CA Min Wage Increase Signed Into Law

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CA Min Wage Increase Signed Into Law
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 Siren.Flavin
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By Siren.Flavin 2013-09-26 13:12:06
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Garuda.Chanti said: »
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »
My point, and perhaps slanted because I lived all my life in CA, min wage was fine all these years. You can live in a variety of places easily because CA provides so much housing assistance and county/municipal aid....
This is government subsidizing low wage paying businesses. So are well over 1/2 the food stamps given out. The money to do this comes from YOUR taxes. By raising the minimum wage CA increases its tax revenue and reduces its, and the federal government's, expenditures to keep the working poor afloat. Looks like a win / win / win to me.
This feels like half a statement... not only that it doesn't really make sense...
 Siren.Flavin
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By Siren.Flavin 2013-09-26 13:14:17
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Garuda.Chanti said: »
Looks like a win / win / win to me.
I'll take that bait. You have no idea what you're talking about. If minimum wage is so great, how come it's not 50/hr?
This also feels like a question where I have to ask myself... For serious?
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-09-26 13:17:12
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Garuda.Chanti said: »
Looks like a win / win / win to me.

I'll take that bait. You have no idea what you're talking about.

If minimum wage is so great, how come it's not 50/hr?


you're a moron. you have to make a point if you're "taking the bait". and his post is strictly an interpretation, it's not baiting anything.
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 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2013-09-26 13:36:22
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Odin.Jassik said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Garuda.Chanti said: »
Looks like a win / win / win to me.

I'll take that bait. You have no idea what you're talking about.

If minimum wage is so great, how come it's not 50/hr?


you're a moron. you have to make a point if you're "taking the bait". and his post is strictly an interpretation, it's not baiting anything.
Yawn....

He's suggesting that his interpretation of the proposed law has no negatives "win/win/win". I'm suggesting that's incorrect, but since I'm a conservative and I opened my mouth I guess it's time to personally attack me by calling me a moron (thanks). All I'm asking is if raising the minimum wage has no negatives, why not raise it to 50/hr so everyone's part of the 1%?
 Bahamut.Baconwrap
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2013-09-26 13:38:31
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Siren.Flavin said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Garuda.Chanti said: »
Looks like a win / win / win to me.
I'll take that bait. You have no idea what you're talking about. If minimum wage is so great, how come it's not 50/hr?
This also feels like a question where I have to ask myself... For serious?

BIg problem everyone including Gov Brown is skimming are 2- and 4-year college graduates.he is closing the gap of entry-level/no skill labor pay to entry level associate's/bachelor's degrees.

An AS/AA or BS/BA doesn't pay that much now a days. Employers are demanding Masters degrees. Corporate America pretty much requires a MFA or MBA for any executive position. Hospitals want BSNs not ASNs. They want nurse practioners with PhDs not MSN anymore. Many school districts want MS or MA in a particular field so they teach AP classes.

Americans who pay for formal education are having to pay more and spend MORE time in college. While making the the same income. It's not fair.

E.G. entry level bs psychology in Los Angeles27to30k entry level
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 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2013-09-26 14:01:06
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Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »
Siren.Flavin said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Garuda.Chanti said: »
Looks like a win / win / win to me.
I'll take that bait. You have no idea what you're talking about. If minimum wage is so great, how come it's not 50/hr?
This also feels like a question where I have to ask myself... For serious?

BIg problem everyone including Gov Brown is skimming are 2- and 4-year college graduates.he is closing the gap of entry-level/no skill labor pay to entry level associate's/bachelor's degrees.

An AS/AA or BS/BA doesn't pay that much now a days. Employers are demanding Masters degrees. Corporate America pretty much requires a MFA or MBA for any executive position. Hospitals want BSNs not ASNs. They want nurse practioners with PhDs not MSN anymore. Many school districts want MS or MA in a particular field so they teach AP classes.

Americans who pay for formal education are having to pay more and spend MORE time in college. While making the the same income. It's not fair.

This is simple supply and demand. More college graduates, less jobs to go around among them. Usually in this situation workers and recent grads demand smart policies from their government which facilitate a a robust and expanding economy, today they sit around and demand the government force their bosses to pay them more.

Not really sure why. They either don't believe an expanding economic pie is possible (why not), they don't want to work for it, or they are just ignorant of how things work.
 Bahamut.Baconwrap
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2013-09-26 14:07:36
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Correct and then reduce to downsizing or cutting hours to make their quarterly payroll budget...

Perfect example are hospital urgent cares. Why should I schedule a physician, an RN, a NP, a receptionist ON STAFF site to increased wages, when I can have nurse practioner for much less and one nurse, oh and the min wage receptionist.
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 Siren.Flavin
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By Siren.Flavin 2013-09-26 14:22:53
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Garuda.Chanti said: »
Looks like a win / win / win to me.
I'll take that bait. You have no idea what you're talking about. If minimum wage is so great, how come it's not 50/hr?
you're a moron. you have to make a point if you're "taking the bait". and his post is strictly an interpretation, it's not baiting anything.
Yawn.... He's suggesting that his interpretation of the proposed law has no negatives "win/win/win". I'm suggesting that's incorrect, but since I'm a conservative and I opened my mouth I guess it's time to personally attack me by calling me a moron (thanks). All I'm asking is if raising the minimum wage has no negatives, why not raise it to 50/hr so everyone's part of the 1%?
$50/hour would not put everyone in the 1%...
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 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2013-09-26 14:24:09
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Siren.Flavin said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Garuda.Chanti said: »
Looks like a win / win / win to me.
I'll take that bait. You have no idea what you're talking about. If minimum wage is so great, how come it's not 50/hr?
you're a moron. you have to make a point if you're "taking the bait". and his post is strictly an interpretation, it's not baiting anything.
Yawn.... He's suggesting that his interpretation of the proposed law has no negatives "win/win/win". I'm suggesting that's incorrect, but since I'm a conservative and I opened my mouth I guess it's time to personally attack me by calling me a moron (thanks). All I'm asking is if raising the minimum wage has no negatives, why not raise it to 50/hr so everyone's part of the 1%?
$50/hour would not put everyone in the 1%...
1000/hr then.....
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-09-26 14:26:44
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Garuda.Chanti said: »
Looks like a win / win / win to me.

I'll take that bait. You have no idea what you're talking about.

If minimum wage is so great, how come it's not 50/hr?


you're a moron. you have to make a point if you're "taking the bait". and his post is strictly an interpretation, it's not baiting anything.
Yawn....

He's suggesting that his interpretation of the proposed law has no negatives "win/win/win". I'm suggesting that's incorrect, but since I'm a conservative and I opened my mouth I guess it's time to personally attack me by calling me a moron (thanks). All I'm asking is if raising the minimum wage has no negatives, why not raise it to 50/hr so everyone's part of the 1%?

I called you a moron because you boiled what he said (whether you agree or not) down to promoting socialism. You were the first person to bring partisan rhetoric into an issue focused discussion.

Edit: quick math based on 2011 IRS records showing the average household income of the top 1% of american earners is greater than $400,000. That averages out to about 170/hr as the absolute bottom of the 1% range. Obviously 10/hr isn't anywhere near that level and is scarily close to the average individual income nationwide.
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 Caitsith.Zahrah
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By Caitsith.Zahrah 2013-09-26 14:31:58
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Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »
BIg problem everyone including Gov Brown is skimming are 2- and 4-year college graduates.he is closing the gap of entry-level/no skill labor pay to entry level associate's/bachelor's degrees.

An AS/AA or BS/BA doesn't pay that much now a days. Employers are demanding Masters degrees. Corporate America pretty much requires a MFA or MBA for any executive position. Hospitals want BSNs not ASNs. They want nurse practioners with PhDs not MSN anymore. Many school districts want MS or MA in a particular field so they teach AP classes.

Americans who pay for formal education are having to pay more and spend MORE time in college. While making the the same income. It's not fair.

I'm assuming the "83" is indicative of your age.

Retrospectively speaking, didn't most of us already see this competitive shift taking place a decade ago during undergrads? Even then, pre-professional, professional, tech and engineering were sought after to skirt all the liberal arts and generic business majors that were already obviously over-saturated.

Good school districts were already funneling in MAs and MSs at the high school level who were also moonlighting at community colleges (they were at my HS, at least).
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-09-26 14:33:02
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Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »
Correct and then reduce to downsizing or cutting hours to make their quarterly payroll budget...

Perfect example are hospital urgent cares. Why should I schedule a physician, an RN, a NP, a receptionist ON STAFF site to increased wages, when I can have nurse practioner for much less and one nurse, oh and the min wage receptionist.

That is a microchasm of the underlying problem. There are far too many people vying for far too few of these white collar jobs while more than 3 million blue collar jobs go unfilled. I'd bet that urgent care has several unfilled janitorial and maintenance positions. I am one of the people who paid a HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE amount of money for a business degree that is virtually meaningless. I made almost double the amount of money doing commercial fishing in Alaska 4 months a year that I did in my best year in management. I even considered going back to fleet maintenance because the benefits were comparable and the wage was higher.
 Bahamut.Baconwrap
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2013-09-26 14:35:41
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Well it's kinda how a long time ago an ASN was sufficient and a BSN with experience could become a NP w/o a graduate degree.

BS in business used to get you a jr executive position entry level.

Some fields havn't changed like ICS or Chemist.
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-09-26 14:37:15
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Caitsith.Zahrah said: »
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »
BIg problem everyone including Gov Brown is skimming are 2- and 4-year college graduates.he is closing the gap of entry-level/no skill labor pay to entry level associate's/bachelor's degrees.

An AS/AA or BS/BA doesn't pay that much now a days. Employers are demanding Masters degrees. Corporate America pretty much requires a MFA or MBA for any executive position. Hospitals want BSNs not ASNs. They want nurse practioners with PhDs not MSN anymore. Many school districts want MS or MA in a particular field so they teach AP classes.

Americans who pay for formal education are having to pay more and spend MORE time in college. While making the the same income. It's not fair.

I'm assuming the "83" is indicative of your age.

Retrospectively speaking, didn't most of us already see this competitive shift taking place a decade ago during undergrads? Even then, pre-professional, professional, tech and engineering were sought after to skirt all the liberal arts and generic business majors that were already obviously over-saturated.

Good school districts were already funneling in MAs and MSs at the high school level who were also moonlighting at community colleges (they were at my HS, at least).

Even 10 years ago when I was in college they were pushing hard to get people to enroll in vocational and skills based programs. I actually did double time and got an associates in automotive and heavy equipment repair with several certifications while completing my bachelors. The year I graduated they had more people graduate from liberal arts than the entire rest of the university, a university with VERY strong engineering and business programs.
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 Siren.Mosin
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By Siren.Mosin 2013-09-26 14:40:03
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 Phoenix.Amandarius
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2013-09-26 15:11:12
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Siren.Mosin said: »

"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a
permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship."
"The average age of the worlds greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:

1. From bondage to spiritual faith;
2. From spiritual faith to great courage;
3. From courage to liberty;
4. From liberty to abundance;
5. From abundance to complacency;
6. From complacency to apathy;
7. From apathy to dependence;
8. From dependence back into bondage "

end quote from 1787
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 Caitsith.Zahrah
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By Caitsith.Zahrah 2013-09-26 16:29:10
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Siren.Mosin said: »

2/2

Odin.Jassik said: »
Even 10 years ago when I was in college they were pushing hard to get people to enroll in vocational and skills based programs. I actually did double time and got an associates in automotive and heavy equipment repair with several certifications while completing my bachelors. The year I graduated they had more people graduate from liberal arts than the entire rest of the university, a university with VERY strong engineering and business programs.

I've been wondering what experience is really offered to the kiddos today, whether it be clerical, reception, retail, serving, paid internships, etc.

Kudos! The only extra mile I went outside of the bachelors was getting notary cert when I was working clerical during college.

I should probably get my LEED cert (Mosin is probably the only one who knows what I'm talking about) if I choose to stick with my job. Still waffling on that one, unfortunately.
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 Asura.Lolserj
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By Asura.Lolserj 2013-09-26 16:43:25
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Interning makes me sad, I'm making the same amount a person working at McDonald's in California will be making when the wage increases to $10/hr :(
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 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-09-26 16:43:37
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Caitsith.Zahrah said: »
Siren.Mosin said: »

2/2

Odin.Jassik said: »
Even 10 years ago when I was in college they were pushing hard to get people to enroll in vocational and skills based programs. I actually did double time and got an associates in automotive and heavy equipment repair with several certifications while completing my bachelors. The year I graduated they had more people graduate from liberal arts than the entire rest of the university, a university with VERY strong engineering and business programs.

I've been wondering what experience is really offered to the kiddos today, whether it be clerical, reception, retail, serving, paid internships, etc.

Kudos! The only extra mile I went outside of the bachelors was getting notary cert when I was working clerical during college.

I should probably get my LEED cert (Mosin is probably the only one who knows what I'm talking about) if I choose to stick with my job. Still waffling on that one, unfortunately.

Well I went into business with the expectation of getting involved in amateur racing, the technical aspect just seemed to fit right in, but I got a serious wakeup call when I graduated and had the prospects of making 70K+/year in the shop and 30-40 in the office.
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 Bahamut.Baconwrap
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2013-09-26 20:16:45
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Odin.Jassik said: »
That is a microchasm of the underlying problem. There are far too many people vying for far too few of these white collar jobs while more than 3 million blue collar jobs go unfilled.

That number for blue collar work is nationwide, I'm assuming, correct?

Also white collar work particularly in health care is highly unfilled. There is a huge shortage of X-Ray Techs, RT's,RN's,NP's, CRNA's and PA's nationwide which it's free to obtain an ASN or AS in one of those respective fields is in numerous states through the junior college system.

There didn't USED to be a shortage of RN's in the country, but then hospitals were forced to reduce the patient to RN ratio. Consequently hospitals and clinics had to hire additional RN's and NP's which put a huge burden on their budget. I think its 3 patients per RN, where as at one point they could oversee up to 6 patients.

But that's just one industry white collar work has particular industries where their is dire need for additional graduates, health care being one of them. Increasing the minimum wage for the receptionists and cafeteria staff, well puts burdens on a health-care system's budget. So don't complain when you go to ER and they take 1hour to see you with a broken limb. :)

(Also I wouldn't call what an RN or NP does white collar work per-se, a physician is actually the paper pusher and the RN or NP does most of the work.)
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 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-09-26 20:42:23
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Yes that is nationwide as of 2011 DoL statistics (actual statistic was like 2.93M), I don't know if it would have gone up or down since then, but it increased from 2008 to 2011.
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2013-09-26 21:06:31
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That kinda goes back to my point where min wage probably shouldn't be state level but County level. Every state and county is going to have different costs of living etc
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-09-26 21:12:32
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True, the cost of living in rural Northern California is far less than the cost of living in LA or SD, yet they will share the same minimum wage. I really think that the concept of a minimum wage is outdated. There needs to be a transitional plan to grow the blue collar workforce to match the jobs available and funnel people away from throw away degrees. A path toward allowing the workforce to set it's own worth on a level playing field with employers. Push wages to a point of equilibrium with their market worth and allow the HARD working poor the same opportunity to name their price that their parents and grandparents had. So that the safety net for the people who don't have aspirations is much weaker but those who want to work hard have a clear view of the sky instead of the bottom of a boot.
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2013-09-26 21:18:12
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The cities of San Francisco and Santa Monica are two good examples of how they retained higher minimum wage than the rest of the state for several years and it didn't really impact the state economy dramatically.

My only concern about doing higher minimum wages per county in a state like CA, which does baby the lower-income bracket. Is the upcoming Edison plan where areas that have higher average temperatures will recieve a discount on their electricity lol. Coincidentally, many of those high temperature counties, are what we coinsider rural or having a significantly lower cost of living than SD, LA or SF.
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By Sylph.Mirvana 2013-09-26 21:22:12
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I haven't had a minimum wage job in a long time, and therefore haven't paid much attention to it since, but didn't min.wage increases normally go up every 2 years or so? I mean, it just feels like this didn't really change much, yet it's being heralded as the messiah/antichrist by the opposing extremes.
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-09-26 21:33:51
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Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »
The cities of San Francisco and Santa Monica are two good examples of how they retained higher minimum wage than the rest of the state for several years and it didn't really impact the state economy dramatically.

My only concern about doing higher minimum wages per county in a state like CA, which does baby the lower-income bracket. Is the upcoming Edison plan where areas that have higher average temperatures will recieve a discount on their electricity lol. Coincidentally, many of those high temperature counties, are what we coinsider rural or having a significantly lower cost of living than SD, LA or SF.


The thing I don't like about this situation is that they aren't generating any wealth. I more long term solution would be to encourage companies to offer performance based wage increases (obviously with some level of oversight) and begin to dial back public assistance programs. Encourage workers to aspire to a better wage and encourage companies to reward good people with a better wage. Take the funds removed from public assistance and set up a public trust for needed fields. If a person is willing to seek education in a field that is short of workers, they would have at least part of their education subsidized. Put the dollars to work instead of throwing them at people who don't make good choices with it.

CA also needs to seriously revisit it's direct democracy policies. The public, in general, isn't able to make sound legislative decisions. They voted to keep funding in social programs and education while voting against the tax revenue needed to fund them.

Sylph.Mirvana said: »
I haven't had a minimum wage job in a long time, and therefore haven't paid much attention to it since, but didn't min.wage increases normally go up every 2 years or so? I mean, it just feels like this didn't really change much, yet it's being heralded as the messiah/antichrist by the opposing extremes.

They aren't a linear increase or a constant interval and are almost never tied to cost of living or inflation. History of minimum wages by year There is a column on this graph showing normalized dollars. You can see that the current minimum wage is the second lowest in normalized dollars in the history of the minimum wage standard, the only lower year was 1955 which was corrected to almost a dollar more the following year. The purchasing power of minimum wage peaked in 1968 and has fallen pretty steadily since then.
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By Drjones 2013-09-26 21:46:34
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Odin.Jassik said: »
CA also needs to seriously revisit it's direct democracy policies. The public, in general, isn't able to make sound legislative decisions. They voted to keep funding in social programs and education while voting against the tax revenue needed to fund them.
To be fair the politicians don't seem to be able to do any better.
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2013-09-26 21:55:47
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Odin.Jassik said: »
The thing I don't like about this situation is that they aren't generating any wealth.

Edison will be profiting, they will be hiking up the rates for people in the beach cities and lowering the rates for people in the valleys/deserts.

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/state&id=9243600

EDIT: So this in conjunction with the 10/hr increase isn't really fair to middle class residents.
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-09-26 22:46:14
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Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
The thing I don't like about this situation is that they aren't generating any wealth.

Edison will be profiting, they will be hiking up the rates for people in the beach cities and lowering the rates for people in the valleys/deserts.

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/state&id=9243600

EDIT: So this in conjunction with the 10/hr increase isn't really fair to middle class residents.

That's just shifting money around, and shifting wealth rarely has a positive universal effect. The goal would be to allow companies to increase revenue, but since 70% of the american economy is consumer purchase, taking money from the middle and lower class only slows overall growth and actually hurts the companies.

Drjones said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
CA also needs to seriously revisit it's direct democracy policies. The public, in general, isn't able to make sound legislative decisions. They voted to keep funding in social programs and education while voting against the tax revenue needed to fund them.
To be fair the politicians don't seem to be able to do any better.

This kind of schoolhouse bickering is a fairly new thing. Historically representative democracies have a far longer shelf life than direct democracies.
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By Bahamut.Kara 2013-09-27 03:23:16
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Siren.Mosin said: »

My own rant and response
Caitsith.Zahrah said: »

Companies that have less than 5 employees$500,000 in sales don't have to pay minimum wage according to federal law. None of the statistics include people who are self-employeed either. But how do independent contractors work? You have to withdraw your own taxes and basically act as a self-employeed individual (since the company(ies) you work for have very limited obligations to you) but does anyone know how they are counted in the statistics?

Edit: nevermind I found the answer. Independent contractors are subject to the self-employment tax which means they are probably filed under self-employeed for statistical purposes by the DoL.
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