Random Politics & Religion #00

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Random Politics & Religion #00
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-03-31 12:21:49
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Seraph.Ramyrez said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
When the police start rounding up gays and forcing them to live away from everyone else in make shift ghettos and have separate water fountains or forcing them all to live in camps away from everyone else surrounded by barbed wire, all while making a few cents a day doing slave labor then I'll say the LGB community is being persecuted and/or discriminated against.

As for the T, I'm not going on that topic again.

Okay, so, as long as blatant public discrimination doesn't exist, it's simply not an issue.
Nope. Economically, they're statistically doing better than most of the country.

So a certain Christian bakery won't bake them a cake. Boohoo!

Go somewhere will they will. Flash enough cash and I'm certain someone will do it.
 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-03-31 12:23:45
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Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
"Hey, at least we don't kill 'em!" - American conservatives

Pleebo comes unhinged, produces the ultimate strawman and gets {+}s. Just another day in P&R.
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By fonewear 2015-03-31 12:23:54
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Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Seraph.Ramyrez said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
When the police start rounding up gays and forcing them to live away from everyone else in make shift ghettos and have separate water fountains or forcing them all to live in camps away from everyone else surrounded by barbed wire, all while making a few cents a day doing slave labor then I'll say the LGB community is being persecuted and/or discriminated against.

As for the T, I'm not going on that topic again.

Okay, so, as long as blatant public discrimination doesn't exist, it's simply not an issue.
Nope. Economically, they're statistically doing better than most of the country.

So a certain Christian bakery won't bake them a cake. Boohoo!

Go somewhere will they will. Flash enough cash and I'm certain someone will do it.

Sir you need feels therapy ! With time you can learn to feel again.
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-03-31 12:25:13
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fonewear said: »
Sir you need feels therapy ! With time you can learn to feel again.
Good thing McFeely is here :P
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By fonewear 2015-03-31 12:26:30
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I asked my female therapist for feels therapy now I'm on a sex offender list...clearly her definition of feels is different than mine !
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 Lye
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By Lye 2015-03-31 12:28:03
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
"Hey, at least we don't kill 'em!" - American conservatives

Pleebo comes unhinged, produces the ultimate strawman and gets {+}s. Just another day in P&R.


Nausi falls on his sword despite his righteous cause!

Just another day .... OH WAIT!
 
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-03-31 12:29:33
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fonewear said: »
I asked my female therapist for feels therapy now I'm on a sex offender list...clearly her definition of feels is different than mine !
Discrimination!

Sue so you never have to work a day in your life again.
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 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-03-31 12:30:05
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Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
"Hey, at least we don't kill 'em!" - American conservatives

What happens to gay people in America Pleebo that I don't know about? For you to say "at least we don't kill them" implies other horrible things are being done and that I am somehow cool with it.
He's just clinging to his "murica (conservative) is against the gayz" narrative. Resorting to hyperbole and straw men to do so.
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By fonewear 2015-03-31 12:31:04
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Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
fonewear said: »
I asked my female therapist for feels therapy now I'm on a sex offender list...clearly her definition of feels is different than mine !
Discrimination!

Sue so you never have to work a day in your life again.

I got it ! I'll sue her pants off...that will do it !
 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2015-03-31 12:31:10
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
"Hey, at least we don't kill 'em!" - American conservatives

Pleebo comes unhinged, produces the ultimate strawman and gets {+}s. Just another day in P&R.
That was the argument being presented. That gays are being killed in the middle east therefore and like such as hurr durr.
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 Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2015-03-31 12:31:51
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Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Seraph.Ramyrez said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
When the police start rounding up gays and forcing them to live away from everyone else in make shift ghettos and have separate water fountains or forcing them all to live in camps away from everyone else surrounded by barbed wire, all while making a few cents a day doing slave labor then I'll say the LGB community is being persecuted and/or discriminated against.

As for the T, I'm not going on that topic again.

Okay, so, as long as blatant public discrimination doesn't exist, it's simply not an issue.
Nope. Economically, they're statistically doing better than most of the country.

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By fonewear 2015-03-31 12:31:58
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Late breaking news from the Daily Beast:

Indiana needs a gay church ! TLDR: We'll preach those *** a lesson !

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/03/31/why-indiana-needs-a-church-of-gay.html

Maybe it’s time to start the Church of Gay. Or actually pass state and federal laws specifying that gay businesses have the legal right to discriminate against religious fundamentalists. Time to fight special rights with special rights.

After all, Indiana’s new “Religious Freedom Restoration Act” does just that—it confers special rights on a small minority of citizens and, importantly, their private businesses, to disregard other laws and the constitution and discriminate against other citizens. The law isn’t about protecting religious freedom; it’s about hiding the impulse toward ugly and un-American discrimination beneath the distraction of more palatable rationalizations.

In response, yes, there should be court challenges and tourism boycotts and more. But I would also like to propose the “Gay Freedom Restoration Act.” And should such a law fail to pass in Indiana or other states, then I will be starting the Church of Gay. Allow me to explain.

First, you need to understand that, despite what some have insisted, the Indiana law differs from the federal “Religious Freedom Restoration Act” and similar state laws in two important ways. For one thing, the Indiana law explicitly allows private, for-profit businesses to use “the free exercise of religion” to justify discriminatory policies. And while under other statutes “free exercise” is a right of defense against government lawsuits, Indiana expands that to include private lawsuits as well. What that means is that a private for-profit business can claim religion as an excuse to discriminate and then use that claim as a defense against any lawsuit.

Plus the Indiana law’s intent is radically different and more nefarious than its predecessors. In fact, in Indiana’s legislative debates, Democrats “offered the Republican legislative majority a chance to amend the new act to say that it did not permit businesses to discriminate.” Republicans rejected the amendment.

Meanwhile, according to a poll from last year, 62 percent of mainline white Protestants, 58 percent of white Catholics and 56 percent of Hispanic Catholics support marriage equality. Apparently, 83 percent of Jews in America also support marriage equality. But if a Jewish private business owner wanted to discriminate against a gay couple, we should allow him to because of a very marginal interpretation of his religion?

Yes, that’s basically how it works. “As long as it’s a sincere belief that can be plausibly organized as a religion,” explains Professor Katherine Franke, director of Columbia Law School’s Center for Gender and Sexuality Law. “In fact it’s regardless of whether that religion’s official doctrine adheres to your beliefs. We don’t ask the courts to interpret the reasonableness. You don’t even have to belong to a congregation or attend services. It just has to be plausible.”

That’s a pretty damn low bar. And us gay people love bars. So…

Heck, if Scientology can be a religion, why can’t we start one?

Why not introduce that “Gay Freedom Restoration Act” to protect sexual freedom and liberty and support the “free exercise” thereof by privately owned businesses? Would that mean a gay-owned restaurant could refuse to serve food to a right-wing religious homophobe? Or maybe Apple Computers, run by openly-gay CEO Tim Cook, could refuse to sell iPhones and iPads to fundamentalists?

Wait a second, you say, that’s discrimination! That kind of law would be morally wrong and possibly illegal! Yes, but the 14th Amendment of the United States Constitution guarantees “equal protection under the law” including, in this brave new world, the right to discriminate.

Even better would be a national “Church of Gay” to which gay and straight folks could belong. Heck, if Scientology can be a religion, why can’t we start one? A central tenet of the “Church of Gay” would be equality and acceptance of everyone, and therefore violations of those principles would undermine the “sincerely held belief” of the Gayists.

Then again, Professor Franke points out, we don’t need to start a new church. There are plenty of organized, mainstream religions that already commit themselves to equality. Last year a group of ministers sued the state of North Carolina for not allowing ministers in the state to perform same-sex marriages. The ministers, plus one rabbi, filed a lawsuit challenging the state’s anti-gay marriage laws for restricting their free exercise of religion.

Professor Franke says, “Now is the time to ask whether progressives can use these religious freedom laws, too.” For instance, she could imagine a private business owner in Indiana using the new “Religious Freedom Restoration Act” to challenge the state’s open carry permit law: A private business owner whose sincerely held religious beliefs include peace and non-violence could object to an individual being allowed to enter her store or restaurant with a weapon. Indiana also has proposed legislation to require public school teachers to carry weapons; but were such a mandate to pass, a teacher could file suit because such a requirement violated his religious freedom.

Under Indiana law, medical professionals must counsel women against terminating their pregnancies. But doctors and nurses could file suit arguing that these and other restrictions on abortion in the state not only violate their free speech but their freedom of religion, including their sincerely held beliefs about the sanctity of women and their freedom.

The simple fact is that gay rights and marriage equality are becoming the norm. It’s increasingly the law of the land, and it’s by a growing majority of Americans. But instead of continuing to fight it out in our democracy or courts, a slim minority of fringe fundamentalists have rebranded their bigotry as “religious freedom.”

This is a manipulation of both religion and our nation’s principles and values. While America has never been perfect, a consistent fact of our history has been that those who want to discriminate have always, eventually, lost in the face of those who want to expand justice and liberty.

Those who want to discriminate are now, again, losing. So might I suggest giving up, going home and getting used to the new world around you? Try putting the “grace” in losing gracefully.
 Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2015-03-31 12:32:14
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
"Hey, at least we don't kill 'em!" - American conservatives

What happens to gay people in America Pleebo that I don't know about? For you to say "at least we don't kill them" implies other horrible things are being done and that I am somehow cool with it.
He's just clinging to his "murica (conservative) is against the gayz" narrative. Resorting to hyperbole and straw men to do so.
I don;t know how you can say this and quite literally be supporting the discrimination this new law allows for at the same time lol. How you decry others for hypocrisy is beyond me.

Edit: That being said the argument made previously was that the gays should just accept whatever they're given because hey, they could be somewhere else where gays have it a lot worse.

You could say that about a lot of things. Any religious individuals should just accept that they have to provide service to gay people because you know that religious person could have it much worse off somewhere else!
 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-03-31 12:33:58
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In real news today:

Quote:
A far-left Turkish group took an Istanbul prosecutor hostage on Tuesday and threatened to kill him, prompting special forces to enter the courthouse and police to evacuate the building.

The Revolutionary People's Liberation Party-Front (DHKP-C) published a picture of the prosecutor with a gun to his head and said it would kill him at 1236 GMT, three hours after gunmen stormed his office, unless its demands were met.

Istanbul police chief Selami Altinok said negotiators were talking to the two hostage-takers after the deadline passed. Turkish television stations meanwhile cut their live broadcasts, some citing a reporting ban.

"We are trying to bring the incident to an end without anyone getting hurt. Negotiators are talking to the assailants," Altinok told reporters.

The prosecutor, Mehmet Selim Kiraz, is leading an investigation into the death last March of 15-year-old Berkin Elvan, who died after nine months in a coma from a head wound sustained in anti-government protests.

The DHKP-C said on its website it wanted the police officer it blames for Elvan's death to confess on television, the officers involved to be tried in "people's courts", and charges against those who attended protests for Elvan to be dropped.

Witnesses said they heard gunshots as the hostage-takers entered the building.

"We were on the sixth floor. A black-haired man wearing a suit entered the prosecutor’s room and fired a gun three times," Mehmet Hasan Kaplan, who works in the building, told Reuters, adding that the attackers also claimed to have explosives.

In a brief video message on a widely-followed Twitter account describing itself as that of Elvan's family, the boy's father appeared to call on the group not to harm the prosecutor.

"We want justice. We don't want anyone to shed even a drop of blood. We don't want other mothers to cry," Sami Elvan said.

Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu met with current and former interior and justice ministers at the ruling AK Party headquarters in Ankara to discuss the hostage crisis, officials in his office said.

Television footage showed special forces officers entering the courthouse and officials being escorted out. Armed police officers, many wearing flak jackets, surrounded the building and fire engines were positioned outside.

The United States, European Union and Turkey list the DHKP-C as a terrorist organization. It was behind a suicide bombing at the U.S. Embassy in 2013. In 2001, two policemen and an Australian tourist died in a DHKP-C attack in central Istanbul.
Turkish special forces enter courthouse as prosecutor held at gunpoint
 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-03-31 12:35:28
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Bahamut.Milamber said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Seraph.Ramyrez said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
When the police start rounding up gays and forcing them to live away from everyone else in make shift ghettos and have separate water fountains or forcing them all to live in camps away from everyone else surrounded by barbed wire, all while making a few cents a day doing slave labor then I'll say the LGB community is being persecuted and/or discriminated against.

As for the T, I'm not going on that topic again.

Okay, so, as long as blatant public discrimination doesn't exist, it's simply not an issue.
Nope. Economically, they're statistically doing better than most of the country.

ftfy.
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 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2015-03-31 12:35:44
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Replace gays with blacks and we've got the same line of argumentation that led to 'no colored folk allowed!' places of business.

Why should I have to serve darkies? They offend my sensibilities.
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By fonewear 2015-03-31 12:35:50
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Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
In real news today:

Quote:
A far-left Turkish group took an Istanbul prosecutor hostage on Tuesday and threatened to kill him, prompting special forces to enter the courthouse and police to evacuate the building.

The Revolutionary People's Liberation Party-Front (DHKP-C) published a picture of the prosecutor with a gun to his head and said it would kill him at 1236 GMT, three hours after gunmen stormed his office, unless its demands were met.

Istanbul police chief Selami Altinok said negotiators were talking to the two hostage-takers after the deadline passed. Turkish television stations meanwhile cut their live broadcasts, some citing a reporting ban.

"We are trying to bring the incident to an end without anyone getting hurt. Negotiators are talking to the assailants," Altinok told reporters.

The prosecutor, Mehmet Selim Kiraz, is leading an investigation into the death last March of 15-year-old Berkin Elvan, who died after nine months in a coma from a head wound sustained in anti-government protests.

The DHKP-C said on its website it wanted the police officer it blames for Elvan's death to confess on television, the officers involved to be tried in "people's courts", and charges against those who attended protests for Elvan to be dropped.

Witnesses said they heard gunshots as the hostage-takers entered the building.

"We were on the sixth floor. A black-haired man wearing a suit entered the prosecutor’s room and fired a gun three times," Mehmet Hasan Kaplan, who works in the building, told Reuters, adding that the attackers also claimed to have explosives.

In a brief video message on a widely-followed Twitter account describing itself as that of Elvan's family, the boy's father appeared to call on the group not to harm the prosecutor.

"We want justice. We don't want anyone to shed even a drop of blood. We don't want other mothers to cry," Sami Elvan said.

Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu met with current and former interior and justice ministers at the ruling AK Party headquarters in Ankara to discuss the hostage crisis, officials in his office said.

Television footage showed special forces officers entering the courthouse and officials being escorted out. Armed police officers, many wearing flak jackets, surrounded the building and fire engines were positioned outside.

The United States, European Union and Turkey list the DHKP-C as a terrorist organization. It was behind a suicide bombing at the U.S. Embassy in 2013. In 2001, two policemen and an Australian tourist died in a DHKP-C attack in central Istanbul.
Turkish special forces enter courthouse as prosecutor held at gunpoint

Real news...then what the *** have I been reading Huff Post ! I knew it !
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 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-03-31 12:36:12
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Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
"Hey, at least we don't kill 'em!" - American conservatives

Pleebo comes unhinged, produces the ultimate strawman and gets {+}s. Just another day in P&R.
That was the argument being presented. That gays are being killed in the middle east therefore and like such as hurr durr.
Where did anyone say "at least we don't kill em?" or anything even remotely close to that?

Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Freedom of speech doesn't really work like that lol. It's not really your right to call someone eles a ***

You're 100% wrong here, but thanks for validating the idea you don't believe in freedom of speech.
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By fonewear 2015-03-31 12:37:07
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Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
Replace gays with blacks and we've got the same line of argumentation that led to 'no colored folk allowed!' places of business.

Why should I have to serve darkies? They offend my sensibilities.

Darkies I'm Indian and I find this offensive !
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-03-31 12:37:30
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Freedom of speech doesn't really work like that lol. It's not really your right to call someone eles a ***

You're 100% wrong here, but thanks for validating the idea you don't believe in freedom of speech.

Hate speech is not protected under the first amendment, so he's about 100% right, actually.
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-03-31 12:37:53
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Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
Replace gays with blacks and we've got the same line of argumentation that led to 'no colored folk allowed!' places of business.

Why should I have to serve darkies? They offend my sensibilities.
In order to do that we have to move all the gays into ghettos and take away all their money and give them very low paying jobs.
 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2015-03-31 12:38:44
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Where did anyone say "at least we don't kill em?" or anything even remotely close to that?
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
I remember those sweet videos of Saddam Hussein throwing men with their hands cuffed behind their backs off of the top of buildings to their death because they were gay. Now in retrospect, the left thinks Saddam was a pretty cool guy that stabilized the entire Middle East. Where do you see anywhere in the World let alone America, Christians doing anything horrible to gay people? Oh wait there was this one guy that didn't want to make a gay wedding cake. Horrible.
sup
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 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2015-03-31 12:38:52
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fonewear said: »
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
Replace gays with blacks and we've got the same line of argumentation that led to 'no colored folk allowed!' places of business.

Why should I have to serve darkies? They offend my sensibilities.

Darkies I'm Mediterranean and I find this offensive !

No Colored includes Eastern Europeans, Hispanics and Asians! Better be able to pass the 'probably white' test or it's the back of the bus for you!
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 Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2015-03-31 12:39:26
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
"Hey, at least we don't kill 'em!" - American conservatives

Pleebo comes unhinged, produces the ultimate strawman and gets {+}s. Just another day in P&R.
That was the argument being presented. That gays are being killed in the middle east therefore and like such as hurr durr.
Where did anyone say "at least we don't kill em?" or anything even remotely close to that?

Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Freedom of speech doesn't really work like that lol. It's not really your right to call someone eles a ***

You're 100% wrong here, but thanks for validating the idea you don't believe in freedom of speech.
Http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_words#United_States
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By fonewear 2015-03-31 12:40:08
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I'll gladly ride in the back of the bus more leg room !
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 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-03-31 12:40:34
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Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
"Hey, at least we don't kill 'em!" - American conservatives

What happens to gay people in America Pleebo that I don't know about? For you to say "at least we don't kill them" implies other horrible things are being done and that I am somehow cool with it.
He's just clinging to his "murica (conservative) is against the gayz" narrative. Resorting to hyperbole and straw men to do so.
I don;t know how you can say this and quite literally be supporting the discrimination this new law allows for at the same time lol. How you decry others for hypocrisy is beyond me.

Edit: That being said the argument made previously was that the gays should just accept whatever they're given because hey, they could be somewhere else where gays have it a lot worse.

You could say that about a lot of things. Any religious individuals should just accept that they have to provide service to gay people because you know that religious person could have it much worse off somewhere else!

"Give me a cake you "fundie", and be thankful we're not decapitating your head like they do in the middle east?"
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2015-03-31 12:40:58
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
"Hey, at least we don't kill 'em!" - American conservatives

Pleebo comes unhinged, produces the ultimate strawman and gets {+}s. Just another day in P&R.
That was the argument being presented. That gays are being killed in the middle east therefore and like such as hurr durr.
Where did anyone say "at least we don't kill em?" or anything even remotely close to that?

Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Freedom of speech doesn't really work like that lol. It's not really your right to call someone eles a ***

You're 100% wrong here, but thanks for validating the idea you don't believe in freedom of speech.
Thanks for showing all of us that you don't understand what your rights actually are or how they are protected and in what ways under the constitution.
 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2015-03-31 12:41:25
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Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
Replace gays with blacks and we've got the same line of argumentation that led to 'no colored folk allowed!' places of business.

Why should I have to serve darkies? They offend my sensibilities.
In order to do that we have to move all the gays into ghettos and take away all their money and give them very low paying jobs.

No we don't. Discrimination is discrimination. Because we haven't crowded people together and herded them into ghettoes doesn't mean discrimination don't exist. The line of reasoning for these types of 'refusals' is EXACTLY the same as when whites across America refused to serve 'colored' folk.

It was *** HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE then, it's *** HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE now.

By nipping things in the bud now, we prevent that type of gross inhumanity from happening again.
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