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Random Politics & Religion #00
By fonewear 2015-05-14 13:18:02
You can blame the culture of today's society for that, not businesses.
You could be right. Though I feel the bottom line, and advertising and marketing aggressively to instill desire and want in people didn't play zero influence on shaping our culture. Helped create the demand, but didn't cause the explosion of people's desire to own the latest/greatest thing and go into debt for their overspending habits.
It's definitely an aspect of human nature already, but it's one the system in place preys upon to function. I think that should be addressed is all I'm saying. If instead we were bombarded constantly about idk, not wanting and consuming stuff all the time I think things could be different. I don't see why for an economy to work or jobs to exist, we need a ton of people manufacturing worthless junk. So much consumption takes a toll on resources too. I understand mass production is more efficient. But I mean come on, planned obsolescence, so that your electronics are designed to only last a few years? Makes me a tad upset it does.
How else can they sell you a phone if they don't make new ones every year ? They have to make it "better" than last years model.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-05-14 13:18:57
But I mean come on, planned obsolescence, so that your electronics are designed to only last a few years? Makes me a tad upset it does. Um...that's neither a cultural or business issue. Technology evolves, and evolves quickly.
Hell, 5 years ago we didn't have the capability to watch anything in 3D without special glasses, and now we have 2 versions of 3DS, both of which has the capability to watch something in 3D without glasses.
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By fonewear 2015-05-14 13:20:19
Just look at your beloved FFXI you can tell the game is over 10 years old...then take a look a new MMO.
By fonewear 2015-05-14 13:21:09
How else can they sell you a phone if they don't make new ones every year ? They have to make it "better" than last years model.
A better example is tv sets for example. Now there is smart ones so you could make such an argument, but it used to be a TV was a TV as long as it was color it was as good as any other TV. They started making them unreliable intentionally, A tv used to last 20 years then they only last 2 before you have to buy a new one. They do this with other things too and it's still a relevant thing imo.
That is the business plan though. If they don't make it obsolete in two years they wouldn't make much money...
I waited 4 years to upgrade my smart phone. It's a new concept but it works !
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-05-14 13:22:13
How else can they sell you a phone if they don't make new ones every year ? They have to make it "better" than last years model.
A better example is tv sets for example. Now there is smart ones so you could make such an argument, but it used to be a TV was a TV as long as it was color it was as good as any other TV. They started making them unreliable intentionally, A tv used to last 20 years then they only last 2 before you have to buy a new one. They do this with other things too and it's still a relevant thing imo. So, don't buy shitty TVs then.
There is a difference between a $50 TV and a $500 TV. Quality does enhance the life of the product....
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By fonewear 2015-05-14 13:23:08
Apple will release an I phone 6s this fall that is only slightly better than the 6 and people will buy it like crazy. It's what they do.
By Ramyrez 2015-05-14 13:31:15
How else can they sell you a phone if they don't make new ones every year ? They have to make it "better" than last years model.
A better example is tv sets for example. Now there is smart ones so you could make such an argument, but it used to be a TV was a TV as long as it was color it was as good as any other TV. They started making them unreliable intentionally, A tv used to last 20 years then they only last 2 before you have to buy a new one. They do this with other things too and it's still a relevant thing imo. So, don't buy shitty TVs then.
There is a difference between a $50 TV and a $500 TV. Quality does enhance the life of the product....
Going to go w/ KN here. A quality television may not last you twenty years, but it will give you more quality in 6-7 years than those ones ever could.
For a device that gets such frequent use, you have to realize its an investment as much as anything. It's why I don't mind paying what I pay for good electronics. When I use them every day for a significant portion of time, it's really a better investment than buying sub-par crap and having problems with it or having to replace it frequently.
While we're specifically talking televisions, I'll just throw it out there, I have two top-of-the-line at time of purchase Samsungs, a 32" and a 55", seven and four years old, respectively. Both are still providing superb quality.
Edit: There are some things that aren't built to last as much, but they also provide superior service for that shorter time. I get tired of older people complaining about "we re-used; we didn't thrown things away when they broke!"
You didn't have an option but to fix what you had. You also polluted the *** out of the environment and didn't think twice about it because you didn't know any better. Now we do. That's what progress is. Also, maybe look at some of the landfills in this country and tell me you never threw anything away.
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By Ramyrez 2015-05-14 13:36:59
For instance:
Pittsburgh before environment controls:
And after:
Tell me again how you respected things and treated them well and made them last.
Please realize I'm not trying to be insulting to older generations here, just honest. We're no different today. We do the best we can at a crossroads of affordibility, quality, and care for things around us. We don't always get it right. But we all keep trying.
By fonewear 2015-05-14 13:39:22
So if you don't like your Sony TV build your own TV !
By fonewear 2015-05-14 13:40:55
No one is forcing you to buy shitty electronics though so I'm not sure what your point is. Do some companies make shitty TVs yes. Avoid said companies !
The electronics business doesn't care if you buy their stuff maybe you are better suited for some other hobby.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-05-14 13:42:55
So you see my point, instead of making products for longevity and future compatibility which is something that can be done, especially since most things aren't just hardware but software now, they go the other way and intentionally do the opposite for the purpose of the bottom line. Bottom line is happiest when people are buying tons of things all the time. Business drives this to happen, and it wants a culture that is consumer happy. Your great great uncle Jed who made stuff last and the stuff he got is generations old, etc, yah. That's frowned upon. Ads assault us every day telling us this or that could make our life better, and so on. We're taught to consume, not the opposite. I believe that is because our system relies on this consumption to work, to create jobs, to make businesses wheels turn. A lot of jobs are service related though, for example. Why not have more services, and less stuff? Why not get people to work on things that actually make our culture and planet better like lots more R&D? Why does all of it have to be funded by truckloads of junk that gets thrown away? It's not a rational event. It's the result of a system that works, so we use it. But it's not ideal. I don't think you understand. Some business models are there to provide a cheaper alternative and product than the competition. What that means is, you are not going to get a better quality or longevity product, and that is what they do. They aren't there to sell products with the top-of-the-line ***, they are there to sell to those who cannot afford the top-of-the-line ***.
Look at vehicles too. I have a 2007 Dodge Nitro I use for everyday things and to travel, and I have a 2013 Mercedes Benz S-Class I use for special events like business meetings or business dinners. The Nitro is there to get me from point A to point B, also for fun, while the S-Class is there to impress and for posturing. The S-Class can last me for years to come while the Nitro is starting to show some age (almost time for me to update). I didn't buy the Nitro for longevity, I bought it for practicability. I didn't buy the S-Class for practicability, I bought it for the quality and longevity.
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By fonewear 2015-05-14 13:43:13
To move the topic to it's logical conclusion:
YouTube Video Placeholder
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-05-14 13:44:38
Please realize I'm not trying to be insulting to older generations here, just honest. We're no different today. We do the best we can at a crossroads of affordibility, quality, and care for things around us. We don't always get it right. But we all keep trying. We also have better technology that doesn't pollute the environment as much as it did at the time either. Technology created by businesses to help the environment too....
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Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-05-14 13:46:43
Also, it's not about me buying shitty electronics, it's about a bottom line driven to make the wheels of the economy turn faster to make the economy stronger at the expense of resources, and general wastefulness Actually, it's consumer demand that drives the bottom line, not quality of products or "misappropriation" of resources.
I'm still thinking you are wanting people to buy stuff they don't want...
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By fonewear 2015-05-14 13:47:00
Honestly I'm lost I feel like this discussion is going in circles.
By Ramyrez 2015-05-14 13:47:01
It's that the values of waste not want not are good values and should not have been lost.
I don't think they necessarily have been in many ways. It's just like a lot of things, the media and television in general say they have and we all believe it.
Much like a lot of the crap that gets said about millenials. Yeah, they've got their own set of problems, but people who act like prior generations wouldn't have acted the same way in the same circumstances are full of ***. :p
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-05-14 13:48:21
Actually, I'm curious about this whole "misappropriation" of resources Verda is thinking about.
Can you give some examples so we know what you are talking about?
By Ramyrez 2015-05-14 13:49:22
just look at how much someone will pay for 1% more double attack in ffxi since we're on this site
That *** grip, man.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-05-14 13:49:27
I don't think you understand. Some business models are there to provide a cheaper alternative and product than the competition. What that means is, you are not going to get a better quality or longevity product, and that is what they do
Sometimes you are right. But longevity isn't easy to test. And it's easy to charge a premium for something even slightly better well made (just look at how much someone will pay for 1% more double attack in ffxi since we're on this site). It doesn't mean it's more longevity just that it has some feature or looks nicer. Don't confuse this MMO with real life.
And how are you quantifying quality anyway? Quality is an intangible that is perceived by the consumer....
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By fonewear 2015-05-14 13:51:28
I don't think you understand. Some business models are there to provide a cheaper alternative and product than the competition. What that means is, you are not going to get a better quality or longevity product, and that is what they do
Sometimes you are right. But longevity isn't easy to test. And it's easy to charge a premium for something even slightly better well made (just look at how much someone will pay for 1% more double attack in ffxi since we're on this site). It doesn't mean it's more longevity just that it has some feature or looks nicer. Don't confuse this MMO with real life.
And how are you quantifying quality anyway? Quality is an intangible that is perceived by the consumer....
Now I'm scared for the longest time I thought FFXI was my life !
 Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2015-05-14 13:54:11
Yes, if correspondence is available. It can also be conjecture, but sustainable conjecture if inappropriate time period elapses between discovery/confirmation/reporting/recall.
Manufacturers are required to disclose safety-related faults or failures to the NHTSA when the information is available. Which is the rub. If the ignition issues were caused by consumer inattentiveness, should there be a recall issued because of stupid people? That's a bit of a stretch for this particular instance; the device used did not meet the required performance.
In general, recalls are not issued due to the stupidity of users, but due to the product not meeting the required behavior.
Mistakes are made. ***happens. The absolute wrong thing to do is attempt to hide the issue and hope it goes away/doesn't have much impact.
Bahamut.Milamber
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Posts: 3691
By Bahamut.Milamber 2015-05-14 13:55:27
I don't think you understand. Some business models are there to provide a cheaper alternative and product than the competition. What that means is, you are not going to get a better quality or longevity product, and that is what they do
Sometimes you are right. But longevity isn't easy to test. And it's easy to charge a premium for something even slightly better well made (just look at how much someone will pay for 1% more double attack in ffxi since we're on this site). It doesn't mean it's more longevity just that it has some feature or looks nicer. Don't confuse this MMO with real life.
And how are you quantifying quality anyway? Quality is an intangible that is perceived by the consumer.... Oh, there are certainly tangible metrics for quality of products.
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