Bushido - The Way Of The Samurai (A Guide) V. 2.0

And where is the magic component in that because I just got a 3.8K on a level 1 bee from behind.

no sneak attacks with koga on targets with actual vit so no known fstr gave an average of 1215 and doji 1333. if magic damage applied the value would be higher than that.

and read up on distributive property

the magic portion is a duplication of the main hit since there is no other multipliers.

I mean is the magic damage part of that 1.6K or is it added after? Are you dividing the result by 2 under the assumption that it's just doubled?

I'm trying to point out the assumptions. The values as stated make it impossible to get the numbers we are getting, so the idea is to find out how those numbers are happening, and then how to optimize that. If it's 0.5 fTP on first hit, which is completely believable, then that further backs my WSD argument because such low fTP would make WSD have low value yet it's raising the damage far too much.

How decent is Amano afterglow? Debating between that and Ragnarok, but my Warrior isn't geared as well as my Samurai. Highly doubt I'll ever complete an Aeonic due to my work schedule.

i didn't divide anything. the magic damage is added as part of the same hit, otherwise the damage would be around 807 to 847 since the rabbit would have died to the physical only hit. even if the first hit is only .5:

(x * wsd) + (x * wsd * magic mods) is be same as ((x) + (x * magic mods)) * wsd

the large increase is potentially coming from the difference in mab and reducing of mdb and silly to assume otherwise until more conclusive tests are done.

Part of our testing was to not use malaise at all, and yeah still getting 60K. This is what lead me to start really looking into WSD and Multi-Attack procs.

Using the current theory for Hybrid WS's it shouldn't be possible to get those numbers. Now there could be all sorts of interesting things happening and I'm all ears, just putting out what I feel is primarily responsible for the obscene numbers.

well i don't what stats you had

Practically identical gearset to what Rua has. Going from Toro Mantle to WSD augmented JSE cape was a difference larger then 10%. This is damage higher then WS's like Resolution, Torcleaver and Stardiver. I used to think Jinpu was lolz until Rua sent me a message on facebook about it, I later logged in and did my own testing but didn't get his results. Switched to the WSD stuff and suddenly I'm getting his results. Put on Fighters Roll and got far better results.

yeah but adding up augments i can't see is a pain in the *** on mobile.

You picked a bad time to ask that. Lol. There's a mad debate going on. Lol
Amano is solid. But imo I'd say it's last as far as Rema weapons for sam. Rag is awesome for Zerg type situations. So I guess what do you do most is the real question. That answer will most likely give you the answer you seek.

Anyone with mythic test jinpu out yet? I'm very interested to see that.

Pretty much unless acc is needed, would go with Rag far more outweighs Amano.


It's being tested.

That was me last night.

Dojin + Utu

STR 112 + 239
DEX 101 + 125

Valorous Mask (STR +8 Acc +26 Atk +19 WSD +4)
Founder's breastplate (All +15
Founders gauntlets (STR +9 Atk +13 MAB +14)
Founders greaves (Acc +13 MAB +14)

ItemSet 352364


Originally was using Baetyl Pendant for +13 MAB along with Toro cape for +10 MAB.

WSD just from the cape increased the damage far outside of what it should be if it only applied to first hit and Multi-Attack testing showed that to be the source of the crazy spike damage.

Rua reported to me similar findings with Koki and Kaggero, not as extreme as Jinpu, which is understandable as they only get one multi-attack roll, but getting big *** spikes when using the Jinpu set.

WSD just from the cape increased the damage far outside of what it should be if it only applied to first hit and Multi-Attack testing showed that to be the source of the crazy spike damage.

Any chance this is the same as Dark rings with magic and breath counting as same augment?

Assume WSD = MAB but adds both so get twice the value?

Been drinking tonight so mind is a lil fukd

Not sure but something is happening with extra hits. The great axe WS Sturmwind already has WSD apply to all hits, along with the crit from SA, so it's not impossible for WSD to be applying to all hits or multiple times even. That would explain the crazy spikes pretty well.

atm any known way to isolate it and show 1 way or other?

at the moment i'm getting an 8 hit minimum damage around 46500 and a max of 48828. assuming the .75 anchor for 2000 is correct and ftp doesn't transfer and you used at 1000 (1750 after weapon and ear). with transfer i get around 54200 to 56983. i only counted about 115 magic attack bonus and 24 weapon skill damage and not sure what rebuffs you were using for the 99K hits. i didn't *** overwhelmed but did assume max f str

Now that 8 hits can only happen on two QA procs from a 3% item or 0.09% of the time, we were getting them every other WS or so. I don't have any TA in WS gear.


fTP transfer should be less damage not more since it's under 1.0.

And we got those numbers without malaise. Literally there was a point when I asked Rua to drop maliase and only use Idris frailty + Dia III from a RDM trust.

WSD is
6% from Ammo
4% from head
10% from back
7% from legs

The 99K's where with Frailty + Maliase though kinda rare, put on Fighters Roll and once every few WS's was 99K.

Magic Crit hit?

We turned on and off several buffs and gear and we know it's Multi-Attack causing the spikes. The point about WSD is that switching from Toro cape to WSD Cape caused an increase that was outside of the expected amounts. Jinpu has it's first hit listed as the weaker hit, meaning WSD ~should~ offer a smaller increase, yet it was giving one larger then it otherwise implied. There were two explanations, one being that the first hits fTP was far larger then listed, but that would make the minimum damage much higher then observed and the increase from Multi-Attack procs would of been less. The second thought was that it was applying WSD in multiple locations and those extra hits were adding more damage then expected. Due to the random nature of multi-attacks, the second explanation makes more sense.

Ohh and then we added wind weather at the end, just to test, and that also makes a large difference.


Wasn't wearing any +Magic Crit gear so that's extremely unlikely.

Like I said, the damage should not be this large but it is.

yeah i copy pasted the wrong ftp values. i did use 27 w s d, just typo in the post. and those are numbers without malaise. malaise would almost double the numbers.

And that's only at eight hits which we're getting on four hit Jinpu's. Eight hit jinpu's are less then 1/10th of a percent, or one out of a thousand WS's.

With just trusts I would get a random 40~50K Jinpu on Apex Raptors, that lined up pretty well with one QA proc. Fighter's Roll is just +DA not TA or QA, the consistency of 75~99K WS's with that speaks towards not relying on QA procs at all.

My Multi-Attack in Jinpu Gear is

3% QA
17% DA

Crooked 11 Fighters roll added another 24% (not sure of head proc) DA. Does Zanhasso proc on WS? That would add another layer of OaT. Still there isn't enough QA for that to be responsible for consistent 70~99K Jinpu's on Apex Jagils. We were able to kill a dozen rapidly with just two, occasionally three Jinpu's. This was when I was testing a traditional multi-step SC vs Jinpu spam, Jinpu spam easily won.

a single quad would do more than two doubles with all other variables staying the same, though.

Of course but there isn't enough QA for it to be responsible for the frequent high damage. Your only showing high damage in rare situations, when you get a QA and then some. That would result in some mediocre hits followed by a crazy high one but what we're seeing is every other WS being a stupidly strong one.

We aren't exaggerating when we mention how often those damage spikes are. I'm thinking damage in the 3 to four hit range is what we're seeing with anything higher being over 99K and truncating. When I can get Rua on we can do some video's with all our stuff out to show how frequent this is.

Now if you were to apply that WSD to all hits, the result is strangely similar to what we were witnessing.

Isn't that .5 ftp a mis translation from the JP side? It's supposed to be 100% tp is .5 of the physical dmg is applied as magical damage. And when has gobli actually been wrong about something, not counting things that were changed after initial testing. He always had very good methodology.

I do wonder if this is a side effect of the WS added effect buff. Jinpu was always strong it just didn't fare well against higher lvl targets but now it doesn't seem to be having that problem.

WSC's on various BLU spells, attack bonus on howling fist. Those are two off the top of my head. Some stuff from the 75 era that we just assumed to be true turned out not to be.


It's always been strong but we're getting numbers that are well outside of the predicted range. These numbers are so high they put every other WS in the game to shame, and conventional math only predicts 50~70% of the damage we're seeing, so there is something else happening.

Hell it's possible that Jinpu now has something like a 0.5 / 1.5 / 2.5 fTP scale that transfers to all hits, would explain a lot though there remains a few interesting points.

Are you saying there isn't an attack bonus on howilng fist? (I'm not actually sure, don't play monk). And if anything, most WSC was fine and the NA side turned out to be wrong unless you can name some specific examples.

Does Jinpu WS dmg outside of the magic portion even vary by tp? That should be easy to test, just grab something like a wind ele that won't take any wind dmg.

Question about earlier in the thread, WSD applies to all hit of sturmwind? Where's the testing on that? Was just curious since I'd never heard about it before.