Random Politics & Religion #00

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Random Politics & Religion #00
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 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2015-02-21 11:03:44
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
The know nothing party? You mean Liberalism?....
Quote:
The Know-Nothing Party, also known as the American Party, was a prominent United States political party during the late 1840s and the early 1850s. The American Party originated in 1849. Its members strongly opposed immigrants and followers of the Catholic Church

Know Nothing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-02-21 11:04:56
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Garuda.Chanti said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
The know nothing party? You mean Liberalism?....
Quote:
The Know-Nothing Party, also known as the American Party, was a prominent United States political party during the late 1840s and the early 1850s. The American Party originated in 1849. Its members strongly opposed immigrants and followers of the Catholic Church

Know Nothing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Well ***, I never knew there was a party named that.
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 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2015-02-21 11:08:33
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Here at FFXIAH somewhere between the ***, piss and smell of hobo we are dedicated to learning.
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 Shiva.Onorgul
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2015-02-21 11:09:22
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American politics in the 1800s was really interesting. Politicians in that era had used up all the *** they had to give and basically just said what they really thought.

I kind of wish we'd go back to that. I don't necessarily want our Congressmen brawling in the aisles as some members of parliaments around the world have been known to do, but I wouldn't exactly be bothered by it, either. It beats the alternative of them all glad-handing one another while pretending to disagree.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-02-21 11:11:15
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Shiva.Onorgul said: »
American politics in the 1800s was really interesting. Politicians in that era had used up all the *** they had to give and basically just said what they really thought.

I kind of wish we'd go back to that. I don't necessarily want our Congressmen brawling in the aisles as some members of parliaments around the world have been known to do, but I wouldn't exactly be bothered by it, either. It beats the alternative of them all glad-handing one another while pretending to disagree.
I prefer our current system of publicly disagreeing and demeaning each other, but when faced with your opponent, you actually try to show a little respect to them.
 Shiva.Onorgul
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2015-02-21 11:12:30
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Shiva.Onorgul said: »
American politics in the 1800s was really interesting. Politicians in that era had used up all the *** they had to give and basically just said what they really thought.

I kind of wish we'd go back to that. I don't necessarily want our Congressmen brawling in the aisles as some members of parliaments around the world have been known to do, but I wouldn't exactly be bothered by it, either. It beats the alternative of them all glad-handing one another while pretending to disagree.
I prefer our current system of publicly disagreeing and demeaning each other, but when faced with your opponent, you actually try to show a little respect to them.
What, seriously? Where Boehner can basically call the President the Anti-Christ when in front of cable news cameras but then spends his Sunday afternoon pleasantly golfing with this fine gentleman named Barack Obama?

Why on earth do you think that's laudable?
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-02-21 11:14:47
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Shiva.Onorgul said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Shiva.Onorgul said: »
American politics in the 1800s was really interesting. Politicians in that era had used up all the *** they had to give and basically just said what they really thought.

I kind of wish we'd go back to that. I don't necessarily want our Congressmen brawling in the aisles as some members of parliaments around the world have been known to do, but I wouldn't exactly be bothered by it, either. It beats the alternative of them all glad-handing one another while pretending to disagree.
I prefer our current system of publicly disagreeing and demeaning each other, but when faced with your opponent, you actually try to show a little respect to them.
What, seriously? Where Boehner can basically call the President the Anti-Christ when in front of cable news cameras but then spends his Sunday afternoon pleasantly golfing with this fine gentleman named Barack Obama?

Why on earth do you think that's laudable?
Actually, it's the media who's calling Obama the "Anti-Christ" while using Boehner's words.

If you actually read the articles instead of skimming the headlines, you would see the fluff from the stated words.

To put it another way:
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 Shiva.Onorgul
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2015-02-21 11:17:31
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Yes, thank you, I really needed a deflection.

I repeat my question: why do you think it's a good thing that they shout imprecations for the gullible public when they get along privately? Do you actually enjoy the covert knowledge that you're being screwed by both sides?
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 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2015-02-21 11:18:43
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Honestly as representatives of an ideal, politicians should be held to a standard of respecting their opponents and engaging in civil discourse. The trend towards insulting opponents in a crass, open handed manner and generally disrespecting the office is not becoming of good governance. This doesn't mean back down from the needling wit or prose but seriously, respect the office if nothing else.

We're a few steps from calling eachother doo-doo heads at this rate. Inviting foreign leaders to speak and bash the government? Seriously?
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-02-21 11:24:01
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Shiva.Onorgul said: »
why do you think it's a good thing that they shout imprecations for the gullible public when they get along privately?
I highly doubt that Bohener gets along with Obama. I said "try to show a little respect," but I never stated that they are best pals. You are the one making that connection, not me.

Shiva.Onorgul said: »
Do you actually enjoy the covert knowledge that you're being screwed by both sides?
Confirmation bias. Didn't you just said you are trying to not fall for that?
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2015-02-21 11:29:03
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Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
The trend towards insulting opponents in a crass, open handed manner and generally disrespecting the office is not becoming of good governance.
This "trend" you're referring to goes back centuries. I can dig up quotations from 1800s American politicians who said what they thought. Indeed, remember, the majority of what a politician said or thought was normally kept to the halls of government because even when we had newspapers, it was a long way from the immediate mass-media circus we have today.

If two people vehemently disagree and one suspects the other of having a personal stake instead of a political one, why should they not be called out on it? I'm not suggesting that we have a comedically-bleeped interminable string of the several dozen words you can't say on television, but if one has good reason to imagine that Mr Smith is saying something less because he believes it to be true and more because he's being paid off, why shouldn't someone call him a hustler and a prostitute? We can use fancy words if you prefer.

The way corridors of power work now, at least in the federal government, is everyone is basically friendly with each other except when the cameras are rolling. Think about that. In the past, politicians could be mortal enemies, for both good and bad reasons, and if they said something nasty where the public could get wind of it, they meant it. Now we have these duplicitous confidence tricksters getting up in front of CNN, MSNBC, and Fox saying that Mr Smith is leading us into wrack and ruin, then heading back to the country club to enjoy a pleasant dinner and wife-swapping party with Mr and Mrs Smith.

It would be more honest to say, "I disagree with my good friend Mr Smith because CorporationX has told me they're going to build a major structure in my district if I block Mr Smith's proposal." But would it be better?!
 Siren.Lordgrim
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By Siren.Lordgrim 2015-02-21 11:36:33
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Who Owns the Right to Your Body?
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By fonewear 2015-02-21 11:41:40
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I think we should bring back duels!!
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-02-21 11:43:12
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Siren.Lordgrim said: »
Who Owns the Right to Your Body?
YouTube Video Placeholder
YouTube Video Placeholder


Lordgrim, are you being honest? I mean, if you really are, why are you ignoring facts that hurt/destroy your position?

Where's your "honesty" and "truth" if you refuse to look at it when it is dancing right in front of you?
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By fonewear 2015-02-21 11:45:44
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Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
Honestly as representatives of an ideal, politicians should be held to a standard of respecting their opponents and engaging in civil discourse. The trend towards insulting opponents in a crass, open handed manner and generally disrespecting the office is not becoming of good governance. This doesn't mean back down from the needling wit or prose but seriously, respect the office if nothing else.

We're a few steps from calling eachother doo-doo heads at this rate. Inviting foreign leaders to speak and bash the government? Seriously?

Civil discourse I won't allow it !
 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-02-21 11:50:36
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Siren.Lordgrim said: »
I post stupid videos and don't reply when challenged.
Yes Lordgrim, we know.
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 Shiva.Onorgul
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2015-02-21 12:09:44
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Siren.Lordgrim said: »
Who Owns the Right to Your Body?
YouTube Video Placeholder
Since it was only 4 minutes, I actually watched this. It was irritating.

First off, credit where credit is due, the female producer (I missed her name and don't feel like finding it) did actually point out the issues of herd immunity and public health. However, Ventura completely skates past that to ramble incoherently about a separate issue.

Secondly, he demonstrates the usual failure to understand statistics. He does acknowledge that vaccine-related injuries are very rare, but he forgets that the injuries related to not vaccinating, especially on a wide scale, are not nearly as rare. My heart goes out to any parent whose child suffers an adverse reaction to a vaccine, though the scientist in me remembers that every one of those kids who has that reaction would, had they not been vaccinated and ever been exposed to the pathogen in question, have developed a very dangerous, very possibly fatal, case of the disease in question (if memory serves, the major culprit in DTaP is pertussis, "whooping cough").

The claim that people injured by vaccines are without recourse is nonsense, though. The Supreme Court has ruled we can't sue companies that produce vaccines exactly because we have a national board that investigates and has a fund for those incredibly rare few cases of vaccine-related injury. My physician friends have even had the unhappy duty of reporting a case or two to that board. Someone is telling lies, as usual.

Getting back to the real problem, though, of whether you own your body or not, the issue of vaccination is one of public health, not personal health. Like many things that people consistently claim are issues of "It's my body, I'll do what I like," the problem is that what you may do to yourself has ramifications beyond your own body. There are no laws preventing you from getting a tattoo or piercing because the few negative repercussions basically only affect you alone. Not vaccinating, and let's not forget that it's not "you" who isn't getting vaccinated, it's your sacrificial lamb of a child, endangers both another person and many other people.

If we want to talk about ownership of one's own body, relying on the slippery slope fallacy is not the way to do it. It's oh-so-easy to claim that requiring vaccination for the sake of public health will lead to other things, but we've had effectively mandatory vaccination for decades and none of the dire predictions have come. I wish some of them would. A recently-deceased corpse cannot be compelled by law to donate any of itself for the sake of someone else. If you don't sign an organ donor certification, your blood and organs that could save lives are allowed to decay pointlessly (unless your heirs are quick with a post-houmous authorization because, of course, "you" no longer exist). If the government truly was trying to control people's bodies, going after corpses would be a much easier battle.

Basically, it's sensationalistic nonsense. I'm disappointed that they clearly brought up all the valid points of the argument (I won't call it a debate because there's nothing to debate) and skated right past them. It indicates they know the issue but don't want to deal with it. My personal bias indicates this is because there's no logically sound way to counter issues of public health, but I may be wrong. They did unflinchingly lie about there being no recourse for vaccine-related injury, after all.
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 Shiva.Onorgul
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2015-02-21 12:14:26
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In other news, on the subject of confirmation bias and politics:

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 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2015-02-21 12:18:47
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fonewear said: »
I think we should bring back duels!!

Mr. Obama I challenge you to a DUEL!
Obama: I agree. Time and place?
*day of the duel*
I'm here, where is the socialist coward!?
*drone whirrs*
Oh for ***'s sake.....
*boom*

*fades on Obama laughing*
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By Jetackuu 2015-02-21 19:41:44
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By Altimaomega 2015-02-21 21:14:30
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Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
Here's the explanation, compared to the global raw data the adjusted is 3% higher. Massive scam right?

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Youtube.. It must be true.
 Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2015-02-22 03:56:51
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Shiva.Onorgul said: »
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
The trend towards insulting opponents in a crass, open handed manner and generally disrespecting the office is not becoming of good governance.
This "trend" you're referring to goes back centuries. I can dig up quotations from 1800s American politicians who said what they thought.
You can dig up quotes from ancient Rome and Greece, at the very least.
 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-02-22 05:03:01
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Quote:

Amou Hadji made headlines this week after a story circulated that he hasn’t bathed himself in 60 years. The 80-year-old Iranian man sat down for a brief photo series that details what could happen to the human body.

Not surprisingly, Hadji has a deep odor and his skin is tough and scaly. Hadji is homeless and refuses to eat food or drink clean water. His favorite food is dead porcupine and he regularly smokes a pipe filled with animal feces. Hadji claims that he has chosen this lifestyle to stay in touch with with the earth.
This man hasn’t taken a bath since 1954
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By fonewear 2015-02-22 08:19:59
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I bet he smells better than a hippie!
 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-02-22 08:45:27
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Who would have thought the secret to long lasting life was never bathing and smoking animal feces.
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By fonewear 2015-02-22 09:02:01
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I thought it was drinking and doing drugs !
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By Fenrir.Schutz 2015-02-22 09:17:29
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Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Who would have thought the secret to long lasting life was never bathing and smoking animal feces.

You might be glossing over the porcupine. :p That just might be a key factor--you never know.
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-02-22 09:44:16
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Fenrir.Schutz said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Who would have thought the secret to long lasting life was never bathing and smoking animal feces.

You might be glossing over the porcupine. :p That just might be a key factor--you never know.
True. Can't forget the diet as well.

So porcupines, never bathing, and smoking animal feces are the secrets to long life.
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By fonewear 2015-02-22 09:49:33
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I stay in touch with mother Earth by drinking over priced coffee at Starbucks !

It's how I give back to the Earth !
 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2015-02-22 10:10:03
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It seems Alti is right about something! Certain "climate scientists" have been getting paid for their "research papers." But not the 99.5%, the 0.5%.

Deeper Ties to Corporate Cash for Doubtful Climate Researcher The NY Times

And being behind a paywall I will copypasta the whole thing.

Quote:
For years, politicians wanting to block legislation on climate change have bolstered their arguments by pointing to the work of a handful of scientists who claim that greenhouse gases pose little risk to humanity.

One of the names they invoke most often is Wei-Hock Soon, known as Willie, a scientist at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics who claims that variations in the sun’s energy can largely explain recent global warming. He has often appeared on conservative news programs, testified before Congress and in state capitals, and starred at conferences of people who deny the risks of global warming.

But newly released documents show the extent to which Dr. Soon’s work has been tied to funding he received from corporate interests.

He has accepted more than $1.2 million in money from the fossil-fuel industry over the last decade while failing to disclose that conflict of interest in most of his scientific papers. At least 11 papers he has published since 2008 omitted such a disclosure, and in at least eight of those cases, he appears to have violated ethical guidelines of the journals that published his work.

The documents show that Dr. Soon, in correspondence with his corporate funders, described many of his scientific papers as “deliverables” that he completed in exchange for their money. He used the same term to describe testimony he prepared for Congress.

Though Dr. Soon did not respond to questions about the documents, he has long stated that his corporate funding has not influenced his scientific findings.

The documents were obtained by Greenpeace, the environmental group, under the Freedom of Information Act. Greenpeace and an allied group, the Climate Investigations Center, shared them with several news organizations last week.

The documents shed light on the role of scientists like Dr. Soon in fostering public debate over whether human activity is causing global warming. The vast majority of experts have concluded that it is and that greenhouse emissions pose long-term risks to civilization.

Historians and sociologists of science say that since the tobacco wars of the 1960s, corporations trying to block legislation that hurts their interests have employed a strategy of creating the appearance of scientific doubt, usually with the help of ostensibly independent researchers who accept industry funding.

Fossil-fuel interests have followed this approach for years, but the mechanics of their activities remained largely hidden.

“The whole doubt-mongering strategy relies on creating the impression of scientific debate,” said Naomi Oreskes, a historian of science at Harvard University and the co-author of “Merchants of Doubt,” a book about such campaigns. “Willie Soon is playing a role in a certain kind of political theater.”

Environmentalists have long questioned Dr. Soon’s work, and his acceptance of funding from the fossil-fuel industry was previously known. But the full extent of the links was not; the documents show that corporate contributions were tied to specific papers and were not disclosed, as required by modern standards of publishing.

“What it shows is the continuation of a long-term campaign by specific fossil-fuel companies and interests to undermine the scientific consensus on climate change,” said Kert Davies, executive director of the Climate Investigations Center, a group funded by foundations seeking to limit the risks of climate change.

Charles R. Alcock, director of the Harvard-Smithsonian Center, acknowledged on Friday that Dr. Soon had violated the disclosure standards of some journals.

“I think that’s inappropriate behavior,” Dr. Alcock said. “This frankly becomes a personnel matter, which we have to handle with Dr. Soon internally.”

Dr. Soon is employed by the Smithsonian Institution, which jointly sponsors the astrophysics center with Harvard.

“I am aware of the situation with Willie Soon, and I’m very concerned about it,” W. John Kress, interim under secretary for science at the Smithsonian in Washington, said on Friday. “We are checking into this ourselves.”

Dr. Soon rarely grants interviews to reporters, and he did not respond to multiple emails and phone calls last week; nor did he respond to an interview request conveyed to him by his employer. In past public appearances, he has reacted angrily to questions about his funding sources, but then acknowledged some corporate ties and said that they had not altered his scientific findings.

“I write proposals; I let them decide whether to fund me or not,” he said at an event in Madison, Wis., in 2013. “If they choose to fund me, I’m happy to receive it.” A moment later, he added, “I would never be motivated by money for anything.”

The newly disclosed documents, plus additional documents compiled by Greenpeace over the last four years, show that at least $409,000 of Dr. Soon’s funding in the past decade came from Southern Company Services, a subsidiary of the Southern Company, based in Atlanta.

Southern is one of the largest utility holding companies in the country, with huge investments in coal-burning power plants. The company has spent heavily over many years to lobby against greenhouse-gas regulations in Washington. More recently, it has spent significant money to research ways to limit emissions.

“Southern Company funds a broad range of research on a number of topics that have potentially significant public-policy implications for our business,” said Jeannice M. Hall, a spokeswoman. The company declined to answer detailed questions about its funding of Dr. Soon’s research.

Dr. Soon also received at least $230,000 from the Charles G. Koch Charitable Foundation. (Mr. Koch’s fortune derives partly from oil refining.) However, other companies and industry groups that once supported Dr. Soon, including Exxon Mobil and the American Petroleum Institute, appear to have eliminated their grants to him in recent years.

As the oil-industry contributions fell, Dr. Soon started receiving hundreds of thousands of dollars through DonorsTrust, an organization based in Alexandria, Va., that accepts money from donors who wish to remain anonymous, then funnels it to various conservative causes.

The Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics, in Cambridge, Mass., is a joint venture between Harvard and the Smithsonian Institution, housing some 300 scientists from both institutions. Because the Smithsonian is a government agency, Greenpeace was able to request that Dr. Soon’s correspondence and grant agreements be released under the Freedom of Information Act.

Though often described on conservative news programs as a “Harvard astrophysicist,” Dr. Soon is not an astrophysicist and has never been employed by Harvard. He is a part-time employee of the Smithsonian Institution with a doctoral degree in aerospace engineering. He has received little federal research money over the past decade and is thus responsible for bringing in his own funds, including his salary.

Though he has little formal training in climatology, Dr. Soon has for years published papers trying to show that variations in the sun’s energy can explain most recent global warming. His thesis is that human activity has played a relatively small role in causing climate change.

Many experts in the field say that Dr. Soon uses out-of-date data, publishes spurious correlations between solar output and climate indicators, and does not take account of the evidence implicating emissions from human behavior in climate change.

Gavin A. Schmidt, head of the Goddard Institute for Space Studies in Manhattan, a NASA division that studies climate change, said that the sun had probably accounted for no more than 10 percent of recent global warming and that greenhouse gases produced by human activity explained most of it.

“The science that Willie Soon does is almost pointless,” Dr. Schmidt said.

The Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics, whose scientists focus largely on understanding distant stars and galaxies, routinely distances itself from Dr. Soon’s findings. The Smithsonian has also published a statement accepting the scientific consensus on climate change.

Dr. Alcock said that, aside from the disclosure issue, he thought it was important to protect Dr. Soon’s academic freedom, even if most of his colleagues disagreed with his findings.

Dr. Soon has found a warm welcome among politicians in Washington and state capitals who try to block climate action. United States Senator James M. Inhofe, an Oklahoma Republican who claims that climate change is a global scientific hoax, has repeatedly cited Dr. Soon’s work over the years.

In a Senate debate last month, Mr. Inhofe pointed to a poster with photos of scientists questioning the climate-change consensus, including Dr. Soon. “These are scientists that cannot be challenged,” the senator said. A spokeswoman for the senator said Friday that he was traveling and could not be reached for comment.

As of late last week, most of the journals in which Dr. Soon’s work had appeared were not aware of the newly disclosed documents. The Climate Investigations Center is planning to notify them over the coming week. Several journals advised of the situation by The New York Times said they would look into the matter.

Robert J. Strangeway, the editor of a journal that published three of Dr. Soon’s papers, said that editors relied on authors to be candid about any conflicts of interest. “We assume that when people put stuff in a paper, or anywhere else, they’re basically being honest,” said Dr. Strangeway, editor of the Journal of Atmospheric and Solar-Terrestrial Physics.

Dr. Oreskes, the Harvard science historian, said that academic institutions and scientific journals had been too lax in recent decades in ferreting out dubious research created to serve a corporate agenda.

“I think universities desperately need to look more closely at this issue,” Dr. Oreskes said. She added that Dr. Soon’s papers omitting disclosure of his corporate funding should be retracted by the journals that published them.
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