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Washington state gets rid of "sexist" language
 Siren.Flavin
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Posts: 4155
By Siren.Flavin 2013-07-11 15:56:45
There is nothing Technical or complicated about rape... It's defined by consent... Whether you have a rape fantasy or not if you engage in a consentual act it is not rape even if the same actions are performed... Consent... to clarify further... Even if the guy/girl has rape fantasies and likes to be dominated or beaten... unless said person consents to those acts with their partner it is rape... even if they like something when you're forced to do it with someone you don't want to... well hopefully you get the idea by now... You're talking about the legal definition of Rape. I'm not. I'm talking about Rape fantasies, and touching on when it stops or starts being rape. If a women consents to sex, but then changes her mind midway through, but is then forced into continuing, is it rape or consent? There's your answer. So if she initially says no, but then during the act starts to enjoy it and continues, is it still rape? Yes... How could you even ask that? If she says no you shouldn't of ever started...
Siren.Flavin
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Posts: 4155
By Siren.Flavin 2013-07-11 15:57:15
There is nothing Technical or complicated about rape... It's defined by consent... Whether you have a rape fantasy or not if you engage in a consentual act it is not rape even if the same actions are performed... Consent... to clarify further... Even if the guy/girl has rape fantasies and likes to be dominated or beaten... unless said person consents to those acts with their partner it is rape... even if they like something when you're forced to do it with someone you don't want to... well hopefully you get the idea by now... You're talking about the legal definition of Rape. I'm not. I'm talking about Rape fantasies, and touching on when it stops or starts being rape. If a women consents to sex, but then changes her mind midway through, but is then forced into continuing, is it rape or consent? There's your answer. So if she initially says no, but then during the act starts to enjoy it and continues, is it still rape? She did not consent, so it's still rape. So if a man says no to start with, but ends up enjoying it, why isn't it also still considered rape? It is still rape...
By Blazed1979 2013-07-11 15:58:34
There is nothing Technical or complicated about rape... It's defined by consent... Whether you have a rape fantasy or not if you engage in a consentual act it is not rape even if the same actions are performed... Consent... to clarify further... Even if the guy/girl has rape fantasies and likes to be dominated or beaten... unless said person consents to those acts with their partner it is rape... even if they like something when you're forced to do it with someone you don't want to... well hopefully you get the idea by now... You're talking about the legal definition of Rape. I'm not. I'm talking about Rape fantasies, and touching on when it stops or starts being rape. If a women consents to sex, but then changes her mind midway through, but is then forced into continuing, is it rape or consent? There's your answer. Kara answered it for me... If someone says to stop you stop... no means no man whether you've started or not... Just because you've started already doesn't mean you've like signed a contract guaranteeing that you finish lol...
Personally I think you'd be nuts to engage in that kind of activity with anyone that you don't complicitly trust because I'm sure your worried about someone crying rape after they've already started up or finished... It's definitely a possibility that they could but like in a lot of cases with rape it turns into a he siad she said...
By Blazed1979 2013-07-11 16:00:47
There is nothing Technical or complicated about rape... It's defined by consent... Whether you have a rape fantasy or not if you engage in a consentual act it is not rape even if the same actions are performed... Consent... to clarify further... Even if the guy/girl has rape fantasies and likes to be dominated or beaten... unless said person consents to those acts with their partner it is rape... even if they like something when you're forced to do it with someone you don't want to... well hopefully you get the idea by now... You're talking about the legal definition of Rape. I'm not. I'm talking about Rape fantasies, and touching on when it stops or starts being rape. If a women consents to sex, but then changes her mind midway through, but is then forced into continuing, is it rape or consent? There's your answer. So if she initially says no, but then during the act starts to enjoy it and continues, is it still rape?
Yes... How could you even ask that? If she says no you shouldn't of ever started...
Thank you for answering. You will see why I'm asking soon enough.
Is it still rape if she doesn't press charges and doesn't consider it rape?
Siren.Flavin
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Posts: 4155
By Siren.Flavin 2013-07-11 16:03:04
I don't really see where you get that it's socially acceptable for a girl to punch a guy in the face... It's where it falls on the spectrum. Use your head. Girls punching guys garners significantly less societal outrage than when a guy hits a girl. Do you disagree? So now your not arguing that it is acceptable just that it's more acceptable? Make up your mind!
It is though... people definitely look down on men more when they physically strike a woman than a woman a man... It probably has a lot to do with the fact that, in general, the woman walks away from it worse off... look at that video he posted of the girl on the bus... not sure if she even hit him or not but the dude went and uppercutted her and tossed her off the bus... hell a lot of people said they were glad he did what he did lol...
But lets be clear... I don't think you'll find many if anyone to say that it is socially acceptable for a woman to just strike a man...
Siren.Flavin
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By Siren.Flavin 2013-07-11 16:09:31
There is nothing Technical or complicated about rape... It's defined by consent... Whether you have a rape fantasy or not if you engage in a consentual act it is not rape even if the same actions are performed... Consent... to clarify further... Even if the guy/girl has rape fantasies and likes to be dominated or beaten... unless said person consents to those acts with their partner it is rape... even if they like something when you're forced to do it with someone you don't want to... well hopefully you get the idea by now... You're talking about the legal definition of Rape. I'm not. I'm talking about Rape fantasies, and touching on when it stops or starts being rape. If a women consents to sex, but then changes her mind midway through, but is then forced into continuing, is it rape or consent? There's your answer. So if she initially says no, but then during the act starts to enjoy it and continues, is it still rape? Yes... How could you even ask that? If she says no you shouldn't of ever started... Thank you for answering. You will see why I'm asking soon enough. Is it still rape if she doesn't press charges and doesn't consider it rape? Yeah, I know you had some reason for asking the questions you did thinking in your head that you would back me into a corner then present your one case in order to try to prove your point lol...
Yes, it is still rape... You forced someone into a sexual act and they were not willing... whether they ended up enjoying it or not... if they don't want to press charges I don't see how it could have gotten to the point where it became a legal issue if they don't want to press charges...
By Blazed1979 2013-07-11 16:10:21
Flavin you, and a few others, are under the subjective assumption and have stated Rape is not complicated at all, and is purely based on "consent".
Several studies have shown that is anything but simple.
http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/study-reveals-female-rape-victims-enjoyed-the-experience/
http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2011/03/28/more-women-have-rape-fantasies-than-previously-thought/
http://www.steadyhealth.com/articles/Women_and_Sexuality__As_Many_as_50___of_Women_Have_Rape_Fantasies__But_Fantasy_and_Reality_Don_t_Mix_a1416.html
http://www.care2.com/causes/rape-ranked-as-third-most-popular-sexual-fantasy-for-women.html
http://womanfirst.net/womens-rape-fantasies-how-common-what-do-they-mean/
I'm not in any way advocating rape, or forced sexual intercourse in any way. Violence of any kind is wrong, unless it is in self defense or used a means to eliminate further violence. To protect yourself from violence, through the use of violence is acceptable providing you are not the perp. I've said this repeatedly, and I expect women to follow the same standards.
 Alexander.Carrelo
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By Alexander.Carrelo 2013-07-11 16:14:21
Is it still rape if she doesn't press charges and doesn't consider it rape? It most certainly can be. Many rape victims are either so ashamed or so frightened that they never come forward.
In the second scenario ("doesn't consider it rape"), the partner is simply lucky that not asking for explicit consent didn't result in a rape. That is, of course, unless the victim "doesn't consider it rape" due to being made to feel responsible in some way for the event. Some people actually do believe all that "asking for it" bs and allow this false guilt to silence them. It's still rape.
By Blazed1979 2013-07-11 16:15:46
There is nothing Technical or complicated about rape... It's defined by consent... Whether you have a rape fantasy or not if you engage in a consentual act it is not rape even if the same actions are performed... Consent... to clarify further... Even if the guy/girl has rape fantasies and likes to be dominated or beaten... unless said person consents to those acts with their partner it is rape... even if they like something when you're forced to do it with someone you don't want to... well hopefully you get the idea by now... You're talking about the legal definition of Rape. I'm not. I'm talking about Rape fantasies, and touching on when it stops or starts being rape. If a women consents to sex, but then changes her mind midway through, but is then forced into continuing, is it rape or consent? There's your answer. So if she initially says no, but then during the act starts to enjoy it and continues, is it still rape? Yes... How could you even ask that? If she says no you shouldn't of ever started... Thank you for answering. You will see why I'm asking soon enough. Is it still rape if she doesn't press charges and doesn't consider it rape? Yeah, I know you had some reason for asking the questions you did thinking in your head that you would back me into a corner then present your one case in order to try to prove your point lol...
Yes, it is still rape... You forced someone into a sexual act and they were not willing... whether they ended up enjoying it or not... if they don't want to press charges I don't see how it could have gotten to the point where it became a legal issue if they don't want to press charges...
If the rape victim was willing, it isn't rape I thought?
She says no at the start, but yes later and ends up saying no it wasn't rape, is still rape?
Only the victim knows if it was rape or not. Being raped is the victim's perception of the act. It's what I've been trying to get through to you for the past 3 pages.
There is nothing Technical or complicated about rape... It's defined by consent... Whether you have a rape fantasy or not if you engage in a consentual act it is not rape even if the same actions are performed... Consent... to clarify further... Even if the guy/girl has rape fantasies and likes to be dominated or beaten... unless said person consents to those acts with their partner it is rape... even if they like something when you're forced to do it with someone you don't want to... well hopefully you get the idea by now... You're talking about the legal definition of Rape. I'm not. I'm talking about Rape fantasies, and touching on when it stops or starts being rape. If a women consents to sex, but then changes her mind midway through, but is then forced into continuing, is it rape or consent? There's your answer. So if she initially says no, but then during the act starts to enjoy it and continues, is it still rape? Yes... How could you even ask that? If she says no you shouldn't of ever started... Thank you for answering. You will see why I'm asking soon enough. Is it still rape if she doesn't press charges and doesn't consider it rape? Yeah, I know you had some reason for asking the questions you did thinking in your head that you would back me into a corner then present your one case in order to try to prove your point lol...
Yes, it is still rape... You forced someone into a sexual act and they were not willing... whether they ended up enjoying it or not... if they don't want to press charges I don't see how it could have gotten to the point where it became a legal issue if they don't want to press charges...
So what you're really saying is if you're going to rape a woman make sure she enjoys it, cuz then its not rape?
By Blazed1979 2013-07-11 16:17:44
Alexander.Carrelo said: »Is it still rape if she doesn't press charges and doesn't consider it rape? It most certainly can be. Many rape victims are either so ashamed or so frightened that they never come forward.
In the second scenario ("doesn't consider it rape"), the partner is simply lucky that not asking for explicit consent didn't result in a rape. That is, of course, unless the victim "doesn't consider it rape" due to being made to feel responsible in some way for the event. Some people actually do believe all that "asking for it" bs and allow this false guilt to silence them. It's still rape.
100% agree and granted in the scenarios you mentioned.
But what if, and it has happened, the women end up with the guy who raped them, out of free choice?
Keep a printed copy of one of these in your wallet with the condoms. Safest best.
http://www.loveologyuniversity.com/FCKeditor/editor/filemanager/browser/default/connectors/aspx/FckUploadedImages/Image/The%20University/cms/Sexual-Consent-Form.pdf
Fenrir.Schutz
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Posts: 3122
By Fenrir.Schutz 2013-07-11 16:21:46
Did you read this article all the way through? I am not sure about the intention of the author, but the concluding paragraphs kind of contradict the point I think you are trying to make, perhaps? :/ I suspect the intention was to warn against un-careful citing of internet sources, I believe (or perhaps it was a last-moment editorial change.)
[+]
Siren.Flavin
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Posts: 4155
By Siren.Flavin 2013-07-11 16:23:50
There is nothing Technical or complicated about rape... It's defined by consent... Whether you have a rape fantasy or not if you engage in a consentual act it is not rape even if the same actions are performed... Consent... to clarify further... Even if the guy/girl has rape fantasies and likes to be dominated or beaten... unless said person consents to those acts with their partner it is rape... even if they like something when you're forced to do it with someone you don't want to... well hopefully you get the idea by now... You're talking about the legal definition of Rape. I'm not. I'm talking about Rape fantasies, and touching on when it stops or starts being rape. If a women consents to sex, but then changes her mind midway through, but is then forced into continuing, is it rape or consent? There's your answer. Kara answered it for me... If someone says to stop you stop... no means no man whether you've started or not... Just because you've started already doesn't mean you've like signed a contract guaranteeing that you finish lol... Personally I think you'd be nuts to engage in that kind of activity with anyone that you don't complicitly trust because I'm sure your worried about someone crying rape after they've already started up or finished... It's definitely a possibility that they could but like in a lot of cases with rape it turns into a he siad she said... What's your point with this one? I'll admit I didn't read the whole thing but it looks like she got jailed for falsely crying rape?
There are people who do things like this and it's *** up but I still don't see what your point is...
By Blazed1979 2013-07-11 16:30:41
Did you read this article all the way through? I am not sure about the intention of the author, but the concluding paragraphs kind of contradict the point I think you are trying to make, perhaps? :/ I suspect the intention was to warn against un-careful citing of internet sources, I believe (or perhaps it was a last-moment editorial change.)
Simply that rape isn't a simple matter.
Alexander.Carrelo
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Posts: 3706
By Alexander.Carrelo 2013-07-11 16:31:09
Alexander.Carrelo said: »Is it still rape if she doesn't press charges and doesn't consider it rape? It most certainly can be. Many rape victims are either so ashamed or so frightened that they never come forward.
In the second scenario ("doesn't consider it rape"), the partner is simply lucky that not asking for explicit consent didn't result in a rape. That is, of course, unless the victim "doesn't consider it rape" due to being made to feel responsible in some way for the event. Some people actually do believe all that "asking for it" bs and allow this false guilt to silence them. It's still rape.
100% agree and granted in the scenarios you mentioned.
But what if, and it has happened, the women end up with the guy who raped them, out of free choice? Chances are that's a coercive, abusive relationship in which one partner preys upon the (likely non-coincidental) instability of the other.
lmao that's great. I'd be pretty surprised if someone actually managed to get laid after pulling that thing out though lol
Siren.Flavin
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Posts: 4155
By Siren.Flavin 2013-07-11 16:32:47
quote='Blazed1979' pid=2407327] There is nothing Technical or complicated about rape... It's defined by consent... Whether you have a rape fantasy or not if you engage in a consentual act it is not rape even if the same actions are performed... Consent... to clarify further... Even if the guy/girl has rape fantasies and likes to be dominated or beaten... unless said person consents to those acts with their partner it is rape... even if they like something when you're forced to do it with someone you don't want to... well hopefully you get the idea by now... You're talking about the legal definition of Rape. I'm not. I'm talking about Rape fantasies, and touching on when it stops or starts being rape. If a women consents to sex, but then changes her mind midway through, but is then forced into continuing, is it rape or consent? There's your answer. So if she initially says no, but then during the act starts to enjoy it and continues, is it still rape? Yes... How could you even ask that? If she says no you shouldn't of ever started... Thank you for answering. You will see why I'm asking soon enough. Is it still rape if she doesn't press charges and doesn't consider it rape? Yeah, I know you had some reason for asking the questions you did thinking in your head that you would back me into a corner then present your one case in order to try to prove your point lol... Yes, it is still rape... You forced someone into a sexual act and they were not willing... whether they ended up enjoying it or not... if they don't want to press charges I don't see how it could have gotten to the point where it became a legal issue if they don't want to press charges... If the rape victim was willing, it isn't rape I thought? She says no at the start, but yes later and ends up saying no it wasn't rape, is still rape? Only the victim knows if it was rape or not. Being raped is the victim's perception of the act. It's what I've been trying to get through to you for the past 3 pages. There is nothing Technical or complicated about rape... It's defined by consent... Whether you have a rape fantasy or not if you engage in a consentual act it is not rape even if the same actions are performed... Consent... to clarify further... Even if the guy/girl has rape fantasies and likes to be dominated or beaten... unless said person consents to those acts with their partner it is rape... even if they like something when you're forced to do it with someone you don't want to... well hopefully you get the idea by now... You're talking about the legal definition of Rape. I'm not. I'm talking about Rape fantasies, and touching on when it stops or starts being rape. If a women consents to sex, but then changes her mind midway through, but is then forced into continuing, is it rape or consent? There's your answer. So if she initially says no, but then during the act starts to enjoy it and continues, is it still rape? Yes... How could you even ask that? If she says no you shouldn't of ever started... Thank you for answering. You will see why I'm asking soon enough. Is it still rape if she doesn't press charges and doesn't consider it rape? Yeah, I know you had some reason for asking the questions you did thinking in your head that you would back me into a corner then present your one case in order to try to prove your point lol... Yes, it is still rape... You forced someone into a sexual act and they were not willing... whether they ended up enjoying it or not... if they don't want to press charges I don't see how it could have gotten to the point where it became a legal issue if they don't want to press charges... So what you're really saying is if you're going to rape a woman make sure she enjoys it, cuz then its not rape?[/quote] Listen to me ok... if someone says no... it is rape... It should never have gotten to the point where someone can enjoy it... Do you not understand this? You can try to twist my words around to attempt to make a point but it won't work out like you think it will...
I have a friend that has rape fantasies... she literally wants to be dominated and abused by her partner... Surprisingly enough we even brought up the topic if she were to be raped for real... she admitted that there is a possibility she could get off on the sex but it still be someone violating her.. It is not something she would want whether she enjoyed the sex or not...
Edit: If someone ends up enjoying it it does not erase the fact that it is rape...
I mean c'mon blazed... I started off with saying it was still in fact rape... all I was saying after that is if it comes down to the weird outcome you describe where she ends up wanting it doesn't change what it is but it might change what the person might do after...
 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-07-11 16:37:12
So what you're really saying is if you're going to rape a woman make sure she enjoys it, cuz then its not rape? You have no idea what you are talking about if you believe any kind of enjoyment is even possible in said situation.
Siren.Flavin
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By Siren.Flavin 2013-07-11 16:39:26
Did you read this article all the way through? I am not sure about the intention of the author, but the concluding paragraphs kind of contradict the point I think you are trying to make, perhaps? :/ I suspect the intention was to warn against un-careful citing of internet sources, I believe (or perhaps it was a last-moment editorial change.) Simply that rape isn't a simple matter. It is... If someone says no then you keep your *** or your pussy locked up in your pants and move on... I don't get how you think it makes it complicated if you decide to rape em anyways and they like it... yeah some people are in to getting beat up or restrained or acting out a certain scenario... but again... if there is no consent it's rape...
Fenrir.Schutz
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By Fenrir.Schutz 2013-07-11 16:40:19
Did you read this article all the way through? I am not sure about the intention of the author, but the concluding paragraphs kind of contradict the point I think you are trying to make, perhaps? :/ I suspect the intention was to warn against un-careful citing of internet sources, I believe (or perhaps it was a last-moment editorial change.)
Simply that rape isn't a simple matter.
Just in absence of the supposed statistic from a "study [that] reveals female rape victims enjoyed the experience" the article is left only with statistics on the prevalence of rape-fantasy.
Not to bemoan the subject or possible discussion of it, but as with all other myriad threads here that have traversed the same topic, it will eventually boil down to the distinction between "rape-fantasy" and "rape-reality" no? :/
[+]
By Blazed1979 2013-07-11 16:44:35
quote='Blazed1979' pid=2407327] There is nothing Technical or complicated about rape... It's defined by consent... Whether you have a rape fantasy or not if you engage in a consentual act it is not rape even if the same actions are performed... Consent... to clarify further... Even if the guy/girl has rape fantasies and likes to be dominated or beaten... unless said person consents to those acts with their partner it is rape... even if they like something when you're forced to do it with someone you don't want to... well hopefully you get the idea by now... You're talking about the legal definition of Rape. I'm not. I'm talking about Rape fantasies, and touching on when it stops or starts being rape. If a women consents to sex, but then changes her mind midway through, but is then forced into continuing, is it rape or consent? There's your answer. So if she initially says no, but then during the act starts to enjoy it and continues, is it still rape? Yes... How could you even ask that? If she says no you shouldn't of ever started... Thank you for answering. You will see why I'm asking soon enough. Is it still rape if she doesn't press charges and doesn't consider it rape? Yeah, I know you had some reason for asking the questions you did thinking in your head that you would back me into a corner then present your one case in order to try to prove your point lol... Yes, it is still rape... You forced someone into a sexual act and they were not willing... whether they ended up enjoying it or not... if they don't want to press charges I don't see how it could have gotten to the point where it became a legal issue if they don't want to press charges... If the rape victim was willing, it isn't rape I thought? She says no at the start, but yes later and ends up saying no it wasn't rape, is still rape? Only the victim knows if it was rape or not. Being raped is the victim's perception of the act. It's what I've been trying to get through to you for the past 3 pages. There is nothing Technical or complicated about rape... It's defined by consent... Whether you have a rape fantasy or not if you engage in a consentual act it is not rape even if the same actions are performed... Consent... to clarify further... Even if the guy/girl has rape fantasies and likes to be dominated or beaten... unless said person consents to those acts with their partner it is rape... even if they like something when you're forced to do it with someone you don't want to... well hopefully you get the idea by now... You're talking about the legal definition of Rape. I'm not. I'm talking about Rape fantasies, and touching on when it stops or starts being rape. If a women consents to sex, but then changes her mind midway through, but is then forced into continuing, is it rape or consent? There's your answer. So if she initially says no, but then during the act starts to enjoy it and continues, is it still rape? Yes... How could you even ask that? If she says no you shouldn't of ever started... Thank you for answering. You will see why I'm asking soon enough. Is it still rape if she doesn't press charges and doesn't consider it rape? Yeah, I know you had some reason for asking the questions you did thinking in your head that you would back me into a corner then present your one case in order to try to prove your point lol... Yes, it is still rape... You forced someone into a sexual act and they were not willing... whether they ended up enjoying it or not... if they don't want to press charges I don't see how it could have gotten to the point where it became a legal issue if they don't want to press charges... So what you're really saying is if you're going to rape a woman make sure she enjoys it, cuz then its not rape? Listen to me ok... if someone says no... it is rape... It should never have gotten to the point where someone can enjoy it... Do you not understand this? You can try to twist my words around to attempt to make a point but it won't work out like you think it will...
I have a friend that has rape fantasies... she literally wants to be dominated and abused by her partner... Surprisingly enough we even brought up the topic if she were to be raped for real... she admitted that there is a possibility she could get off on the sex but it still be someone violating her.. It is not something she would want whether she enjoyed the sex or not...
Edit: If someone ends up enjoying it it does not erase the fact that it is rape...
I mean c'mon blazed... I started off with saying it was still in fact rape... all I was saying after that is if it comes down to the weird outcome you describe where she ends up wanting it doesn't change what it is but it might change what the person might do after...[/quote]
[/spoiler]
Dude I understand your point. And I'm not disagreeing. I'm speculating, discussing, and believe it or not also trying to further my understanding of "rape".
Lets try using a different word other than rape, lets use the words "consensual sex".
I think that its complex because sex isn't an event that occurs in 1 second, (unless you're Sehachan).
Its a process, with several opportunities to say No and yes.
The Article of the woman who claimed rape, long after the act had actually finished, is an example of how complicated "consensual sex" is.
She consented to having sex with 3 men. Seemed fun at a the time. But then felt dirty and changed her consent to "no".
By Blazed1979 2013-07-11 16:50:48
Did you read this article all the way through? I am not sure about the intention of the author, but the concluding paragraphs kind of contradict the point I think you are trying to make, perhaps? :/ I suspect the intention was to warn against un-careful citing of internet sources, I believe (or perhaps it was a last-moment editorial change.)
Simply that rape isn't a simple matter.
Just in absence of the supposed statistic from a "study [that] reveals female rape victims enjoyed the experience" the article is left only with statistics on the prevalence of rape-fantasy.
Not to bemoan the subject or possible discussion of it, but as with all other myriad threads here that have traversed the same topic, it will eventually boil down to the distinction between "rape-fantasy" and "rape-reality" no? :/
Possibly.
Argument: You don't need to know something intimately to want it.
After having experienced it, attained it, your opinion and desire for it might change.
One could wish for rape, but after having been raped, change their mind. It might be after the event takes place too. Not necessarily during, where a safe word could be deployed to stop the act.
So proposal: Sex can turn into rape, and rape can turn into consensual sex?
For sex to be considered rape, the victim must announce their lack of consent before or during the act only. Rejection after the event has occurred cannot be considered rape?
Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-07-11 16:52:10
I think that its complex because sex isn't an event that occurs in 1 second, (unless you're Sehachan) Restraining myself from insulting you, honestly. Change your attitude.
You have no idea what goes through the mind of a rape victim, the body does not react the way you think it does, if you're emotional status rejects it, so does your body. There is no pleasure, there is no feeling at all, it's being completely violated. Do you know why many victims don't go to the authorities asap? It's not because they're stupid, but because they are shocked and can't even talk. A psychologist can explain you if you want to know the processes that the person goes through. But please, do stop making assumptions.
[+]
By Blazed1979 2013-07-11 16:57:01
I think that its complex because sex isn't an event that occurs in 1 second, (unless you're Sehachan) Restraining myself from insulting you, honestly. Change your attitude.
You have no idea what goes through the mind of a rape victim, the body does not react the way you think it does, if you're emotional status rejects it, so does your body. There is no pleasure, there is no feeling at all, it's being completely violated. Do you know why many victims don't go to the authorities asap? It's not because they're stupid, but because they are shocked and can't even talk. A psychologist can explain you if you want to know the processes that the person goes through. But please, do stop making assumptions.
I see your point. And also agree. Seha I think the entire disagreement between me and you is that you think I'm trying to justify rape. I'm not.
Also, I might be approaching the subject from too much of a male standpoint and opinion of sex. Your last post has made that clear to me. We don't experience sex the same way women do.
edit: but I have been saying for the last 3 pages that its complicated lol. and did originally start this entire rape debate by saying rape means different things to different parties.
 Cerberus.Eugene
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Posts: 6999
By Cerberus.Eugene 2013-07-11 17:23:43
This whole thread has been about male guilt. Get over it.
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By Phoenix.Melpomenae 2013-07-12 01:50:53
This whole thread has been about male guilt. Get over it.
Wow, this was such a useful contribution. All problems are solved! Move on, everybody.
 Bahamut.Kara
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Posts: 3544
By Bahamut.Kara 2013-07-12 03:40:54
Rape fantasies =/= rape
Men have rape and control fantasies, does this mean they are rapists? No.
Rape is not about sex but about power.
As Shultz said you should read the whole article
http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/study-reveals-female-rape-victims-enjoyed-the-experience/
Quote: So proposal: Sex can turn into rape, and rape can turn into consensual sex?
Yes, sex can turn into rape.
No, rape cannot turn into consensual sex. Just because someone orgasms does not mean the rape all of a sudden becomes consensual.
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Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-07-12 05:19:33
Quote: Men have rape and control fantasies, does this mean they are rapists? No.
Incorrect, according to feminists all men are rapists. A man looking at a women is raping her in his mind and is therefor committing rape and should be castrated. Of course if he's an attractive man, then he should instead meet her outside her place so she can exercise her "girl power" and be "sex positive" and "liberated".
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Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-07-12 05:28:13
There is nothing Technical or complicated about rape... It's defined by consent... Whether you have a rape fantasy or not if you engage in a consentual act it is not rape even if the same actions are performed... Consent... to clarify further... Even if the guy/girl has rape fantasies and likes to be dominated or beaten... unless said person consents to those acts with their partner it is rape... even if they like something when you're forced to do it with someone you don't want to... well hopefully you get the idea by now... You're talking about the legal definition of Rape. I'm not. I'm talking about Rape fantasies, and touching on when it stops or starts being rape. If a women consents to sex, but then changes her mind midway through, but is then forced into continuing, is it rape or consent? There's your answer. Kara answered it for me... If someone says to stop you stop... no means no man whether you've started or not... Just because you've started already doesn't mean you've like signed a contract guaranteeing that you finish lol...
Personally I think you'd be nuts to engage in that kind of activity with anyone that you don't complicitly trust because I'm sure your worried about someone crying rape after they've already started up or finished... It's definitely a possibility that they could but like in a lot of cases with rape it turns into a he siad she said...
How can you expect someone to act on an uncommunicated desire? Especially as by today's legal precedents a women can retract consent, after explicitly giving it, in min-coitus, without needing to tell the man she has retracted consent. Once consent is retracted the man is then "raping her" without even being aware of it.
IE
Girl (pre-coitus): "Baby bang my brains out, f*ck me hard"
Man: Ok honey, <initiates penetration>
20~30 minutes later
Man: That was great baby
Girl: <says nothing>
Next day:
Girl: he raped me.
That will get you thrown in jail, your reputation ruined and permanent place on a sex offenders registry that will prevent you from getting any high paying job.
You can have a video tape of her screaming about how much she enjoys it, and it wouldn't matter. Under current rules of evidence the tape wouldn't even be admissible in court. Your only defense is your word that she gave you consent. She merely needs to say "He was so aggressive that I was afraid to tell him to stop" and play the female privilege card.
And if your in the US Military, she doesn't even need to do that.
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By Blazed1979 2013-07-12 06:49:20
There is nothing Technical or complicated about rape... It's defined by consent... Whether you have a rape fantasy or not if you engage in a consentual act it is not rape even if the same actions are performed... Consent... to clarify further... Even if the guy/girl has rape fantasies and likes to be dominated or beaten... unless said person consents to those acts with their partner it is rape... even if they like something when you're forced to do it with someone you don't want to... well hopefully you get the idea by now... You're talking about the legal definition of Rape. I'm not. I'm talking about Rape fantasies, and touching on when it stops or starts being rape. If a women consents to sex, but then changes her mind midway through, but is then forced into continuing, is it rape or consent? There's your answer. Kara answered it for me... If someone says to stop you stop... no means no man whether you've started or not... Just because you've started already doesn't mean you've like signed a contract guaranteeing that you finish lol...
Personally I think you'd be nuts to engage in that kind of activity with anyone that you don't complicitly trust because I'm sure your worried about someone crying rape after they've already started up or finished... It's definitely a possibility that they could but like in a lot of cases with rape it turns into a he siad she said...
How can you expect someone to act on an uncommunicated desire? Especially as by today's legal precedents a women can retract consent, after explicitly giving it, in min-coitus, without needing to tell the man she has retracted consent. Once consent is retracted the man is then "raping her" without even being aware of it.
IE
Girl (pre-coitus): "Baby bang my brains out, f*ck me hard"
Man: Ok honey, <initiates penetration>
20~30 minutes later
Man: That was great baby
Girl: <says nothing>
Next day:
Girl: he raped me.
That will get you thrown in jail, your reputation ruined and permanent place on a sex offenders registry that will prevent you from getting any high paying job.
You can have a video tape of her screaming about how much she enjoys it, and it wouldn't matter. Under current rules of evidence the tape wouldn't even be admissible in court. Your only defense is your word that she gave you consent. She merely needs to say "He was so aggressive that I was afraid to tell him to stop" and play the female privilege card.
And if your in the US Military, she doesn't even need to do that.
Please do respond feminists.
Gender Equality would mean the man can consent to sex, blow his load and be able to accuse the woman of raping him.
Clearly, the Genders are identical, one and the same, and no difference between them.
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Bahamut.Kara
Serveur: Bahamut
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Posts: 3544
By Bahamut.Kara 2013-07-12 07:44:09
84,767 women reported rape in 2010
In 2009 only 25% of rape cases concluded in an arrest. Let alone a conviction.
Please do respond feminists.
Gender Equality would mean the man can consent to sex, blow his load and be able to accuse the woman of raping him.
Clearly, the Genders are identical, one and the same, and no difference between them.
Gender equality would be a man consenting to sex, then saying no he didn't want sex, and his partner continuing until the partner was satisfied. It would have nothing to do with him orgasming or not.
It would depend on the state if it would be called rape or unwanted sexual attention or sexual assault.
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/10/15/world/africa/zimbabwe-sperm
http://www.dreamindemon.com/2009/02/02/janice-mccarl-is-a-pain-in-the-***/
Then there are minor males who are coerced or forced into sexual relationships with their teachers, that is also rape and there are women in prison for this.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/01/courtney-sue-reschke-sex-with-minor_n_3529703.html
Women can try to bring charges of rape against a man after she regrets the sex but very few result in conviction. Since this is a he said she said thing.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2286864/Jordan-Johnson-trial-Former-Montana-star-quarterback-NOT-GUILTY-raping-woman-telling-jurors-said-no.html
http://gawker.com/5973081/california-court-says-woman-wasnt-technically-raped-because-she-isnt-married
Then there are some stupid judgment calls because of statuary law. Two women having sex, one 18 one under 18, and the 18 year old getting charged as a sexual offender. This happens with men and women, as well. Where both are within very close age ranges, it's consensual and parents press charges.
http://www.today.com/news/florida-teen-charged-relationship-minor-mulls-plea-deal-6C10042725
Unlike the assertions being tossed in this thread rape convictions do not happen all the time.
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Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 64
By Phoenix.Melpomenae 2013-07-12 08:11:59
http://globalgrind.com/news/florida-teen-fights-back-after-expulsion-felony-charges-same-sex-lesbian-relationship-photos
Women do get charged with sex crimes, and this is one rather famous case right now (for good reason)
She's looking at the registry if convicted.
Quote: Men have rape and control fantasies, does this mean they are rapists? No.
Incorrect, according to feminists all men are rapists. A man looking at a women is raping her in his mind and is therefor committing rape and should be castrated. Of course if he's an attractive man, then he should instead meet her outside her place so she can exercise her "girl power" and be "sex positive" and "liberated".
This is so *** silly. You don't even deserve to be replied to, but I had to point out just how much of a logical fallacy this is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy
Quote: Association fallacies are a special case of red herring, and can be based on an appeal to emotion.
But how can this be!?! I mean, you said this lovely piece of logic.. Quote: This is why you don't debate with a feminist. The moment they turn it into an emotional argument you can't win because you can't make them feel they "lost". Best tactic is to just ignore them.
Washington state gets rid of "sexist language"Quote: In Washington state, the word "freshman" is out. And "first-year student" is in. In total, 40,000 words have been changed as part of an effort to rid state statutes of gender-biased language.
The bill, signed into law earlier in the year by Democratic Gov. Jay Inslee, went into effect this week.
And it was no small task. "This was a much larger effort than I had envisioned. Mankind means man and woman," Democratic state Sen. Jeanne Kohl-Welles of Seattle told Reuters.
"Fisherman" is now a "fisher." "Penmanship" is called "handwriting." And "manhole cover" is, well, still "manhole cover." Some words don’t have an easy replacement.
Others do: "His" is now “his and hers.” "Clergyman" is now "clergy." "Journeyman plumber" is now “journey-level plumber,” according to the Daily Mail.
According to Reuters, Washington is the fourth state to officially remove gender-biased language from the law. Others are Florida, North Carolina and Illinois. Nine other states are considering similar gender-neutral laws.
"Words matter," Liz Watson, a National Women's Law Center senior adviser, told Reuters. "This is important in changing hearts and minds."
France recently officially banned the term "mademoiselle" from official documents. The Gallic term means "miss," and French officials contended it forced women to acknowledge their marital status.
The French also bid adieu to "maiden name," which they dismissed as "archaic." They should know: Paris only recently got rid of a law that banned women from wearing pants. an awesome read about about a policy that is as idiotic as it is harmful. But what do you expect in a country where the president - the sole personification of elected authority- claims to be a feminist?`
I guess they just forgot to write the VAWA law and all the other domestic violence shelter rules in gender neutral language. Must've slipped through the cracks
Also, words only seem to matter to these c*nts when they are directed toward women, but when men are the targets, they have no problem making posters, billboards and all kinds of ads accusing MALES of being rapist, perverts, wife beaters, abusers, etc
but in the end i wonder:
Will menstruation now be personstruation?
Also will they outlaw ladies night at the local bar?
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