Russia And Ukraine

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Russia and Ukraine
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-04-18 22:31:19
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Shiva.Viciousss said: »
No, they are definitely not saying that, and no, I am not buying into anything. If Putin wants to de-escalate the situation, he can withdraw his troops from Crimea, anything else and he is the guiltiest party when it comes to war/fear mongering.
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 Shiva.Viciousss
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-04-18 22:34:02
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As opposed to your opinions? Ok.
 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-04-18 22:34:45
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Yes.
 Odin.Godofgods
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By Odin.Godofgods 2014-04-20 12:07:30
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Quote:
SLAVIANSK, Ukraine - At least three people were killed in a gunfight in the early hours of Sunday near a Ukrainian city controlled by pro-Russian separatists, shaking an already fragile international accord that was designed to avert a wider conflict.

The incident triggered a war of words between Moscow and Ukraine's western-backed government with each questioning the other's compliance with the agreement, brokered last week in Geneva, to end a crisis that has made Russia's ties with the West more fraught than at any time since the Cold War.

The separatists said armed men from Ukraine's Right Sector nationalist group had attacked them. The Right Sector denied any role, saying Russian special forces were behind the clash.

Failure of the Geneva agreement could bring more bloodshed in eastern Ukraine, but may also prompt the United States early next week to impose tougher sanctions on the Kremlin - with far-reaching potential consequences for many economies and for importers of Russian energy.

The deal signed in Geneva last week by the European Union, Russia, Ukraine and the United States agreed that illegal armed groups would go home.

So far, the pro-Russian militants have shown no signs of budging, though there was some hope of progress after Kiev said it would not move against the separatists over Easter, and international mediators headed to eastern Ukraine to try to persuade them to disarm.

But the shootings near Slaviansk - already a flashpoint for tensions between Ukraine's rival camps - are likely to make that task even harder, hardening the view of pro-Russian sections of society that they cannot trust Kiev.

"The Easter truce has been violated," the Russian foreign ministry said in a statement. "This provocation ... testifies to the lack of will on the part of the Kiev authorities to rein in and disarm nationalists and extremists."

The town's self-appointed pro-Russia mayor placed a curfew on the town and appealed directly to Russia's Vladimir Putin to consider sending in peace-keeping troops.

The Ukrainian foreign ministry hit back, reproaching Russia for hurrying to comment, without having the facts to hand to support its accusations.

"The Russian side must be reminded about their obligations under the Geneva agreement to bring all necessary influence to bear on separatists to clear illegally held buildings, unblock roads, lay down arms and prevent any bloodshed," a statement said.

Right Sector spokesman Artem Skoropadsky said it was a "blasphemous provocation from Russia: blasphemous because it took place on a holy night for Christians, on Easter night. This was clearly carried out by Russian special forces."

Separatist militiamen near the eastern Ukrainian city of Slaviansk told Reuters four vehicles had approached their checkpoint at around 2:00 a.m. (2300 GMT) and opened fire.

"We had three dead, four wounded," one of the separatist fighters, called Vladimir, told Reuters at the checkpoint, where there were two burned-out jeeps.

He said the separatists returned fire and killed two of the attackers, who he said were members of the nationalist movement which has its power base in the Ukrainian-speaking west of the country and is reviled by many in the Russian-speaking east.

Police in Kiev said three people had been killed and three wounded.

A Reuters cameraman at the scene said he saw the bodies of two people, one with what appeared to be gunshot wounds to the head and face, lying in the back of a truck.

One of the dead was dressed in camouflage fatigues, the other, identified by several bystanders as a local man, was in civilian clothes.

The deaths were the first in armed clashes in eastern Ukraine since the Geneva accord was signed on Thursday.

NO WILL TO MOVE

The crisis in Ukraine began late last year when President Viktor Yanukovich turned his back on closer ties with Europe, prompting protests in the capital. They led to him fleeing Kiev, and a pro-Western interim administration taking over.

Soon after, Moscow used its military to back separatists in Ukraine's Crimea, before Putin signed a document annexing the peninsula. The United States and European Union responded by slapping sanctions on Russian officials.

The crisis has now shifted to the east of Ukraine, where armed groups of pro-Russian separatists have seized public buildings, saying they reject Kiev's rule. Adding to the tension, Russia has deployed extra troops on the border with Ukraine.

Russia says it is not interfering in Ukraine, but that it has an obligation to protect the Russian-speaking community in the east from the rulers in Kiev, who it says are illegitimate, have ties to the far-right, and discriminate against ethnic Russians.

A senior mediator with the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) set off for eastern Ukraine on Saturday to try to persuade pro-Russian groups to lay down their arms, in line with the Geneva accord.

After a meeting on Saturday in the Ukrainian capital, Swiss envoy Christian Schoenenberger, whose country is chair of the OSCE, said its monitors had spoken to several activists occupying public buildings.

"For the time being the political will is not there to move out," he said.

GOODWILL GESTURE

The Ukrainian foreign ministry had promised that, as a gesture of goodwill for the Easter holiday, it would suspend the active phase of an operation it had launched to re-assert its authority in the east of the country.

In another sign of reconciliation, the Interior Ministry issued an Easter message which asked members of the ministry's disbanded Berkut unit to help defend Ukraine's unity.

In the days when Yanukovich was clinging to power in Kiev, Berkut members are alleged to have been responsible for shooting dead dozens of protesters. Their unit was disbanded, and some of them have joined the pro-Russian separatists.

However, many people in eastern Ukraine, with its large Russian-speaking population, feel deep suspicion of the new authorities in Kiev.

The separatists say they will not leave the buildings they have occupied until the pro-Kiev protest groups occupying Independence Square - scene of the months-long protests against Yanukovich, also go home.

They want guarantees that they will be given a large degree of autonomy from Kiev and that protections of their rights will be enshrined in a new constitution.

At Easter church services in Kiev and in Moscow, senior clergymen issued sharply contrasting appeals for peace.

"In these Easter days our prayers to God are for the people of Ukraine, for a reconciliation of enmity, for an end of violence, for people's love for each other, so that they should not be divided," Patriarch Krill, head of the Russian Orthodox Church, said in a recorded video message.

In his Easter message, Patriarch Filaret, head of Ukraine's Orthodox Church, condemned what he described as Russia's aggression against his country.

"God cannot be on the side of evil, so the enemy of the Ukrainian people is condemned to defeat," he said. "Lord, help us resurrect Ukraine."

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By Jetackuu 2014-04-20 12:12:00
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Shiva.Viciousss said: »
No, they are definitely not saying that, and no, I am not buying into anything. If Putin wants to de-escalate the situation, he can withdraw his troops from Crimea, anything else and he is the guiltiest party when it comes to war/fear mongering.
/thread.
 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-04-20 12:14:53
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I'm glad Reuters is finally doing some fair reporting on this issue for a change.
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By Jetackuu 2014-04-20 12:19:26
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hmm.
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 Odin.Godofgods
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By Odin.Godofgods 2014-04-22 17:36:39
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Quote:
American Journalist Detained in Eastern Ukraine

An American journalist is being held by unidentified local authorities in eastern Ukraine, NBC News has confirmed.

Simon Ostrovsky, a reporter and producer for Vice News, was detained with five other journalists Monday night in the city of Slaviansk. The five others were released. No other details are available about Ostrovsky's detention or condition.

A Vice spokesman said in a statement to NBC News:

"VICE is aware of the situation and is in contact with the United States State Department and other appropriate government authorities to secure the safety and security of our friend and colleague, Simon Ostrovsky."

“We of course condemn the taking of hostages,” State Department spokesperson Jen Psaki said Tuesday. “I don't have any additional information on this reported individual," Psaki said of Ostrovsky.

The self-declared separatist mayor of Slaviansk, Vyacheslav Ponomarev, said at a news conference that his men were holding an American journalist, but did not name Ostrovsky, according to Reuters.

Ostrovsky was covering a tense news conference held by Ponomarev in Slaviansk, from which he posted a series of tweets:


Sloviansk pro-Russia 'mayor' threatens to throw journalist out for "provocative" question about former mayor being held under guard
11:09 AM - 21 Apr 2014

Now he's not letting reporters leave the press conference: "you'll go as you came in. In a group." That's one way to guarantee coverage.
11:29 AM - 21 Apr 2014


Ostrovsky has been in Ukraine throughout the crisis, reporting extensively on Crimea's breakaway and its annexation by Russia. He told MSNBC last week that events in the eastern part of the country mirror those that occurred in Crimea.

"A lot of the same things seem to be happening," Ostrovsky said on MSNBC's "All In With Chris Hayes." "The next step seems like it might be exactly what happened in Crimea."

Ostrovsky told Huffington Post in an interview last month that he has encountered overwhelming hostility in trying to report from the region.

“I think it’s because of the propaganda that Russia is broadcasting over the television networks 24/7, brainwashing the people out here into thinking that the entire world has come out against Russia,” he said in a phone interview from the Crimea regional capital of Simferopol.

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 Odin.Godofgods
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By Odin.Godofgods 2014-04-26 11:54:54
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Quote:
G-7 nations agree to more sanctions on Russia



DONETSK, Ukraine — The United States and other nations in the Group of Seven agreed Friday to "move swiftly" to impose additional economic sanctions on Russia in response to its actions in Ukraine.

In a joint statement released Friday night by the White House, the G-7 nations said they will act urgently to intensify "targeted sanctions." The statement said the G-7 will also continue to prepare broader sanctions on key Russian economic sectors if Moscow takes more aggressive action.

The White House said U.S. sanctions could be levied as early as Monday.

The announcement came as top Ukrainians spoke of imminent invasion and Moscow said that pro-Russian separatists would not lay down their arms in eastern Ukraine until activists relinquish control over key sites in Kiev.

The G-7 nations said they were moving forward on the targeted sanctions now because of the urgency of securing plans for Ukraine to hold presidential elections next month.

The penalties are expected to target wealthy Russian individuals who are close to President Vladimir Putin, as well as entities they run. However, the U.S. will continue to hold off on targeting broad swaths of the Russian economy, though the president has said he is willing to take that step if Putin launches a military incursion in eastern Ukraine.

A senior Obama administration official said each country in the G-7 would determine their own sanctions. While the sanctions will be coordinated, they will not necessarily be identical, according to the official, who was not authorized to discuss the matter publicly and insisted on anonymity.

The White House released the G-7 statement hours after Obama convened a conference call with European leaders to gauge their commitment to additional sanctions.

Ben Rhodes, Obama's deputy national security adviser, said in a briefing with reporters that sanctions were possible on individuals with influence in specific sectors of the Russian economy, such as energy and banking.

"When you start to get at the cronies, the individuals who frankly control large parts of the Russia economy, and some of the entities under their control, you are imposing a significant economic impact beyond strictly sanctioning an individual," he said.

Tensions were heightened on the ground, with Russian fighter jets reported crossing into Ukrainian airspace and a team of unarmed foreign military observers detained by pro-Russian forces in Slovyansk, the heart of the separatist movement in the east.

With last week's Geneva agreement calling on all illegal armed groups to lay down their weapons and hand over occupied cities and facilities in tatters, both sides exchanged threats and warnings Friday.

Accusing the West of plotting to control Ukraine, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov declared that pro-Russia insurgents in the country's east would only disarm and leave the territory they have occupied if the Ukrainian government clears out a protest camp in Kiev's Independence Square, known as the Maidan, and evicts activists from other occupied facilities.

"The West wants — and this is how it all began — to seize control of Ukraine because of their own political ambitions, not in the interests of the Ukrainian people," Lavrov said.

Pro-Russia insurgents will disarm and vacate buildings "only if Kiev authorities get down to implementing the Geneva accords, clear out that shameful Maidan and liberate the buildings that have been illegally seized," the Russian foreign minister said.

Ukraine's reaction was swift.

"The world has not yet forgotten World War II, but Russia is already keen on starting World War III," Ukraine's acting prime minister, Arseniy Yatsenyuk told a meeting of his Cabinet.

At the United Nations, Ukraine's deputy foreign minister, Danylo Lubkivsky said he feared an imminent Russian invasion.

"We have the information we are in danger," Lubkivsky told reporters, saying Russian military maneuvers involving air and ground forces along the Ukraine border were a "very dangerous development."

"We are going to protect our motherland against any invasion," Lubkivsky said. "We call on the Russians to stop this madness."

The heightened rhetoric came as U.S. officials reported that Russian fighter jets flew into Ukrainian airspace several times over the last 24 hours, in what one called a provocation.

It wasn't clear what the intent was, but the aircraft could have been testing Ukrainian radar or making a show of force, said the officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to talk publicly about the issue.

The flights came as Russia increased military exercises along the Ukraine border, including moving a broad array of fixed wing and rotary aircraft, infantry and armored troops — further inflaming fears of a potential Russian military incursion into Ukraine.

In another worrying development, a group of foreign military observers traveling under the auspices of the Organization of Security and Cooperation in Europe were detained by pro-Russia separatists in Slovyansk.

The German-led team was accused of possessing "suspicious materials," said Stella Khorosheva, a spokeswoman for the town's self-proclaimed separatist mayor. She said they were unharmed and would be released after further investigation.

Germany's Defense Ministry said it had lost contact with the team, which it said was made up of 13 people — five Ukrainians, three German soldiers, a German translator and one soldier each from the Czech Republic, Poland, Sweden and Denmark.

Even before the G-7 announced new sanctions were in the works, ratings agency Standard & Poor's cut Russia's credit rating to near junk, saying tensions over Ukraine were causing investors to pull money out of the country.

Moscow hiked interest rates to keep its sliding ruble from fueling inflation.

The soaring prosperity that has been a cornerstone of Putin's popularity already had been heading for a slowdown before the Ukraine crisis hit, as Russian oil and gas exports slowed and the country's reliance on extractive industries remained high.

The ratings cut, the first in five years, came as capital flight from Russia in the first three months of this year totaled about $70 billion — more than all of 2013.

Yulia Torhovets, a spokeswoman for the Kiev city government, said activists have promised to leave Kiev's occupied city hall by the end of the week.

The Maidan tent camp and occupation of government buildings in the capital are rooted in the monthslong protests that culminated in pro-Russia president Viktor Yanukovych fleeing the country for Russia in February. The hundreds of demonstrators and activists who remain say they want to pressure the new government to enact promised reforms and to protect the buildings from attack by pro-Russia forces.

The occupiers in Kiev consist largely of nationalist sympathizers, including the far-right group Right Sector, who were a core element of the anti-Yanukovych protests. Although more moderate elements of the new government are uncomfortable with them, forcing them out would be risky.

"We are defending and helping them, but at the same time they feel threatened by us, we keep them in check," activist Oleksandr Zhak said Friday.

There were scattered reports of violence Friday. Ukraine's Defense Ministry said a grenade fired from a launcher caused an explosion in a helicopter at an airfield outside the eastern city of Kramatorsk, wounding a pilot.

In southern Ukraine, seven people were wounded by a blast at a checkpoint set up by local authorities and pro-Ukraine activists outside the Black Sea port of Odessa. Police spokesman Volodymyr Shablienko said unknown men had thrown a grenade at the checkpoint.

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 Shiva.Viciousss
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-04-26 12:02:19
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Inb4 Russia shrugs them off while their economy continues to tank.
 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-04-26 12:26:07
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In reality though, this will end only with the split up of Ukraine into two countries, east and west.

The west will be called something like 'The Democratic Republic of Ukraine' and the east with something like 'The People's Republic of Novorossiya.'
 Cerberus.Tidis
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By Cerberus.Tidis 2014-04-26 13:41:24
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If Ukraine split into 2, the east would probably just join Russia.
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-04-26 13:47:21
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Cerberus.Tidis said: »
If Ukraine split into 2, the east would probably just join Russia.
Maybe, but if they did give the east a formal name, then they could technically give Crimea back to The People's Republic of Novorossiya and Russia could then claim it gave back the territory.
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-04-26 13:51:39
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Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Cerberus.Tidis said: »
If Ukraine split into 2, the east would probably just join Russia.
Maybe, but if they did give the east a formal name, then they could technically give Crimea back to The People's Republic of Novorossiya and Russia could then claim it gave back the territory.

There is likely no other reason for Ukraine to split than the East to become a Russian territory.

Honestly, this kind of ideology is typical of the short-sighted culture that has created much of Ukraine's problems.
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-04-26 14:48:28
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Odin.Jassik said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Cerberus.Tidis said: »
If Ukraine split into 2, the east would probably just join Russia.
Maybe, but if they did give the east a formal name, then they could technically give Crimea back to The People's Republic of Novorossiya and Russia could then claim it gave back the territory.

There is likely no other reason for Ukraine to split than the East to become a Russian territory.

Honestly, this kind of ideology is typical of the short-sighted culture that has created much of Ukraine's problems.
You're over thinking it.
 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-04-27 06:43:44
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Shiva.Viciousss said: »
Inb4 Russia shrugs them off while their economy continues to tank.
If you consider having more debt than you can possibly pay off as economically viable, then sure, I could see why you would think that. (Debt as % of GDP)
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By Bahamut.Kara 2014-04-27 09:11:31
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Russia defaulted on their debt in 1998.
It is one of the reasons they have a low investment grade rating.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_Russian_financial_crisis
 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-04-27 09:26:52
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A great lesson in central banking and trying to hold on to one reserve currency for the whole world.
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By Bahamut.Kara 2014-04-27 09:51:05
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What?
Russia still has a central bank and the Russian ruble is tied valued against a euro/dollar basket.
 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-04-27 10:03:33
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And thus we have hit the true cause of this crisis with all the political stuff as collateral damage.
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By Bahamut.Kara 2014-04-27 10:12:19
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Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
And thus we have hit the true cause of this crisis with all the political stuff as collateral damage.

No, no, and no.

Even Russia is saying part of their economy dipping is because of the Ukraine crisis.

Russia still has a long way to go before they are a stable economy. They aren't as stable as China yet nor are they ranked as high as China. It is why they are classified as an emerging economy.

This "political stuff" could have years to decade consequences on their growth.
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-04-27 10:26:53
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Clearly not a currency war.
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2014-04-27 10:28:00
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Well now that Putin has gone on record claiming the internet is a CIA operation to influence Russians....was going to say something but I'm dazed by the tinfoil.
Sources:
The Guardian
AlJazeera
ABC
TIME
Business Insider
NBC

No wonder Tea Party pundits on Fox News love him so much. Birds of a Feather....
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-04-27 10:32:50
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It's just greed. Everything else is interpretation.
 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-04-27 10:34:01
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Well that and everyone wants status quo rather than change, but that's human nature as well.
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2014-04-27 10:40:57
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These are pro-Russian activists in the Ukraine. I honestly can't stop laughing at the incorrect use of Guy Fawkes.
 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-04-27 10:42:35
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I suppose it's also human nature to simplify things to good or bad, us vs them as well, or maybe that's just fear.
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2014-04-27 10:45:18
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Dichotomies and a binary or diametrical opposition are easier for people to rationalize. Ironically Russia has had an us vs them mentality when it comes to the West since before Peter the Great. Peter the Greats entire life was dictated by it.
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-04-27 10:48:29
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But it's ok for the U.S. to constantly wage war on everyone and everything that is not them since its inception.
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2014-04-27 11:02:01
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Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
But it's ok for the U.S. to constantly wage war on everyone and everything that is not them since its inception.

Nobody advocated that it was ok. But you're also taking things out of context. Everything boils down to dichotomies due to human nature. Everything in context is us vs them.

Every historical war is generalized as an us vs them at it's foundation. Even today with the petrodollar and the USD having been the global staple currency for some time creates an us v them mentality towards any group that wants to claim the perch and undermine America's current position.

edit: America having been a rebel colony has always had that paranoid mentality. At the same time The war of 1812 isn't a paranoid delusion. European empires funding sides of the US civil war in a gamble to have influence over the post Antebellum isn't make believe. Even in times of peace there has been a paranoia that the sovereignty of the US is being undermined by foreign bankers etc etc. Every nation has suffered or is suffering the same phobias in some capacity.
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