Guillotine Question

ya i eat Tentacle Sushi. eating meat really is not a good idea for me i die enough as it is.

Well he is LV73, so...His exp mobs would be...Sea Puks? Lol. And they're not particularly evasive.

imps mostly...... god i hate imps.

Interesting statement. Though they're really only tied for 2nd most accurate with SAM and WAR if you don't count Hasso for either job and if Aggressor is down.

Most DRKs /SAM at higher levels anyway so that's really a moot point. And Souleater gives ACC+25 too, can't count JAs like Aggressor if they're not up 100% of the time.

Don't forget Diabolic eye >.>

No, eating meat is a bad idea for you b/c ur acc would be terrible.

If you don't increase acc in gear, then you def need to be eatting pizza. Sushi is such a bad food choice for 2handed users now.

Your over 70, so you do have access to seigan, and while imps do suck, just play smart and you can increase your damage output by quite a bit and still not suffer extra deaths.

And while we're on this topic...
SAM with Polearm outDDs SAM with GK in merits anyway, so a lot of SAMs use Polearm. This, of course, skews ACC more in DRK's favor.
And sometimes WAR uses Axe...

http://www.ffxiah.com/item_sets.php?id=94882

i don't think my acc is that bad

Didn't take the time to read everyone's comments but it seems you have some generally good advice before you. I just want to reinstate that assuring maximum contact on any WS with more than 2 hits is key factor in max damage. If you have a built or food that helps assure this then you can throw in more STR/mods or eat meat depending on how you do it.

Wait,you have Aurum legs but use Black cuisses to ws ?

Shouldnt you WS in Aurum Legs and eat some meat instead of sushis/pizza ?

http://www.ffxiah.com/item_sets.php?id=89740

Here's my Guillotine build. I found ATK helped way more than just pure STR, so I went w/ STR ATK build, eating meat. I keep up w/ very well geared DRG's on BIRDs, only SAM's that can keep up are Hagun 6-hit SAMs, if you're not 6-hit SAM you won't keep up even w/ a Hagun. Side note for those who don't know, birds are weak to peircing, but I still keep up w/ very well geared DRGs, if they're not well geared, they lose poorly against my build even.

Unless you're packing some powerful +ATT/+STR endgame type gear, don't underestimate the AF feet. MND makes a sizable difference in Guillotine damage. Whenever possible, I always try to throw out an Absorb-MND just before using Guillotine and it bumps it up a nice bit.

AF Feet are a good ws macro item til you get something stronger without any minuses on it. Not endgame worthy, but for a DRK on a budget who might not have access to endgame areas they work wonders. I don't have any specific math to back it up, but I can tell the difference when I use AF Feet and when I don't.

Askar feet would be better than AF feet, due to how FSTR is calculated.

If you want a solid Guillotine feet the list (in no order):
* Ares (highest acc)
* Heca (highest str)
* Amir (basically ares -1, nice feet and easy to get)
* AF+1 (mix of STR and MND)

Rutter's, Askar, rse and NQ AF (in roughly that order) are also 'options' but the best ones.

DRK main has Latent Effect: Moron, which is usually triggered by being Elvaan, Sandorian, or RDM 75.

Aurum feet are the most versatile foot piece for both TP and WS that a DRK can get a hold of. More accuracy than Homam and +5 attack makes the 1% Haste debatable (in before Haste>All, eight second weapons have their differences, its still a better WS piece, fights less than 30 seconds you might steal a killshot for 'higher' DPS but theres no real gain, break about 50% haste and its Homam or GTFO, etc).

In a leveling sense, Marine Boots are better than anything just for at-level availability; no Aurum or Askar or Amir or anything else til nigh 75. Same goes for Savage Gaiters for Mithra. Six more levels til Thick Sollerets which are marginally better and free up the cash for your 'Berk.

WS in Black Cuisses or GTFO. If you can't find accuracy elsewhere urdoinitwrong. Aurum legs are nice, but push towards 'Accuracy Saturation' where you can't find better Raw Damage pieces elsewhere. The MKD helm causes this too, and you can WS in non-accuracy bodies like Plastron or Byrnie+1.

Yes, you can have too much accuracy. Learn the math and love it.

Do the math, and DRK is flat-out one of the most accurate jobs in the game just on gear availability, the 2h buff, and JAs. Its a bucket of irony after years of whiff jokes.

Souleater is +20 btw, not +25. Diabolic Eye can be merited to a 5 minute recast with 3 minute duration, meaning it meshes perfectly if you wasted the merits on Souleater Recast, but Last Resort is the better recast to merit to keep the Desperate Blows comin'.

DRK is not Bird-friendly, Pizza is our God. Go to MJSP, avoid the crowd, and rape face with a real food and capped accuracy with a COR throwing you an extra Red Curry's amount of attack on a good roll.

The accuracy on Aurum Feet is roughly equal to that on Homam Feet... saying that the 5atk is better than 1% Haste is like saying that Denali Bonnet > Walahra Turban <_<

There's no "real gain" from other stats either if you say that Haste doesn't have any; every stat has its limitations.

DRK can spam mithkabobs on birds and have capped or near capped accuracy, especially with Diabolic Eye/Hasso available <_<!

We just had this discussion on Alla. Haste makes haste bettaaar.



Already covered that Raen. 5 Attack is better than 1% haste below a certain threshold, which is pretty much out the window if you have a WHM/RDM+BRD or if you're wearing other Homam pieces.

Same deal with having 3/5+ Homam. Its a fat stack of accuracy to let you wear even more haste in other places normally relegated to accuracy (Swift/V.Belt). Therefore Homam Haste begets more Haste.

5 Attack isn't better than 1% Haste at 0% => 1% Haste <_<

Increase from Haste: 1 / (100 - 1) = 1/99 = ~1.01% damage

Increase from 5 Attack: ~5/450 = ~1.1% DoT only... using a TP/WS ratio of 0.5, ~0.56% damage.

Not to mention that it'll never be 0% => 1% in this case, it'll be minimum 4% => 5%, or

1 / (100 - 5) = 1/95 = 1.05%~ damage.

What Attack would you need for 5 Attack to produce more damage? Since it has to produce enough DoT to overcome the WS frequency increase of Haste, you'll need 2.1%~ damage (1.05% / 0.5[the tp/ws ratio]).

5/x = 0.0210~
5/0.0210 = x
x = 238

Unless your attack is below 238 (slightly higher in reality due to level correction), 1% Haste is always better than 5 Attack.

Except you skipped something: Buffs. Same thing that reinforces the 'you don't have to cap accuracy on Guillo to increase damage' argument Shinta put up.

24% from merited Last Resort
21%+ from Chaos Roll
14% from Blackened Frog (uncapped as Mithra, barely makes a difference below)

5 attack becomes 7-9 attack easily, and you admit to skipping level correction.

So at Mamool, you need at least 750 attack to cap on an undebuffed mob. 700 is a good average for me, for a 1.611 cRatio. 708 attack is a 1.634 cRatio for a 1.4% increase in damage.

Even at 700 attack, 5 more attack from gear with full buffs is 1.4% more damage.

1% more haste is going to give you 1.4% more 'damage' at...

x/(x-1)=0.014
x = 72.4

72% to 73% haste. 100-72.4
~28% haste

Hence my 'Once you get Haste and March, put the Homam on' stands.

However: We've already discussed how 1% haste is effectively negated by delay defaulting on a mob change, especially with a proper /autoattack groove. It might gain you 'DPS' by stealing a killshot, but will not gain you whole swings over the average fight like with 1-handers. Even swinging at a mob that never dies, you only gain 1 WS every twenty minutes going from 50% to 51% haste.

You're ignoring the fact that Haste increases both DoT and WS frequency whereas Attack purely increases DoT, so it's only increasing half of the equation.

Your 1.4% figure is therefore 0.7% (presuming a 50/50 tp/ws ratio for simplicity's sake).

You can ignore Chaos Roll's effects and such as long as you use non-multiplicative Attack in the equation, because you get:

(x * z)/(y * z), where;

x = increase in Attack
y = old non-multiplicative Attack
z = "attack multipliers" such as Berserk/Chaos Roll which are constant outside of gear/food so don't matter.

Mathematically,

(x * z)/(y * z) = xz/yz = x/y

Therefore increase by (x * z)/(y * z) = increase by x/y.

So you don't have to worry about using the multiplicative attack figures.

Level correction is difficult to model because it is no longer general. The only time 5 Attack will beat 1% Haste in TP phase at 75 is in a situation you won't want to be meleeing anyway (95 mob without buffs, etc).

1% Haste isn't negated by that -_-! 100000 Attack is negated by a mob having 10 HP, 100000 STR is negated by a mob having 10 HP, 50000 accuracy is negated by you hitting the mob -without-, hence not gaining a hit relatively, etc.

All stats are relative gains. None are perfect. You are right in thinking that Haste sometimes doesn't work.

NO STATS ARE PERFECT.

You can't argue in favour of another stat by saying that Haste doesn't work because it just doesn't work :/ all stats are flawed.



No. If you gain an extra hit relative to 50% Haste (which can easily happen in a non-vacuum), you only need have this happen 5 times in order to gain an extra WS. How often will 2 acc give you an extra hit? Once per 95 hits? How often will 10 attack "save you" a hit? Not very often. Etc etc.

Haste is 100% entirely about that extra hit. Thats where the increase comes from. With minimal haste increases, that extra hit never happens. If you do have an increase, its from 'overtaking' as illustrated by the python simulation, which is just stealing damage from someone else or overkilling. Something is wrong if you're meleeing a mob for longer than a minute, let alone four minutes to gain that extra hit.

You can't hit a mob 10.2 times. Mob dies, delay resets even on /autotarget, you start over on gaining those extra hits.

But thats okay Raen. You completely tossed my realistic example of how 5 attack is more than 5 attack, even at 700 attack on a level 83 mob. It does matter, I showed you it mattered, but you just have to prove me wrong because you assume I'm wrong.

Yes because every mob in the game has 2-5k HP and bugger all defence.

I'll agree, but that extra hit is relative. It needn't be absolute. When you compare stats to each other, you have to consider relative impacts... absolute impacts aren't useful.

Relative impact: I have 10 more Attack than before, giving me an x% improvement in damage.
Absolute impact: I have 10 more Attack than before!

Absolute isn't useful here.



It doesn't have to be an absolute extra hit. In the situation there where you are "stealing" the hit, you have produced one extra hit and the other DD has produced one less. You are producing relatively more damage.

Bolded overkilling because overkilling is the problem with atk/str and why they are limited. If you want to look at them in terms of an absolute increase as well, they are not useful until they take you one less hit to kill the mob.

Note also, if you "overkill" using Haste, you still gain TP. You don't from atk/str!



Something is wrong on your average monster if you melee it enough for str/atk to give you an extra hit, or if you need that extra +5acc to land an extra hit, etc etc.



No, but we don't exist in a vacuum. Depending on other people's damages, you can gain or lose relatively.



I haven't tossed anything :/ I've just used math to show that 5atk is never better at 75 than 1% Haste in a realistic scenario you would want to melee in. Yes, it will be better if you fight Kirin nonbuffed but who honestly would do that?

If you mean the chaos roll/berserk/other multiplicative effects, it doesn't matter at all, as I showed using algebra.

Using actual numbers,

Say we were calculating the impact of 10 Attack on an 100 Attack base,

10/100 = 0.1.

Now let's multiply top and bottom by Berserk's 25%.

(10 * 1.25)/(100 * 1.25) = ?
12.5/125 = 0.1.

It's gonna stay constant. Multipliers can simply be cancelled when calculating relative impact.

AF+1 feet are better than Heca for Guillotine(just an fyi). I have both and tested them. You shouldn't even be considering Amir imo. Put the acc in other slots where you won't lose as many WS mods.

Wow, so much math in there. Don't get me wrong, I know my math. But its a game, test and tried do what works. and yeah Argettio doesn't know what s/he is talking about ^^.

He never said that Heca were better than AF+1 :( Amir Boots are perfectly acceptable option for the DRK without the above yet too... Heca is sky and Suzy can be a *** and AF+1 materials don't always put out, so it's understandable.

Try reading...

I said in no order!

I simply listed the top few feet peices for Guillotine. Amir is debatable, but if you are fighting truely evasive mobs and you have already maxed out your acc in other slots, then they are situationally suitable.

And if Amir shouldn't be on the list, then neither should Ares, as they are basically the same but with slightly high numbers (7 acc and attack vs 6 acc and 5 att).

I did, which is why I said it was just an fyi. Most people would see highest STR and go for that over AF+1.

As for Amir you can get more accuracy elsewhere without sacrificing your mods(unless we're pretending the player without N Feet has N Head or legs?).

a) I wasn't quoting you
b) Every DRK should know Guillotine isn't all about the STR
c) Mamool NINs and THF need ~500 accuracy to cap, Ixion needs ~520 accuracy to cap. Even with sushi thats ~420-430 base accuracy. You aren't going to reach those sorts of numbers with Heca or AF+1.

In my max acc Guillo set I have 430 acc without Diabolic Eye(which would be saved for THF mamools), food, OR shitty acc feet. I can get that up to 534 without acc songs and without dropping some of the best mod feet in the game for acc I don't need(also, still includes Rajas). This means using Souleater but anything you need 534 acc to hit probably needs Souleater to take a real hit anyway(unless you're buffed to hell and then it doesn't really matter).

You can keep making excuses for acc feet if you want but there's no real point imo.