Animator's Workshop: A Puppetmaster's Guide 2.0

Ok, will try that, thanks!
You solo CP on Crabs in Dho Gates? What's your CP/hr on average?

I usually go for Apex Bats in Dho Gates as they have piercing weakness, which the RNG maton can exploit. The Attack Down AoE is a bit annoying, but they still go down faster than Crabs due to naturally lower Defense and HP.

Crabs are nice targets if you've got someone to MB your self-skillchains, but I find them too tanky to chain fast enough when solo, especially as the Armor Shatterer is late in the 5-step skillchain, which means a random Scissor Guard can mess with your damage. They might give more CP per kill than bats, but killspeed matters too.

As for CP/hour, I was getting about 1m-1,2m/hr or something too, but I'm not sure how useful the comparison is. I'm still missing a ton of bonuses (Kupofried, Vana'clock, Memento, decent CP mantle etc.) and you didn't mention how much JP you had, so our bonuses would be different there as well. Not to mention unlike you I don't have a RMEA yet, so that would make a noticeable difference, too.

Apex jagils in woh also work if you can get another person, namely mber though it takes more acc to do those

I have all possible CP bonuses, a 47% cape (which I didn't use because I wanted the Ambu cape to exploit pet haste 10%) and around uhnm... 1800 JPs on PUP, maybe a bit less.

I found single bats in Ra'kaznar to be the best honestly, but they require so much acc it's a big sacrifice, I should re-check my sets.
I'm sure I can reach the necessary values (over 1350 acc iir) on the Automaton just fine, but reaching that at the same time on the Master AND keeping haste capped for both, might be a bit of a challenge for my gear.


Sure I could buy some Heyoka pieces, but honestly *** spending 20m gil just for CP, if you get what I mean.

I keep heyoka set for pet enmity, and master magic evasion. The haste and hybrid tp set is just a bonus.

I wasn't trying to claim that Heyoka set is a bad set or useless in general, just that it's a waste of gil to get it just for 300 JPs solo xD

You probably already know, but Tali'ah +1 and Foire+2/+3 pieces have fairly high Master/Pet Accuracy bonuses while often also providing Pet: Haste. You'll probably lose some Triple Attack in exchange, but they might be useful for that kind of camp.

As you said, the monsters there are too evasive to be able to hit them reliably without any sacrifices, so you'll definitely have to fall back on hybrid pieces like those.

Then again, Tali'ah Manteel +1 is awesome either way, as it provides Triple Attack+5% in addition to the Accuracy bonuses.

Yeah I was using full tali'ah +1 in Outer Ra'kaz, but it still wasn't enough. (very close to cap though).
I think I have an idea or two where I can get ~15 more acc total, that might be enough but I wonder if the loss of multiattack and storetp will hurt me too much (i.e. master not reaching necessary TP values in time to multistep SC with puppet)

Of course I was trying to keep Godhands instead of Othas, with those I would've likely been more than fine.


As for Foire+3 yes, some pieces are really nice but again that's a lot of cards farming and up to 10 mils per upgrade (if you add up +2 and +3 cost), not really what I'd call "worth it" for 300 JPs, that that point I would just buy Heyoka, which I can at least resell once I'm done with it xD

In my experience the loss of multi-attack aint worth it, specially if solo as trusts arent always keen to keep haste up and if you use a brd youll be getting ballads eventually. Granted theres cornelia now to sorta bypass the brd portion of that.

Yeah Exactely, I was using Cornelia for additional acc and Haste :)

So both wikis say Magic Mortar is Liquefaction / Fusion with no citation but the auto never tries to self skillchain with it and using ws that should chain with those elements nothing happens. Does it even have a skillchain element(s) and if so what?

Unless it was changed, that should be correct.

The Liquefaction/Fusion listed or my not seeing any skillchains?

The wiki.

Guess I can try more stuff later tonight but it refused to self skillchain when it opened with that but would when opening with the other 2 which would mean either both speedloader and inhibitor are broken with that skillchain or it has no level 1 components.

Tried following MM with combo and no go so unless that's wrong it's not Liquefaction, Reverberation, or Induration. Tried with Dragon kick too so that rules out fusion and gravitation

Looking at the Apex Camps thread,

you need 1463 acc to cap for fat bats

are you using target marker for automaton?

I don't really want to calculate your acc for your puppemaster and automaton at ~1800 jp.

but having the target number and using checkparam should help you figure out a good balance.
Target Marker is the cheapest (and most flexible) way to get automaton acc on high level targets.

methinks w/ both optic fibers, and target marker, using 1 light and 1 thunder manuever, you only need 1133 acc on automaton to cap hit rate.

at 1800 jp, I think its pretty easy to have 1300 acc on automaton iirc. I really don't remember what master acc looks like at that level without logging in.

Think 1463 was the value before the Geo/Skill nerf maybE?
Because you need something around 1350 these days to cap acc.
I was at ~93% out of 95% between 1300 and 1350.

Pet acc was overcapped, was talking about master's acc now.

oh, so what food were you using?
shiromochi +1?

If automaton overcapped, maybe you won't need automaton acc food. focus on stronger master only acc food maybe.
or move to hq food if using nq.


I'm assuming the difference of that 2% acc is enough to make skillchains less reliable ergo longer kill times?

I don't actually use full Tali'ah in master tp set.

I use a funny mix of my pet storetp hands & feet (Herc) and the capped SR legs. I usually get tp faster on master than pet. Are you using Mache earrings? or something else?

I think I was getting acc song from joachim, and keeping aggressor up from /war. my hit rate might have dropped a bit when agressor wasn't up.

I was using Shiromochi NQ, but I should've been using Sole Sushi.
My Automaton's acc was fine without food.

My issue with the SC were two:
1) Me not getting TP fast enough to close with Radiance as last step (happened very often)
2) Pet not getting TP fast enough to do Light as fourth step (happened way less often than the first point)


The SC I was using was:
Shijin > something (compression) > Vsmite (fragmentation) > something (light) > Vsmite (Radiance)

Me not getting TP on the last step I can explain with Acc not being capped, but pet not getting TP fast enough with capped acc?!
I guess pet haste wasn't capped (~24% in gear only) but I'm not sure if that's the case.
I "solved" this issue most of the time by accurately delaying my first Vsmite and only using it when I see pet TP being 500 or higher, that usually cuts it.
Could try overcapping my Pet's haste by buying one Heyoka piece,
hands probably, or legs (no other options I can use without sacrificing master's acc) but I'm not sure ~1% haste would make such a big difference.

The Master's issue on the last step can probably be solved by using Sole Sushi instead of Shiromochi, and by using Hizamaru Somen+2 for some additional Martial Arts.

I'll try again with these changes next time I get a chance.
I have to say CP on that camp was pretty good despite the slow kills. If I can make SCs more reliable it's gonna be BiS camp for sure!



I intend to change head for Hizamaru Somen +2 and either hands or legs for Heyoka, to overcap pet gear haste while keeping master's acc high enough.

Would love to take some of my tali'ah pieces off for more Multiattack (Samnuha, Herculean etc) but I feel the lack of acc on those compared to tali'ah would kill my acc.
Would be more than reasonable with Othas in place of Godhands but if I got that route then no Radiance at all.


Thanks for the tips anyway!

it would help if you post your tp set.
you said the full Tali'ah +1, but nothing else.

I see the trouble if you trying to maintain pet haste. w/out Heyoka or Foire +2/3

so next best gear for pet haste would be klouskap sash and Tali'ah feet +1. fewest pieces for pet haste, w/out using ohtas, and all good pieces for master acc as well.

w/ the 10% from the back piece, you are at 25%
a tad low but probably suitable. next piece would be thurandaut ring.

klouskap +1 is more cost prohibitive than full heyoka set.

EDIT:

Are you using Drum Magazine?

I've never tried to use it for Liquefaction, so that could very well be wrong, but I know 100% that MM (at least) was Fusion.

Hmmm maybe DK's info is wrong? Or maybe it's some really ridiculous bug that only works with certain frame/head combos lol.

There are thousands of people that can confirm that Dragon Kick is Fragmentation, lol

Well one of those things is incorrect because Fusion -> frag = light

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Weird closing or starting shouldn't matter. Wonder why it wasn't working for me last night. Well here's hoping it works tonight

Edit: Yay it works. Also yep definitely no level 1 elements or any other level 2. Kind of lame

Some trI swapped items so many times and did so many different tests... but this is the latest version of the setup I used on the fat bats in Ra'kaz.
Not easy to find the right balance between lots of accuracy without giving up too much Multiattack/STP and/or pet stats

MH = Godhands
head = Tali'ah Turban +1
body = Tali'ah Manteel +1
hands = Tali'ah Gages +1
legs = Tali'ah Seraweels +1
feet = Tali'ah Crackows +1
neck = Shulmanu Collar
ear1 = Telos Earring
ear2 = Cessance Earring
ring1 = Epona's Ring
ring2 = Niqmaddu Ring
back = VisuciusHybrid (DEX+10, Acc/att+20, Pet acc/att/racc/ratt+20, Haste+10)
waist = Hurch'lan Sash

Should probably swap the waist for Klouskap Sash.
Then I will use Sublime Sushi instead of Shiromochi, plus will swap head with Hizamaru Somen +2. These changes should grant me enough acc to reach cap on those bats, and give me slightly faster TP speed as well because of the Martial Arts bonus on the Somen.


Attachments:
Spellloader 1&2
Inhibitor 1&2
Turbo Charger 1&2
Optic Fiber 1&2
Coiler 1&2
Attuner
Target Marker

I'm factoring Ionis into the gear haste thing, but now I'm not sure anymore it also applies to Pets... Does it? I forgot.


Trusts:
Amchuchu, Cornelia, Kupofried, Koru-moru, Yoran-Oran

You are far too pet heavy.

Especially for any weapon that isn't Kenkonken, I agree. For KKK, going a little more pet focused (but with a better hybrid set than 5/5 Ambuscade) doesn't necessarily hurt too much since you have that pet OA2-3x and can do a setup with pet damage making a higher relative contribution to the total master/pet split.

But for such a strongly master-focused weapon like Godhands? Definitely gear more toward master wherever possible, focusing on puppet just to the extent you want to hit capped haste and reasonable accuracy so the pet can more or less keep up with you for TP purposes (e.g. hit 1000 tp without you having to wait ages after the master hits 1000).

My general advice is to aim for 25% pet haste from item descriptions (overflow is fine). Don't stress about getting to 26% though, fractional loss is minimal even if your particular gear does not list haste as the true x/1024 value (though as I understand it, many relatively recent pieces do state the percentage that corresponds to the true x/1024 value).

Get your pet haste through:
* 10% Viscuius's Mantle (any weapon)
* 10% Ohtas (if not using Mythic/Empy/Aeonic H2H, this should be your weapon)
* 8% Klouskap Sash (if not capping without waist)
* Then:
- (a) For non-Su3, can use Tali'ah+1 feet (7%) and be done with it.
- (b) For Su3, can use 1-3 pieces of Heyoka gear to hit cap. I kinda like to keep Moonbow belt instead of Klouskap, so sometimes I rock 3x Heyoka - head (6%), body (4%), legs (9%) along with master-focused Herculean hands/feet and the aforementioned Moonbow Belt. Heyoka legs are a standout for hybrid TP, and while you lose the multiattack of Samnuha, they're still not bad for master with very high acc and crit rate.

Pet Store TP:
Some pet store TP can be a nice bonus where you can get it without much of a loss to master, but don't stress too much about that if your pet is generally able to keep up with your TP. Viable places to fit more Pet Store TP in, add as needed to the extent your automaton isn't keeping up with your TP very well:
- Tali'ah Turban +1
- Pitre Tobe +1
- Enmerkar Earring (really the only piece I'd consider for pet ONLY stats in a hybrid build, since it's such a great pet Acc/STP piece)
- I would *not* use Pet: STP Herc gear for a hybrid set at the expense of better master stats, that's really more pet-only gear in my eyes.

I don't see how I'm too "pet heavy".
Tali'ah +1 is my best TP body regardless of pet.
I need feet for the Pet Haste.
I need Hybrid cape for the Pet Haste.
I need a Pet haste belt as well
Shulmanu Collar is actually a pretty good tradeoff when you need acc, I see pet stuff as icing on the cake given the situation.
I'm not using pet rings or earrings.

So we're basically left with the Head, Hands and Legs slots.
I already said I'm gonna swap Head for Hizamaru+2
For the other slots Tali'ah is basically the highest master acc items I have for PUP.
Sure I could Swap for Hizamaru, but they have more or less the same acc as Tali'ah, so might as well use Tali'ah?
That was my point.