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 Shiva.Viciousss
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2013-10-03 12:57:07
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The well is going to dry up next week for the VA, and their screams are going to be a lot louder than the national parks.
 Shiva.Viciousss
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2013-10-03 13:03:03
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Bahamut.Kara said: »

Yeah, I'm a little concerned about this though that is in that article
Quote:
“The speaker has always been clear that a default would be disastrous for our economy,” Mr. Steel said. “He’s also been clear that a ‘clean’ debt hike cannot pass the House. That’s why the president and Senate Democrats should drop their ‘no negotiations’ stance, and work with us on a plan to raise the debt limit in a responsible way, with spending cuts and reforms to get our economy moving again and create jobs.”

When he says that, he means it won't pass on partisan lines. It could be passed bipartisanly, but that would probably kill Boehner's speakership, opening the gov't and raising the debt ceiling with full Democrat support and a minority of the Republicans. He is desperate for a lifeline but he is in the wrong profession for that.
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2013-10-03 13:13:42
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Shiva.Viciousss said: »
Bahamut.Kara said: »

Yeah, I'm a little concerned about this though that is in that article
Quote:
“The speaker has always been clear that a default would be disastrous for our economy,” Mr. Steel said. “He’s also been clear that a ‘clean’ debt hike cannot pass the House. That’s why the president and Senate Democrats should drop their ‘no negotiations’ stance, and work with us on a plan to raise the debt limit in a responsible way, with spending cuts and reforms to get our economy moving again and create jobs.”

When he says that, he means it won't pass on partisan lines. It could be passed bipartisanly, but that would probably kill Boehner's speakership, opening the gov't and raising the debt ceiling with full Democrat support and a minority of the Republicans. He is desperate for a lifeline but he is in the wrong profession for that.
Why are the democrats in the Senate unwilling to negotiate then?

So far, their only terms are: Give us a clean budget bill, and we will think about talking to you about things you want.

Would you feel confident in negotiating with somebody if that is their terms?
 Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2013-10-03 13:16:39
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Shiva.Viciousss said: »
Bahamut.Kara said: »

Yeah, I'm a little concerned about this though that is in that article
Quote:
“The speaker has always been clear that a default would be disastrous for our economy,” Mr. Steel said. “He’s also been clear that a ‘clean’ debt hike cannot pass the House. That’s why the president and Senate Democrats should drop their ‘no negotiations’ stance, and work with us on a plan to raise the debt limit in a responsible way, with spending cuts and reforms to get our economy moving again and create jobs.”

When he says that, he means it won't pass on partisan lines. It could be passed bipartisanly, but that would probably kill Boehner's speakership, opening the gov't and raising the debt ceiling with full Democrat support and a minority of the Republicans. He is desperate for a lifeline but he is in the wrong profession for that.

Yeah, that's not what I'm reading it as.
Quote:
It's debt ceiling ping-pong. Earlier today Senate majority leader Harry Reid said he would allow no strings to be attached to legislation to raise the debt limit. "We will act on a clean debt ceiling," he said.

Now a spokesman to speaker John Boehner says the House cannot pass a clean debt ceiling bill:

"House Speaker John Boehner has always said that the United States will not default on its debt. He also always says that there aren't votes in the House to pass a 'clean' debt limit bill. That's why we need a bill with cuts and reforms," said the unnamed spokesman, quoted by Reuters.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/03/government-shutdown-third-day-live

More like this
Siren.Mosin said: »
more *** waving.
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 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-10-03 13:19:12
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Obamacare passed already. There is no reason to attach their terms to a CR. There is no reason to discuss anything when the starting point of the negotiation is fundamentally flawed.
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 Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2013-10-03 13:21:37
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Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Obamacare passed already. There is no reason to attach their terms to a CR. There is no reason to discuss anything when the starting point of the negotiation is fundamentally flawed.

Yes.

I'm more worried about the debt ceiling being taken hostage, since the conversation has moved in that direction.
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 Shiva.Nikolce
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2013-10-03 13:23:09
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Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Obamacare passed already. There is no reason to attach their terms to a CR. There is no reason to discuss anything when the starting point of the negotiation is fundamentally flawed.

NO!!! Don't listen to Pleebo!!! Burn it all down!!! FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT


who are we talking too?
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 Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2013-10-03 13:31:21
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Quote:
Reports of shots fired near the US Capitol building. Reuters reports:

US Capitol police have reports of shots fired at 2nd St and Constitution Avenue NE, several injured.
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 Shiva.Nikolce
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2013-10-03 13:32:15
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 Siren.Flavin
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By Siren.Flavin 2013-10-03 13:36:21
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Shiva.Viciousss said: »
Bahamut.Kara said: »
Yeah, I'm a little concerned about this though that is in that article
Quote:
“The speaker has always been clear that a default would be disastrous for our economy,” Mr. Steel said. “He’s also been clear that a ‘clean’ debt hike cannot pass the House. That’s why the president and Senate Democrats should drop their ‘no negotiations’ stance, and work with us on a plan to raise the debt limit in a responsible way, with spending cuts and reforms to get our economy moving again and create jobs.”
When he says that, he means it won't pass on partisan lines. It could be passed bipartisanly, but that would probably kill Boehner's speakership, opening the gov't and raising the debt ceiling with full Democrat support and a minority of the Republicans. He is desperate for a lifeline but he is in the wrong profession for that.
Why are the democrats in the Senate unwilling to negotiate then? So far, their only terms are: Give us a clean budget bill, and we will think about talking to you about things you want. Would you feel confident in negotiating with somebody if that is their terms?
The negotiation has already been completed... there is no more need for negotiation... the number had already been agreed upon and then it wasn't allowed to be brought to the table without all the other ***...

There is nothing more to negotiate... They're just trying to add extra ***in there and using this as a means to leverage the situation which has and will continue to fail...
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-10-03 13:44:57
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Bahamut.Kara said: »
Quote:
Reports of shots fired near the US Capitol building. Reuters reports:

US Capitol police have reports of shots fired at 2nd St and Constitution Avenue NE, several injured.

Now we're onto something.

If we start seeing angry mobs, and I absolutely don't agree with violence, this is going to get real for the legislators very quickly. And if, god forbid, there is any gun violence, it will give a spotlight to the absolutely dysfunctional way our gun laws are setup and vilify these people who thump on the 2nd amendment.

Sadly, I think it's going to have to get a little colonial before the politicians remember that our founding fathers advocated walking up the steps of the capital and telling your representative to do their job.
 Shiva.Nikolce
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2013-10-03 13:46:05
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How many times do I have to ask you guys to...
Please stop making constructive solutions to this problem!!!
NOTHING IS OVER UNTIL WE DECIDE IT IS!!!
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 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-10-03 13:48:37
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Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Obamacare passed already. There is no reason to attach their terms to a CR. There is no reason to discuss anything when the starting point of the negotiation is fundamentally flawed.

I can't believe that being unable to even attempt to construct a budget, they have the audacity to start tacking demands onto a continuing resolution. They know the current budget needs to be chucked out, but they wouldn't even come to the table to work on a budget because they were too busy trying to repeal a law for the 45th time and keep gays from getting married.

A continuing resolution is all we've had since the republican controlled house and senate passed GWB's budget in what, 2005? If you can't even be bothered to work on a real budget, you don't get to negotiate the band-aid.
 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2013-10-03 13:48:50
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Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Obamacare passed already. There is no reason to attach their terms to a CR. There is no reason to discuss anything when the starting point of the negotiation is fundamentally flawed.

Right no need to discuss how Obama single handedly decided he wasn't gonna follow the employer mandate part of the law till after the midterms, provide over 2500 exemptions from the law to individuals and corporations, or provide congress their own special subsidy because the law was so poorly written.


Nothing to see here, give us everything we want or I'll nudge the stock market into a tumble.
 Shiva.Viciousss
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2013-10-03 13:49:07
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You don't get to shut down the gov't and risk defaulting on the debt just to get what you want. They had all summer to negotiate, but they intentionally targeted the absolute last deadline in order to force compromise. Its the same tactic the Tea Party has been using since 2010 and its dead. It is an unacceptable approach and it is failing and will continue to fail with no chance of a success.
 Shiva.Viciousss
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2013-10-03 13:50:34
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Nothing to see here, give us everything we want or I'll nudge the stock market into a tumble.
-Boehner

Pass.
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-10-03 13:54:22
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Obamacare passed already. There is no reason to attach their terms to a CR. There is no reason to discuss anything when the starting point of the negotiation is fundamentally flawed.

Right no need to discuss how Obama single handedly decided he wasn't gonna follow the employer mandate part of the law till after the midterms, provide over 2500 exemptions from the law to individuals and corporations, or provide congress their own special subsidy because the law was so poorly written.


Nothing to see here, give us everything we want or I'll nudge the stock market into a tumble.

You don't seem to understand that he is entitled to make those kinds of decisions and under no obligation to forestall implementation in the philosophy of "did you bring enough gum for the whole class?". It's not how it works. The difference here is that Obama is playing by the rules and powers afforded to him, and the tea party stomping their feet so that nobody can hear the music they don't like.

The difference is that, unlike Obama delaying the employer mandate (which doesn't have the impact you tinfoil hat guys are pretending it does) THERE ARE REAL CONSEQUENCES FOR THE ENTIRE WORLD. You can't rewind a default.
 Shiva.Viciousss
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2013-10-03 14:00:50
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Now Cantor is out there waving his *** around, living in a fantasyland. There is no pressure on the Senate, they passed the budget and the majority of the House supports it. Waiting on Boehner. Those "negotiations" will never take place as long as he keeps the gov't closed.
 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2013-10-03 14:10:24
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Odin.Jassik said: »
Intense willful blindness.

He isn't entitled to make those changes. He is not above the laws passed by congress.

Quote:
Reports of shots fired near the US Capitol building. Reuters reports:

US Capitol police have reports of shots fired at 2nd St and Constitution Avenue NE, several injured.

I'm taking bets on how long before the tea party is erroneously blamed.
 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-10-03 14:14:09
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It was Aelius
Lakshmi.Aelius said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
I wonder how long this shutdown will last.

Any bets going on?

Until the next "mass shooting".
HOW DID HE KNOW
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 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2013-10-03 14:15:40
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Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
It was Aelius
Lakshmi.Aelius said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
I wonder how long this shutdown will last.

Any bets going on?

Until the next "mass shooting".
HOW DID HE KNOW

Maybe it was HIM!

News flash: FFXI MODERATOR tired of the petulant bickering on his website seeks horrific end to the source of conflict....
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2013-10-03 14:20:52
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Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
It was Aelius
Lakshmi.Aelius said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
I wonder how long this shutdown will last.

Any bets going on?

Until the next "mass shooting".
HOW DID HE KNOW
That is actually scary.

Quick Aelius, what is the Powerball numbers for the next drawing!
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 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-10-03 14:24:40
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Intense willful blindness.

He isn't entitled to make those changes. He is not above the laws passed by congress.

Quote:
Reports of shots fired near the US Capitol building. Reuters reports:

US Capitol police have reports of shots fired at 2nd St and Constitution Avenue NE, several injured.

I'm taking bets on how long before the tea party is erroneously blamed.

It's a bit of a read, but I'm confident you wouldn't even if it was 4 words long.

The executive is required to faithfully implement laws without unreasonable delay. What constitutes an unreasonable delay has dozens of precedents.

Quote:
In fact, applicable judicial precedent places such timing adjustments well within the Executive Branch's lawful discretion. To be sure, the federal Administrative Procedure Act authorizes federal courts to compel agencies to initiate statutorily required actions that have been "unreasonably delayed." But courts have found delays to be unreasonable only in rare cases where, unlike this one, inaction had lasted for several years, and the recalcitrant agency could offer neither a persuasive excuse nor a credible end to its dithering.

Quote:
Nor is the one-year delay of the employer mandate an affront to the Constitution, as Professor Michael McConnell and Congressional Republicans insist. The relevant text requires that the President "take care that the laws be faithfully executed." Scholars on both left and right concur that this broadly-worded phrasing indicates that the President is to exercise judgment, and handle his enforcement duties with fidelity to all laws, including, indeed, the Constitution. As McConnell himself notes, both Republican and Democratic Justice Departments have consistently opined that the clause authorizes a president even to decline enforcement of a statute altogether, if in good faith he determines it to be in violation of the Constitution. But, McConnell contends, a president cannot "refuse to enforce a statute he opposes for policy reasons." While surely correct, that contention is beside the point.

I'm so willfully blind, I hope you can forgive me.
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By Caitsith.Zahrah 2013-10-03 14:27:59
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Well, I guess the denizens of P&R should never convene in one place IRL. He's always watching us!!!

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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2013-10-03 14:31:48
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Caitsith.Zahrah said: »
Well, I guess the denizens of P&R should never convene in one place IRL. He's always watching us!!!

At least this got us out of the "CA minimum wage" fight going on over there.
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 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2013-10-03 14:37:53
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I'm always up for forgiveness Jassik. But make no mistake, you are indeed blind.

A catastrophe or disaster which deconstructs the infrastructure of the program is really what this article is geared to, not:

'oh hey we've had 3 years, a limitless supply of money, and all the (overwhelming) talent of the US government to prepare this thing but its just not ready yet and the midterms are coming, so we'll push it out for a year'

The delay is an abuse of power and was only done for political gain. The rest of the bill wasn't ready either as news outlets are clearly reporting, how come we didn't delay them too?
 Shiva.Nikolce
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2013-10-03 14:39:38
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 Caitsith.Zahrah
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By Caitsith.Zahrah 2013-10-03 14:44:58
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So, are these reports about the shooter being a woman with a toddler in her car bogus?

Ugh! I think I'm done with news for today.
 Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2013-10-03 14:47:37
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Caitsith.Zahrah said: »
So, are these reports about the shooter being a woman with a toddler in her car bogus?

Ugh! I think I'm done with news for today.
Yeah i just read that. Not sure if true or not.

Edit: it's not been completely confirmed
Quote:
The US capitol police chief, Kim Dine, holds a news conference to describe what happened, confirming details of what was earlier reported. He said:

A vehicle in the vicinity of the White House apparently tried to pass a barricade.

Shots were potentially fired. [Officers] pursued the vehicle. The vehicle struck one of our vehicles... and ultimately ended up at 2nd and Maryland Avenue NE, where it crashed into one of our barricades.

We have no information that this is related to terrorism or is anything other than an isolated incident.

Dine says he believes that there was a child in the car. But he does not know the condition of the driver.

He confirms that an office was injured, but not by gunfire:

One of our officers was struck in his staff car. He appears to be conscious and breathing. As far as we know, no officer was shot.
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-10-03 14:47:38
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
I'm always up for forgiveness Jassik. But make no mistake, you are indeed blind.

A catastrophe or disaster which deconstructs the infrastructure of the program is really what this article is geared to, not:

'oh hey we've had 3 years, a limitless supply of money, and all the (overwhelming) talent of the US government to prepare this thing but its just not ready yet and the midterms are coming, so we'll push it out for a year'

The delay is an abuse of power and was only done for political gain. The rest of the bill wasn't ready either as news outlets are clearly reporting, how come we didn't delay them too?

Tinfoil hat, yet again. It's absolutely irrelevant whether the timing seems convenient. The article isn't geared toward anything, it's a factual analysis of situations that have/could delay implementation.

The fact remains, it IS within his authority to delay the law based on the reasons they gave and judicial precedent.

Whether I like it or agree with it means nothing, facts don't care about your opinion.
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