise to let Obama keep his Nobel Peace Prize he will finally get serious.
I despise the idea of sending US troops, but not one government in that *** region has a spine.
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Bismarck.Leneth
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
By Bismarck.Leneth 2015-07-17 12:04:24
quite a few return to Europe disillusioned about the action of IS.
I hear most of them quite when they can't get signals on their iPhones.... I'm quite certain there is a joke hidden there, but other than making it 'quit' I cannot see it.
On topic though: they are not allowed to have phones. They use Burqa wearing people to communicate.
VIP
Serveur: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9534
By Odin.Jassik 2015-07-17 12:04:25
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »The best way to curb their recruitment is an overwhelming and humiliating defeat militarily. For now though, they kick *** and no one can stop them. Lightly peppering them with drones is great for their recruitment because now they are fighting the United States and winning. Maybe if they promise to let Obama keep his Nobel Peace Prize he will finally get serious.
Yeah, that worked out great the last 2 times we invaded Iraq...
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2015-07-17 12:05:41
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »The best way to curb their recruitment is an overwhelming and humiliating defeat militarily. For now though, they kick *** and no one can stop them. Lightly peppering them with drones is great for their recruitment because now they are fighting the United States and winning. Maybe if they promise to let Obama keep his Nobel Peace Prize he will finally get serious.
Yeah, that worked out great the last 2 times we invaded Iraq...
Shock and Awe gives way to roadside bombs and CIA bags of cash.
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20130
By Shiva.Nikolce 2015-07-17 12:08:49
Unfortunately spellcheck does nothing to suppress my stupidity/poor word choice....
thanks obama.
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3686
By Phoenix.Amandarius 2015-07-17 12:08:54
This is a much different situation from Iraq. Who gives a crap about rebuilding.
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Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20130
By Shiva.Nikolce 2015-07-17 12:09:37
 Siren.Mosin
Serveur: Siren
Game: FFXI
By Siren.Mosin 2015-07-17 12:10:07
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »The best way to curb their recruitment is an overwhelming and humiliating defeat militarily.
NOPE!
the best way to curb recruitment is to improve the quality of life in some of these shitty counties. bombing them into rubble, probably, isn't the best way to go about that.
By Ramyrez 2015-07-17 12:12:02
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »The best way to curb their recruitment is an overwhelming and humiliating defeat militarily.
NOPE!
the best way to curb recruitment is to improve the quality of life in some of these shitty counties. bombing them into rubble, probably, isn't the best way to go about that.
Also a good point.
But seriously. Just once I'd like to see a country that claims it wants to be an upstanding member of the global community...act like it and see to their own dirty laundry.
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2015-07-17 12:13:33
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »This is a much different situation from Iraq. Who gives a crap about rebuilding. YouTube Video Placeholder
You know the logic behind nation building is to avoid leaving a power vacuum that feeds groups like ISIS?
Arming the Kurds is a viable strategy for fighting ISIS but I have no faith the people in the region would recognize a Kurdistan because religion and politics.
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2015-07-17 12:14:36
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »The best way to curb their recruitment is an overwhelming and humiliating defeat militarily.
NOPE!
the best way to curb recruitment is to improve the quality of life in some of these shitty counties. bombing them into rubble, probably, isn't the best way to go about that.
Also a good point.
But seriously. Just once I'd like to see a country that claims it wants to be an upstanding member of the global community...act like it and see to their own dirty laundry.
Not even the US did it's own dirty laundry. Or did we forget about the Spanish and French doing us a solid?
Then there was that Civil War about sla...STATES RIGHTS.
By Ramyrez 2015-07-17 12:16:08
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »Not even the US did it's own dirty laundry. Or did we forget about the Spanish and French doing us a solid?
Then there was that Civil War about sla...STATES RIGHTS.
I did not make my statement exclusive of any particular country, did I? ^^;
I am repeatedly -- and I know I've said this before -- amused by the mocking of the French, when we'd still be a colony without their aid.
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3686
By Phoenix.Amandarius 2015-07-17 12:16:44
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »The best way to curb their recruitment is an overwhelming and humiliating defeat militarily.
NOPE!
the best way to curb recruitment is to improve the quality of life in some of these shitty counties. bombing them into rubble, probably, isn't the best way to go about that.
Describe for me the shitty quality of life the shooter in Tennessee had? Poor guy only had an Electrical Engineering degree with his whole life ahead of him living in his little nice neighborhood without a care in the world.
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By Ramyrez 2015-07-17 12:18:49
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »Describe for me the shitty quality of life the shooter in Tennessee had? Poor guy only had an Electrical Engineering degree with his whole life ahead of him living in his little nice neighborhood without a care in the world.
These situations are not what most of us consider -- and I'm going to use a tricky term here -- "mutually exclusive".
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3686
By Phoenix.Amandarius 2015-07-17 12:26:55
Where ISIS reigns, no nations need to exist at all. Most of them do not want the imaginary borders that the West has on their maps anyway.
The region will always be poor. The World cannot dump enough money into regions of the world with horrible climates void of resources besides narcotics and oil.
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Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20130
By Shiva.Nikolce 2015-07-17 12:29:19
I think the romans had the right idea..you don't hear about Carthaginian terrorists
 Lakshmi.Flavin
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 18466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2015-07-17 12:31:16
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »Where ISIS reigns, no nations need to exist at all. Most of them do not want the imaginary borders that the West has on their maps anyway.
The region will always be poor. The World cannot dump enough money into regions of the world with horrible climates void of resources besides narcotics and oil. So the alternative is to just kill everyone? Dump billions or trillions into exterminating them only to have more pop up later like they seem to have done for some time now? All the while sacrificing more american troops to do so?
Bahamut.Milamber
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3691
By Bahamut.Milamber 2015-07-17 12:32:12
I think the romans had the right idea..you don't hear about Carthaginian terrorists But you do hear about:
Pheasant 'terrorist' tormenting a Cambridgeshire farm
Quote: A "terrorist" pheasant has been attacking vehicles and chasing cats and dogs at a Cambridgeshire farm.
Anne-Marie Hamilton said the male bird, which she described as "a complete lunatic", arrived at Wood Farm in Hail Weston three weeks ago.
...
Pheasant 'harem'
...
"He's trying to get everyone and everything off his territory so he can install his harem.
...
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Lakshmi.Flavin
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 18466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2015-07-17 12:33:07
Anyone else in favor of a war tax? Money levied across the entire population to fund our wars and strict rules set in place to only spend that money on said war.
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By Ramyrez 2015-07-17 12:34:06
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »Where ISIS reigns, no nations need to exist at all. Most of them do not want the imaginary borders that the West has on their maps anyway.
The region will always be poor. The World cannot dump enough money into regions of the world with horrible climates void of resources besides narcotics and oil.
I think the intrepid Frank Drebin said it best for these situations:
Quote: It's a topsy-turvy world, and maybe the problems of two people don't amount to a hill of beans. But this is our hill. And these are our beans!
Edit:
Also, to exam this closer:
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »void of resources besides narcotics and oil.
As the world is currently constituted, those are two massively profitable resources.
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 8022
By Shiva.Viciousss 2015-07-17 12:34:13
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »Where ISIS reigns, no nations need to exist at all. Most of them do not want the imaginary borders that the West has on their maps anyway.
The region will always be poor. The World cannot dump enough money into regions of the world with horrible climates void of resources besides narcotics and oil.
Wow lol. I like how you just dismiss resources like oil so casually. There is no reason for Iraq, Iran, or Saudi Arabia to be poor, oh wait, Saudi Arabia isn't poor! Iraq is a disaster because thats what it chose to be, should they ever choose to be wealthy, it could happen overnight. That region is far from poor, you are just not informed, as usual.
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