Mommy I Want Plus Size Barbie

Are you guys seriously discussing Barbie issues? LOL

I think that looks *** horrifying.


That's sort of what I was trying to point out, that because the correlation is so strong, the earlier point that weight doesn't directly cause diabetes is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. What you're describing is someone eating less and losing weight which obviously means they're going to spike their insulin a lot less, so you're still not isolating the two variables. Without some very specific testing (or a complete understanding of the underlying mechanic) you can't tell if it was the obesity itself causing the diabetes or the overconsumption. Some believe the latter would be the primary cause since it means you're working the insulin receptors more, but it's also possible there are hormonal changes etc resulting from extra adipose tissue that also leads to diabetes, but again, figuring that out is almost a purely scientific pursuit.


You're correct that hypothyroidism does not cause significant weight gain, certainly not enough to cause obesity just by itself- but it does cause weight gain regardless of what you think, considering how not everyone keeps a hawkeye on their BMR- not like that'd even be possible, people only know an estimate of it and they won't magically know that they have hypothyroidism, especially if it's sub-clinical. You're trying to have it both ways, you assume that because they have hypothyroidism their "natural instinct" with eating will kick in, notice the reduced BMR, and they will just naturally eat less, but at the same time you're trying to push the point that we're supposed to use our conscious mind to suppress our body from doing something it naturally does, which in this case it wouldn't, because you're already in a routine. Chances are you'd just go along eating whatever you thought was maintenance calories (even being a health nut wouldn't save you since they calculated meals based on what they should be eating without the disease).

Regardless you're avoiding the larger point he's making that your attitude makes no sense when considering that there are people who have conditions that can cause significant weight gain (a better choice would probably be Cushing's, there are other things that can affect it such as enteric blood supply etc), unless you think your willpower argument is a legitimate one, which you probably think it is. It's true you can overcome just about any condition causing weight gain with the right treatment plus adjustments to lifestyle, but I think the problem is that there's lots of overweight people that don't have a clue how to lose weight (Anybody who is unfamiliar with the fitness world will be shocked when they realize just how few calories you burn from an hour-long jog vs how fast you can eat it back), then they run into people like you. Funny thing is that I actually get the general thrust of what you're saying, but I also think attitudes like yours cause the exact problem you are complaining about.

you're the one claiming something outside of convention and hundreds of.years of medical research. I'm going by long established medical standards.

your source and your claim are baseless, a product of large people looking for a way to cope with their poor eating habits and lack of self control. people who want there to be an answer that doesn't require them to make any lifestyle changes or accept any blame for their own unhappiness... it's Barbie's fault I'm huge and unattractive, not the pint of iced cream i eat every night...

Nope that's just you and others trying to shame me into compliance, won't work as I honestly don't care what you or anyone else thinks about me.

I know I am correct in this, weight is 100% under our own control. It is willpower plain and simple, people just have a deep fear of taking responsibility and thus make hundred's of excuse's. Every argument to date has been about efficiency of energy storage / usage and not about the biological fact that fat (the kind we're discussing) is just stored carbohydrates. Nobody in the world has yet presented a valid explanation of how excess fat gets on someone that isn't first orally ingested.

You want to know a 100% foolproof, proven method of shedding any and all excess weight? Take the fat person and lock them up in a cell with only half a loaf of bread and water every day. Six months later that excess weight has vanished guaranteed.

Is it healthy or ethical? Nobody said it was. Is it pleasant? Not remotely. Is it effective? Most definitely. We've got hundreds of years of demonstrations in ancient prisons across the globe. That singular fact instantly dispels all excuse's, attempts at word twisting and shaming tactics. "We don't like what you say because it hurts our feelings or makes us feel uncomfortable" has never been an acceptable reason to not state the truth.

I agree. I understand that the exact mechanism linking excess weight to DM is not fully understood, but I was under the impression that the current research is in favor of the latter theory (excess adipose tissue secreting hormones contributing to insulin resistance), because I never came across the first theory before. Of course, both theories are not mutually exclusive.

Of note though is that the type of food, rather than the amount/caloric content influences the insulin spike more. But then again, the diabetics who lose weight and improve their glycemic control probably adopt a healthier diet (among other variables), too.

I like reading your posts Saevel because even if you manage to make a single decent point you follow it up with so much ridiculous BS that I can just sit here and laugh at you all day lol.

glycimic index has a large impact on what your body does with it over the long term. eating lots of high index foods will train your body in starvation mode, it will start storing everything it can because everything you put in your mouth is instant energy and gone in minutes.

there are long term effects outside of diabetes to a high sugar diet.

Medical standards? Says who? I want a citation from the AMA especially if we're talking national medical standards. Or at the very least a citation from a state medical board. Common provide a citation.

I'm not a doctor but I play one on the internet.

Weight gain, just like weight loss, can be due to metabolic disease (that has nothing to do with excess oral intake), and Cushing's was an excellent example. In such cases, you will treat the underlying cause, you won't preach the patient about willpower. It's as simple as that.

I wonder how you view psychiatric patients with mood disorders.

there are links and exerpts on the first few pages of this thread, you sound like a young earth creationist.

You have not provided any sources via a national medical association in this thread, let alone one backing up these so called "long established medical standards."

It's a bit strange isn't it? What I mean is on one hand he utilizes biochemistry as a basis for his arguments but then on the other hand completely demonstrates zero understanding of it by making diametrically opposed conclusions like "Fat People are, only, fat because of dopamine addictions and that skinny People are skinny, only, because they have cognitive control of their primal urges".

Completely disregarding metabolic diseases.

What I found comically intriguing is the commentary that concludes that all liberal women are behemoths. Whereas the majority of conservative women hail from the Midwest and the South and the majority of women from those regions aren't exactly bean poles or average weight. Might have something to do with the butter and beer culture.

The irony of life is he will marry a skinny conservative chick impregnate her, she'll balloon into a gravid behemoth and never regain her original figure.

Of course they'll take this hyperbolic ride down speculation lane as a blatant attack to shame them versus an observation of a glaring fact that people face when they find out what they idealize in their head is hardly ever grounded in reality.

Long story short with regard to question you posed: Probably will take the Tom Cruise/Scientologist approach.

In @Savael defense metabolic disease or thyroid disorders are not representing the majority of overweight individuals. The vast majority are due to portion control, bad diet, lack of exercise etc...

Just out of curiosity, you mentioned that you've provided a credible source somewhere in this thread. I've skimmed through looking for it but I don't see the post you're referring to - can you provide a link?

FTR, I haven't disagreed with this.


You're not getting what I'm saying. You are only factually correct on the level that pretty much all overweight people (including those with metabolic disorders) can compensate with it using lifestyle changes, but for some it's about as "easy" as someone coming out of a coma learning how to walk again, or someone needing to quit smoking. When those kinds of people need to recover positive reinforcement has almost always been more effective, not everything is like picking up women where negging is going to work.

What I'm saying is that your facts are not all incorrect (your pathways are gross misunderstandings though), it's that your general attitude is not helpful in treating the obesity epidemic.


I'm sure there's a couple people muttering that to themselves as they read the posts here, but pretty much everything being talked about falls under pretty general biochemistry/fitness knowledge etc. I'm sure there are plenty of people around here that majored in the sciences or even just interested in fitness and health in general so I feel perfectly comfortable being a bit more technical in the discussion.

If people start talking Pharmacology and Epidemiology then you can start jumping down their throats.

Does Barbie make girls want to be thin? The effect of experimental exposure to images of dolls on the body image of 5- to 8-year-old girls.

Much appreciated.

Not arguing against it either, all I am doing is pointing out that Savael's "black or white" conclusion is not always the case. Nor am I making an argument for fat acceptance. Nor am I ignorant enough to use a jean company's sizing chart as a standard metric when all jean companies have differing sizing scales. ex Lucky Brand vs American Apparel vs Levi's vs Guess etc.

I just found it hilarious that someone would make such a definitive "black or white" conclusion then close their statement with referencing the party they perceive as holding the opposing point of view being guilty of making "False Dichotomies". Which are "black or white" statements/conclusions.

Well I mean the same holds true for diet. People have this misconception that it's as easy as "eat less" or "watch what you eat."

I hold my MPH and I can assure you if it was that simple public health agencies and physicians would not have a problem with over-weight patients. It's a variety of socio-psychological factors involved ranging from cultural eating habits, different standards of beauty, education, and sometimes medical conditions.

No one wants to be fat, no one wants to die from cardiovascular disease but it isn't that simple. I mean literally we are seeing departments of public health services now having nutrition workshops because many people just don't know how to eat right.

The nutritional pyramid was all a big lie! Everything I was taught in the nineties was a sham!

but wait, isn't there some old colloquialism about how easy it is to teach an old dog new tricks?

It wasn't a lie lol just badly implemented. The "serving size" was not defined in many diagrams.

The workshops I've seen still utilize the food pyramid, however, they define the serving sizes in person now. They are also better at establishing differences between e.g. romaine lettuce or spinach vs. iceberg lettuce. They've pretty much become a cliffs notes version of college nutrition, which is what I think many families need.

I was just joking around. I'm one of those freaks that ends up going "O ***, I forgot to eat today" so I've never had any problems. I would most likely be in a world of hurt by now had I not been married 7 years ago, because she does a good job of balancing things for the kids, & I end up well off just by hanging in their proximity most of the time. before her though, it was just lots of booze, meat, & potatoes, so I'm sure I would've ended up with a massive stroke or heart attack @ 40 or 50.

so don't listen to me.

:D

AltaMed helps obese children control weight, avoid health problems

Here's an example I'm sure other states have similar programs that target minorities. But this kinda shows the extent state/municipal agencies are going to battle obesity.

what I gathered from that article:

It would be nice to be of hispanic decent, just in case I ever had to play survivorman.

at least they recognize there is an issue and are trying to solve it instead of changing their toys so they don't feel bad about being obese.