New High Level Battlefield Wins?

I've definitely seen situations in AA for example that a melee pulls hate on Elvaan and gets one shotted by arrogance incarnate so they are adding moves that one shot most DDs that don't have bdt sets.

Even most of the other ws moves EV does do a lot of dmg if your not in a pdt set.

Now arrogance incarnate I can see most DDs dying to but, the other ws shouldn't be an issue and shed enough enmity from dmg that the pld can reclaim.

Depending on Tenzen's Meikyo Shisui skillchain combination, he'll end up with either Cosmic Elucidation, or Universal Enlightenment.

our run from earlier. We did 2 and there were was no threat to the run at all. Going to try Difficult today after work.

Just did difficult and its beyond easy. Just a standard zerg rly. We were using mnkx2 drg brd cor whm.

Did a VD and won with MNK/NIN x2, SAM/NIN, WHM, COR, BRD/BLM

One Spharai, other had new Delve H2H, and the SAM had mythic. Complete joke of a fight. Just keep the tarus slept the whole time. They will resist after a while, but with T/N and resets when needed by the COR, it's really, really easy. 8.5 minute win.

oh good news the tarus are targetable.

Were they in the old bc ?

Did a D yday, we didn't have a cor and i was brd/whm so we had no T/N or ES sleep after the first one. But I was able to land sleep on those tarus without it (one of them was particularly resistant but it was still land-able after a couple of tries). The 3 tarus are close enough together to use a horn on horde.

Probably no go on that on VD i'd imagine, but for lower difficulties you can defintely ditch the cor if you want and if the bard has decent macc build.

Sorry Spira, only thing that came to mind when you said you did a D yesterday:



Sorry!

As for the discussion about enmity and Paladins, what SE should do is simply give PLD a higher enmity cap.

I don't know if that's the solution, otherwise any pld will be able to hold hate pretty effortlessly which I don't think should happen.

A little widely known knowledge for you, Burtgang does not contribute to any sort of cap. Your PDT cap with Burtgang is 68%, not 50%. Also, PLD will never hold hate against melee jobs. The mob will spin like a top 9 times out of 10 because everyone will keep recapping enmity until either they or the mob dies.

If you are trying to say that you know for sure that burtgang doesn't contribute to the 100enmity cap or that the effect of reduce enmity loss from dmg doesnt stack with +enmity gear id love to see testing that you have done to verify this.

When i was referring to capping pdt i was talking about 68% not 50%.

I dont think ppl actually realize what achieving 100enmity on gear actually means in terms of enmity. It means that you never lose CE so you are always capped at 10000. now VE is very easy to cap and maintain. This is why i was referencing the fact that DDs will take hate every now and again because it will be in situations where the pld is losing VE on tick and the DD just weapon skilled and likely capped hate but once the DD starts taking dmg that they will shed hate and have to build it back up again.

Another misconception that i am seeing in the the generation of enmity is its not 1:1 any more. its more like on 30% of the dmg that you are doing is generation enmity. Now for all you DDs that say that -enmity gear is useless when you incorprate that into the adjustments they have already made its might help solve the spinning top situation.

SE has even came out and said that they are not going to make it so that DDs dont have to worry about hate.

Chances are its not "simple" to do that (in before people who know nothing about programming cite spaghetti code), also this isn't ffxiv with hard taunts and an uncapped enmity system where DPS don't have to worry about hate at all once tanks have had ~10 seconds to do a full rotation.

If they raised PLD enmity cap even 10%, then well geared pld would never lose hate ever once they get above the normal cap. This would eliminate most of the few aspects that remain a challenge.

Rev coronet +1: pdt 5 enmity 5
Cab surcoat +1: dt 10 enmity 10
Cab gauntlet+1: Enmity 7
Cab breeches+1: pdt 5 enmity 7
Cab leggings+1: mdt 5 Enmity 6
Twilight torque: dt 5
Dring: Dt 10
Dark ring: Pdt6
Zoran belt or cetl belt
Mollusca mantle: dt 5
Angha stone: Pdt 2
Colossus earring pdt 1
Darkness earring pdt1 enmity 1

Total without burtgang: pdt 50 mdt 35 (caps with shell) enmity 36 and cap haste in a single current set.
Without burtgang, with burtgang you can cap enmity to 50, unless the cap isnt 50 or burtgang surpass the cap of 50. If thats the case, ok, you taught me something, thanks. If no, you didnt give a "little widely knowledge".

About your suposition that pld cant hold hate with melees, personally i didnt do it myself, im behind the current content, but i read all post in this forum, kese posted long ago his win against vd mithra with thf nin pld. He showed its possible to pld, of not entirely hold hate, at least garantee melees surviability. You yelling its not possible just show you are too lazy to actually test yourself, or that you need a bit "little widely knowledge". Ah, and to stop being so arrogant. If its "widely knowledge", prob i know too, genius...

At any battle with high dificult, melees wont be fighting at full strenght. You wont have 2x march and 2x minuet. You will have madrigals instead minuets, will have hydrid pdt sets, will eat sushi, and will fight a highly defense/evasion mob, reducing a lot your dps, so making possible to pld hold hate, as it was showed in the kese video (and ofc, thf helped in enmity hate, but thats part of game also, better that crying out and loud "it cant, it cant").

Finally, just add 1 plus 1. Feb se changed how enmity works. It reduced the enmity gain, adjusted how enmty gear works, and now gave everyone (but tanks) enmity- gear. Prob se is trying to fix something. Pretending this effort is unefective, that nothing will change, that i can play forever as rng/pld combo is trying to not to see the reality.

Nah, he just undestimated me thinking i didnt know about burtgang and its properties so considering its pdt in a 50% pdt cap, when i was actually refering that just burtgang provide the enmity to hit 50. The question was a set that could cap haste, pdt, mdt and enmity alltogether, and thats just possible with the enmity from burt.

Unless I missed an update recently, enmity increase caps at +50 and enmity decrease caps at -50.

(enmity for gear caps at +100 not 50. -enmity caps at 50)according to bgwiki. Now if you have any testing to show that it is not 100 id love to see it.

when you sentinel you are actually achieving a +100 enmity rating that's why it is so good to do provokes and flashes while sentinel is up because it doubles the enmity that you would have normally gotten.

With the latest update to enmity though +enmity decreases the amount of enmity lost. while at this time to my knowledge it is not known what exactly the rate of decay of enmity it is per 1 enmity and if it stacks with gear that reduces enmity loss from dmg.

I don't think I've ever seen someone be wrong so many times in 1 post.

Please just go read and understand how enmity works before engaging in a debate on it. Its painfully obvious that you do not.

Being behind on current content is no excuse, the enmity system itself remains unchanged, only the rate at which it is gained and lost has been altered.

1. Enmity+ cap is not 50, its either 100 or more than 100.
2. Nin is the exception to melee jobs on AAs, it has considerably better survival against VD AAs than other DDs.
3. Even against GK VD a melee will cap hate, it just takes longer due to the large amount of DT.
4. SE did not change the enmity caps, they are just trying to adjust the rate at which it is gained/lost down to suit the amount of damage we can do, this doesn't help pld tank any better if you have DDs capping hate.

Was ninja sub required? I'm assuming you guys just zerged it down.

This.

And while it's helpful for enmity generation at the start, no amount of enmity will keep the mob looking at you while everyone is recapping hate with each melee attack.

While I agree with you to some extent that DDs still run into the hate cap, the rate of generation and decrease can not be so easily dismissed in terms of the plds or other tank jobs ability to hold hate there are a lot of factors that are involved. One thing just for example is that dmg is not the only thing that decreases enmity status debuff also contribute to shedding hate.

Now I know a lot of ppl are looking at these new weapons and say they are no good an all but honestly with the last update to enmity and the fact that -enmity sheds even more enmity now (more then 1:1) it could take far less -enmity now to achieve the -50 cap if in fact the cap is a reduction cap but if its a pure enmity cap then you could be looking at getting more then -50% reduction.

I completely agree with you that the cap needs to be adjust. What they are doing is really a band aid. but it falls in line with what they consider the mechanics of tanking in that DDs should have to worry about pulling hate. they are just adjusting the rate at which that happens now I was just suggesting a situation where given the stat upgrade to creed gear is sufficient you might be able to lock hate in a sense at lease CE wise. Even with this ability its not a real enmity lock because VE decays at a static rate. So there are going to be situations where DDs still pull hate by capping CE/VE but the only difference is now that the amount that they are going to loose is greater then the amount they would have gained if they are taking dmg. this is why I am saying that as a DD as long as you can with stand spike in dmg that the pld should be able to reclaim fairly easily before you die.

My mistake, I thought it was the same in both directions. Turns out +enmity has a much higher cap.

If it takes you more than 15mins of reading to understand the basics of the enmity system and its caps, then there is something wrong.

If you can't even be bothered to understand the concept why are you engaging in a debate on it?


Actually look at the situations where pld is used, there aren't that many and its usually because DDs go from full hp/buffs > dead in a very short space of time. VD MR EV and especially HM, can kill a DD before a whm can do anything unless they're full timing PDT gear or you happen to be nin. So unless your pld can guarantee to hold hate all the time, you're better off bringing a rng who definitely won't die than a melee who has a very good chance of doing so.

The other examples would be Nexus and Marjami delve which isn't relevant to the enmity debate.

In the case of VD yes you are right that is a difficulty setting that I would not bring a standard run of the mill melee into because of the abilities and the amount of dmg that the NMs can do in such a short time and even then the likely hood that they will get one shotted is very high.

theres really nothing a whm can do against a 2500 arrogance incarnate lol.

what I think the game really needs is an enmity gauge. To inform players so they can manually adjust accordingly.

really I think it comes down to the skill of the players and how well geared they are that you are bringing with you in the fight more then the jobs themselves.

the pld rng rng rng whm brd set up is both useful in the sense that it can assure a win a majority of the time by decreasing the amount a deaths in a run but it is also incredibly boring.

Why would i bother understanding something if dds will cap anyway?

Shouldnt be getting hit for 2500 if you have scherzo up. If you're doing D/VD EV and arent getting Scherzo, you're asking to fail.

This just isn't the case, setup is paramount in most high end content.

Somehow being better at hitting your WS macro and utsusemi macros doesn't mean you will magically be able to have a pld tank efficiently with melees. The better and more buffed the DDs are the more they will pull hate.

Turning every time you get hate isn't being good or efficient, because in that scenario you should have just come rng.


Glad to see its finally sinking in.